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They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncount

They're safe because their police make the US police look human. The amount of ways you can accidentally end up in prison with some extreme sentences is uncountable. I'd recommend watching any of the traveling channels to see their warnings on it for foreigners. Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe when juxtaposed with, for example, the US where you might spend the night in a drunk tank if you're rowdy, or sent safely on your way with a loved one if you're cooperative. Through extremely tough laws streets become safer. It's opposite most of America in the sense that we have a large degree of leniency built into our laws that seems to be getting more lenient every election cycle. Stuff like no bail, letting people off with warnings, "court dates" that you're responsible for showing up to would NEVER fly in Japan. Statistically criminals will commit crimes again if let out even on minor infractions. Japan seems to have realized this and capitalized on it. Speaking of capital...their capital punishment system is pretty crazy. Their prisons are also draconian even when compared to the garbage prisons we have in the US. Their closest approximation may be Russian prison in it's style of punishment. The sheer level of fear people in Japan must live with when faced with these punishments is clearly enough to keep society polite. Japan is one of the ultimate "tough on crime" examples in a western-approaching nation...and it works. Well. People have this idyllic view of Japan for some reason and it's understandable why. From a distance it's beautiful. I'm not convinced the tradeoffs to achieve their society are worth it (extremely tough anti-crime law, collectivism, salarymanship, etc). Moreover, I don't think the people who idealize (really, fetishize) Japan want these changes either.

ekianjo 4y ago
a long comment which says you have no idea what you are talking about.
diob 4y ago
I have a feeling you've never actually been there. They do have an issue with forced confessions, but you're much more likely to be arrested or worse (shot) in the USA for no reason. But beyond that, this is an over simplification of something that stems from multiple things, not some singular root reason. And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#Comparison_to_OECD_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for why your take is absolutely bonkers. We have the highest incarceration rate by far, so why aren't we safer than Japan?
- version_five 4y ago
  > And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#Comparison_to_OECD_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for why your take is absolutely bonkers. This doesn't refute the OP's claims, and I think could support them. OP is saying (to paraphrase) that Japan's tough on crime stance is a deterrent, and so there is less crime, and so fewer people incarcerated. Also, I don't think a reasonable person is worried about getting arrested or shot going to the US. I'm sure I might be possible to make it happen, but as a Canadian, I have never been worried about either of those things going to the US.
  - jeromegv 4y ago
    You might want to redefine what a reasonable person is. There are tons of Canadians afraid of the police but it’s very likely they don’t look physically like you. You have to get out of your bubble to find them.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - diob 4y ago
    I met multiple individuals on my last trip to Australia who commented on how they felt extremely unsafe in the USA (hearing gunshots at night, seeing shootings on the news). Some were native Australians, others were from places abroad, such as Japan.
    - version_five 4y ago
      Have you been to the US? Do you feel that way? Definitely the news tries to frightened everyone into watching more. I don't think that's too reflective of reality.
      - ckw 4y ago
Aeolun 4y ago
What bull. It’s certainly true that the Japanese legal system is draconian, but if you are a marginally decent citizen you will never encounter the police in your life (beyond their normally helpful role as public servants). If there were any punishments for public intoxication half of Tokyo would be locked up. What is probably punishable is public intoxication in the western way (e.g. agressive displays, public intimidation and other obnoxious behavior). The streets are safe here because nobody feels the need to make them unsafe. Punishment from the legal system doesn’t factor into it. I mean, I guess to some extend it does. If you are not interested in keeping the streets safe, and add to the feeling of danger/unsafety, the system will come down on you like a hammer.
deleted 4y ago
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airza 4y ago
Showing a causal relationship here would involve explaining why many other western countries with much more relaxed policing laws also seem to be safer than the US. I would guess a more likely reason is that more foot traffic reduces crime. Also purely anecdotally, I have been let off with a warning in Japan before; certainly their prisons are draconian (or so I’ve heard). I’m also not sure how you could be arrested there for public intoxication; I’ve only seen police confront a drunk person who was actively trying to fight someone. Compared to countless workers or college kids passed out on the sidewalk…
- eru 4y ago
  > Showing a causal relationship here would involve explaining why many other western countries with much more relaxed policing laws also seem to be safer than the US. I would guess a more likely reason is that more foot traffic reduces crime. Just looking at the US (and those other countries) over time as well would also be interesting. If memory serves right, violent crime in the US increased between 1970s to 1990s and has since decreased. I don't think that development maps well to pedestrian traffic?
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    > If memory serves right, violent crime in the US increased between 1970s to 1990s and has since decreased. From 1960 to the mid 1990s crime rates in the US almost quadrupled. They’re now at about double what they were in 1960[1]. People adopted measures to avoid crime. They left urban areas, greatly increased security measures of all types, dropped the assumption that most people were generally trustworthy. Without those measures of adaptation things would not have improved. Those are costs and they’re ongoing. In the 1960s and 2020s the US had large scale urban riots and each time people learned the lesson that they couldn’t trust the government to protect them and their property from rioters. But if you live far from dense concentrations of people riots are very unlikely. Thus suburbanisation. [1] https://www.strongnation.org/about/our-organization/our-history https://www.strongnation.org/about/our-organization/our-hist...
IncandescentGas 4y ago
> Statistically criminals will commit crimes again if let out even on minor infractions. Japan seems to have realized this and capitalized on it. What a worthless bit of nonsensical rhetoric.
3np 4y ago
TF are you on about? > Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe Public intoxication is not a crime (or likely to get you into trouble) in the first place. Stay out of operating vehicles or heavy machinery and being intoxicated is not going to get you into trouble.
ilyt 4y ago
That's almost uniquely USA (and 3rd world countries) problem, many EU cities are just as safe but don't enjoy such charming culture like Tokyo
another_story 4y ago
Japan is safe in part because theyre culturally homogenous. That culture drills in a sense of obligation to the point of being oppressive. Obligation of the children to the parents, the parents to the company and even the company to society at large. It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Then there's the sense of shame when you fail to live up to that obligation.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Also at the expense of individualism. The freedom to think differently gives us many different issues in the western world. But I still think it's worth it. Making the most of one's life is important. Also I don't think law enforcement is the biggest factor in reducing crime. It doesn't eliminate the need for people to commit crimes, it just moves it to less policed areas. The bigger problem is disenfranchised and low-opportunity groups. If all the chances you have in life are to be a minimum wage burger flipper then it's easy to become disenfranchised and turn to crime that does offer you chances. Increasing the risk will also increase the potential rewards as the war on drugs and prohibition have shown. I think our cities in Europe are safer because people have more economic equality and a better welfare safety net for when things really go wrong. And our prisons are a lot milder than the US's or Japan's. Especially in the exceptionally safe Scandinavian countries. Not sure how Japan deals with welfare but I wouldn't consider this just a law enforcement issue.
  - JamesianP 4y ago
    US culture doesn't trap people in minimum wage jobs their entire lives. Even fast food places have raises and promotions. Maybe you're being hyperbolic there? It does generally require people to work and try, which can appear impossible if they lack a working parent or other role model to help them believe they can do it. This is not something welfare solves though. It possibly makes it worse. Something like shop classes in schools (which used to exist) and apprenticeships would be a direct solution, because as we constantly hear, the jobs are there looking for people.
JohnBooty 4y ago
Any US/Japan comparison that focuses solely on their legal system (or any other single aspect) while ignoring all of the other massive differences is completely disconnected from reality. Relative to the US, Japan is ethnically and culturally much more homogeneous. The culture has an intense focus on communalism, respect and duty as well as a host of other differences. For example, cleanliness is much more highly valued. Communal values are often said to have been shaped by the much more frequent natural disasters suffered by Japan. Healthcare is much more affordable and accessible. They have rather different taboos and attitudes around sex. And so on. Since you apparently believe that a draconian justice system is the primary (sole?) secret to a peaceful society, you might also want to broaden your research to consider countries whose cultures are much closer to America's, have justice systems are much more lenient than America's, and still manage to have lower crime rates. Because there are a lot of them. I have not spent time in Japan, so feel free to discount this. But I suspect the causal relationship is much more likely to be: communalism --> (low crime + harsh penalties for violating societal norms) Than it is to be: harsh penalties --> low crime
throwawaylinux 4y ago
Do you have any evidence showing that "tough on crime" laws and policing result in safer cities? The standard liberal dogma at least says that they don't.
wesapien 4y ago
Harsh punishment exists because of their Overton window. The demographics that matter (child producing families) would make that trade off easily.

ekianjo 4y ago

a long comment which says you have no idea what you are talking about.

diob 4y ago

I have a feeling you've never actually been there. They do have an issue with forced confessions, but you're much more likely to be arrested or worse (shot) in the USA for no reason. But beyond that, this is an over simplification of something that stems from multiple things, not some singular root reason. And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#Comparison_to_OECD_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for why your take is absolutely bonkers. We have the highest incarceration rate by far, so why aren't we safer than Japan?

version_five 4y ago
> And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_incarceration_rate_with_other_countries#Comparison_to_OECD_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for why your take is absolutely bonkers. This doesn't refute the OP's claims, and I think could support them. OP is saying (to paraphrase) that Japan's tough on crime stance is a deterrent, and so there is less crime, and so fewer people incarcerated. Also, I don't think a reasonable person is worried about getting arrested or shot going to the US. I'm sure I might be possible to make it happen, but as a Canadian, I have never been worried about either of those things going to the US.
- jeromegv 4y ago
  You might want to redefine what a reasonable person is. There are tons of Canadians afraid of the police but it’s very likely they don’t look physically like you. You have to get out of your bubble to find them.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- diob 4y ago
  I met multiple individuals on my last trip to Australia who commented on how they felt extremely unsafe in the USA (hearing gunshots at night, seeing shootings on the news). Some were native Australians, others were from places abroad, such as Japan.
  - version_five 4y ago
    Have you been to the US? Do you feel that way? Definitely the news tries to frightened everyone into watching more. I don't think that's too reflective of reality.
    - ckw 4y ago

Aeolun 4y ago

What bull. It’s certainly true that the Japanese legal system is draconian, but if you are a marginally decent citizen you will never encounter the police in your life (beyond their normally helpful role as public servants). If there were any punishments for public intoxication half of Tokyo would be locked up. What is probably punishable is public intoxication in the western way (e.g. agressive displays, public intimidation and other obnoxious behavior). The streets are safe here because nobody feels the need to make them unsafe. Punishment from the legal system doesn’t factor into it. I mean, I guess to some extend it does. If you are not interested in keeping the streets safe, and add to the feeling of danger/unsafety, the system will come down on you like a hammer.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

airza 4y ago

Showing a causal relationship here would involve explaining why many other western countries with much more relaxed policing laws also seem to be safer than the US. I would guess a more likely reason is that more foot traffic reduces crime. Also purely anecdotally, I have been let off with a warning in Japan before; certainly their prisons are draconian (or so I’ve heard). I’m also not sure how you could be arrested there for public intoxication; I’ve only seen police confront a drunk person who was actively trying to fight someone. Compared to countless workers or college kids passed out on the sidewalk…

eru 4y ago
> Showing a causal relationship here would involve explaining why many other western countries with much more relaxed policing laws also seem to be safer than the US. I would guess a more likely reason is that more foot traffic reduces crime. Just looking at the US (and those other countries) over time as well would also be interesting. If memory serves right, violent crime in the US increased between 1970s to 1990s and has since decreased. I don't think that development maps well to pedestrian traffic?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  > If memory serves right, violent crime in the US increased between 1970s to 1990s and has since decreased. From 1960 to the mid 1990s crime rates in the US almost quadrupled. They’re now at about double what they were in 1960[1]. People adopted measures to avoid crime. They left urban areas, greatly increased security measures of all types, dropped the assumption that most people were generally trustworthy. Without those measures of adaptation things would not have improved. Those are costs and they’re ongoing. In the 1960s and 2020s the US had large scale urban riots and each time people learned the lesson that they couldn’t trust the government to protect them and their property from rioters. But if you live far from dense concentrations of people riots are very unlikely. Thus suburbanisation. [1] https://www.strongnation.org/about/our-organization/our-history https://www.strongnation.org/about/our-organization/our-hist...

IncandescentGas 4y ago

> Statistically criminals will commit crimes again if let out even on minor infractions. Japan seems to have realized this and capitalized on it. What a worthless bit of nonsensical rhetoric.

3np 4y ago

TF are you on about? > Punishments for something even as simple as public intoxication can be comparatively severe Public intoxication is not a crime (or likely to get you into trouble) in the first place. Stay out of operating vehicles or heavy machinery and being intoxicated is not going to get you into trouble.

ilyt 4y ago

That's almost uniquely USA (and 3rd world countries) problem, many EU cities are just as safe but don't enjoy such charming culture like Tokyo

another_story 4y ago

Japan is safe in part because theyre culturally homogenous. That culture drills in a sense of obligation to the point of being oppressive. Obligation of the children to the parents, the parents to the company and even the company to society at large. It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Then there's the sense of shame when you fail to live up to that obligation.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Also at the expense of individualism. The freedom to think differently gives us many different issues in the western world. But I still think it's worth it. Making the most of one's life is important. Also I don't think law enforcement is the biggest factor in reducing crime. It doesn't eliminate the need for people to commit crimes, it just moves it to less policed areas. The bigger problem is disenfranchised and low-opportunity groups. If all the chances you have in life are to be a minimum wage burger flipper then it's easy to become disenfranchised and turn to crime that does offer you chances. Increasing the risk will also increase the potential rewards as the war on drugs and prohibition have shown. I think our cities in Europe are safer because people have more economic equality and a better welfare safety net for when things really go wrong. And our prisons are a lot milder than the US's or Japan's. Especially in the exceptionally safe Scandinavian countries. Not sure how Japan deals with welfare but I wouldn't consider this just a law enforcement issue.
- JamesianP 4y ago
  US culture doesn't trap people in minimum wage jobs their entire lives. Even fast food places have raises and promotions. Maybe you're being hyperbolic there? It does generally require people to work and try, which can appear impossible if they lack a working parent or other role model to help them believe they can do it. This is not something welfare solves though. It possibly makes it worse. Something like shop classes in schools (which used to exist) and apprenticeships would be a direct solution, because as we constantly hear, the jobs are there looking for people.

JohnBooty 4y ago

Any US/Japan comparison that focuses solely on their legal system (or any other single aspect) while ignoring all of the other massive differences is completely disconnected from reality. Relative to the US, Japan is ethnically and culturally much more homogeneous. The culture has an intense focus on communalism, respect and duty as well as a host of other differences. For example, cleanliness is much more highly valued. Communal values are often said to have been shaped by the much more frequent natural disasters suffered by Japan. Healthcare is much more affordable and accessible. They have rather different taboos and attitudes around sex. And so on. Since you apparently believe that a draconian justice system is the primary (sole?) secret to a peaceful society, you might also want to broaden your research to consider countries whose cultures are much closer to America's, have justice systems are much more lenient than America's, and still manage to have lower crime rates. Because there are a lot of them. I have not spent time in Japan, so feel free to discount this. But I suspect the causal relationship is much more likely to be: communalism --> (low crime + harsh penalties for violating societal norms) Than it is to be: harsh penalties --> low crime

throwawaylinux 4y ago

Do you have any evidence showing that "tough on crime" laws and policing result in safer cities? The standard liberal dogma at least says that they don't.

wesapien 4y ago

Harsh punishment exists because of their Overton window. The demographics that matter (child producing families) would make that trade off easily.