3 ms·

Right, but you got fucked over by private landlord, that just happened to use some service to coordinate it The service might be the tool used to perpetrate th

by ilyt 4y ago

Right, but you got fucked over by private landlord, that just happened to use some service to coordinate it The service might be the tool used to perpetrate the problem but regulating corporations won't help much here, if they are gone landlords will find a different way to coordinate

aaomidi 4y ago
You’re not wrong. We should get rid of landlords and replace them with housing cooperatives.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  > We should get rid of landlords How? Please elaborate. In places that did this, usually a new set of more evil landlords took over after mass killing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Reform_Movement_(China) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Reform_Movement_(China) "Landlords had their land confiscated and they were subjected mass killing by the CCP and former tenants,[2][3] with the estimated death toll ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions.[4][5][6]" This should probably be required reading for everyone before they comment on housing: "Housing Breaks People’s Brains" https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing-supply-shortage-crisis-2022/672240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing... The problem is a simple lack of supply not evil landlords. Not convinced? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/02/as-national-eviction-ban-expires-a-look-at-who-rents-and-who-owns-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/02/as-national... > In fact, fewer than one-fifth of rental properties are owned by for-profit businesses of any kind. Most rental properties – about seven-in-ten – are owned by individuals, who typically own just one or two properties, according to 2018 census data. And landlords have complained about being unable to meet their obligations, such as mortgage payments, property taxes and repair bills, because of a falloff in rent payments. Edit: And of course, a comment with references is riddled with downvotes with no responses :), so predictable , while the original with an emotional "get rid of a class of people" stays positive.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    Nobody is arguing for mass killings of landlords, so your comment is getting the minimum-effort responses it deserves.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      Interesting that you thought I’m suggesting mass killing. I think honestly you should look into why you thought that’s what I’m talking about?
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    > How? Please elaborate. Ignoring all other factors, it's quite easy. The landloard-tennant social relation is able to exist because the legal system has a system of laws backed the threat of violence to secure and perpetuate its existence. To deconstruct the social relation as such, one would need to catalog federal, state, and local code to identify which clauses establish houses, apartments, condos, etc as private property and remove them. Voila! the legal construction of landlords no longer exists. without the threat of state violence, landlords cease to become a social category. If this sounds terrible to you, please refer to the first clause of this comment.
    - indymike 4y ago
      > The landloard-tennant social relation is able to exist because the legal system has a system of laws backed the threat of violence to secure and perpetuate its existence. So, if no one can own the property, then high rent will be solved with a state monopoly?
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        I think it's a little bit of a false dichotomy and a deficit of creativity that the only two conceivable ownership models for housing have to be private or public. There are an infinite number of ways to conceive of housing, than those two. Just try.
- googlryas 4y ago
  What's stopping anyone?
  - ensignavenger 4y ago
    Most folks aren't interested in housing cooperatives- too much work, they want to be able to move without strings, etc.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    It is always easy to ask others to do the moral thing.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    Since credit and money creation is privatised, it is only available to for-profit ventures. Good luck obtaining credit to build an apartment building, if all you have is a contract signed by 100 people promising to take on 1/100th of the debt.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      Reverse this - get 100 people to take on construction loans to bud a co-operative to live in, and then refinance after completion. You'll have no problems - except people don't want to take the risk of owning.
    - zajio1am 4y ago
      Housing cooperative can just take mortgage for the building. That is commonly done here when apartment houses are sold as a whole. It is simpler to make one big mortgage for cooperative instead if 100 smaller mortgages for individual flat owners.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    The ones that own rental properties have no reason to change business models and no competition (like say city-build-and-owned rental apartments)
- zajio1am 4y ago
  Housing cooperatives are not really alternatives to landlords, they are alternatives to condominiums.

by ilyt 4y ago

aaomidi 4y ago

You’re not wrong. We should get rid of landlords and replace them with housing cooperatives.

cscurmudgeon 4y ago
> We should get rid of landlords How? Please elaborate. In places that did this, usually a new set of more evil landlords took over after mass killing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Reform_Movement_(China) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Reform_Movement_(China) "Landlords had their land confiscated and they were subjected mass killing by the CCP and former tenants,[2][3] with the estimated death toll ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions.[4][5][6]" This should probably be required reading for everyone before they comment on housing: "Housing Breaks People’s Brains" https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing-supply-shortage-crisis-2022/672240/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing... The problem is a simple lack of supply not evil landlords. Not convinced? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/02/as-national-eviction-ban-expires-a-look-at-who-rents-and-who-owns-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/02/as-national... > In fact, fewer than one-fifth of rental properties are owned by for-profit businesses of any kind. Most rental properties – about seven-in-ten – are owned by individuals, who typically own just one or two properties, according to 2018 census data. And landlords have complained about being unable to meet their obligations, such as mortgage payments, property taxes and repair bills, because of a falloff in rent payments. Edit: And of course, a comment with references is riddled with downvotes with no responses :), so predictable , while the original with an emotional "get rid of a class of people" stays positive.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Nobody is arguing for mass killings of landlords, so your comment is getting the minimum-effort responses it deserves.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Interesting that you thought I’m suggesting mass killing. I think honestly you should look into why you thought that’s what I’m talking about?
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  > How? Please elaborate. Ignoring all other factors, it's quite easy. The landloard-tennant social relation is able to exist because the legal system has a system of laws backed the threat of violence to secure and perpetuate its existence. To deconstruct the social relation as such, one would need to catalog federal, state, and local code to identify which clauses establish houses, apartments, condos, etc as private property and remove them. Voila! the legal construction of landlords no longer exists. without the threat of state violence, landlords cease to become a social category. If this sounds terrible to you, please refer to the first clause of this comment.
  - indymike 4y ago
    > The landloard-tennant social relation is able to exist because the legal system has a system of laws backed the threat of violence to secure and perpetuate its existence. So, if no one can own the property, then high rent will be solved with a state monopoly?
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      I think it's a little bit of a false dichotomy and a deficit of creativity that the only two conceivable ownership models for housing have to be private or public. There are an infinite number of ways to conceive of housing, than those two. Just try.
googlryas 4y ago
What's stopping anyone?
- ensignavenger 4y ago
  Most folks aren't interested in housing cooperatives- too much work, they want to be able to move without strings, etc.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  It is always easy to ask others to do the moral thing.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Since credit and money creation is privatised, it is only available to for-profit ventures. Good luck obtaining credit to build an apartment building, if all you have is a contract signed by 100 people promising to take on 1/100th of the debt.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Reverse this - get 100 people to take on construction loans to bud a co-operative to live in, and then refinance after completion. You'll have no problems - except people don't want to take the risk of owning.
  - zajio1am 4y ago
    Housing cooperative can just take mortgage for the building. That is commonly done here when apartment houses are sold as a whole. It is simpler to make one big mortgage for cooperative instead if 100 smaller mortgages for individual flat owners.
- ilyt 4y ago
  The ones that own rental properties have no reason to change business models and no competition (like say city-build-and-owned rental apartments)
zajio1am 4y ago
Housing cooperatives are not really alternatives to landlords, they are alternatives to condominiums.