14 ms·

KDE runs on the Apple M2 with full GPU acceleration

368 points by c80e74f077 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CameronNemo 4y ago
Question for those in the know: are there any substantial changes from M1 to M2? I'm sure lots of tuning took place, but is there any major component that was completely overhauled?
- dottedmag 4y ago
  There was quite a bit of small annoying stuff, but nothing major. GPU and display controller were initially expected to have large amount of changes, but this turned out not to be the case. Amount of changes between M1->M1Pro/Max/Ultra and M1Pro/Max/Ultra->M2 is similar.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  No.
- hedgehog 4y ago
  I've been reading bits and pieces from the people doing Linux for Apple SoCs for a while and it sounds like the evolution has been mostly incremental going way back (like A7 era).
- ultrarunner 4y ago
  Another question for those in the know: there are what seem to be tons of weird GPU problems on macOS under M1— weird cursor tails, choppy scrolling, and very occasional panics that derive from GPU drivers. Are there any workarounds for unstable GPU behavior that were discovered during the RE & driver implementation? Edit: I've directly observed these on my machine, and it doesn't look to be an isolated incident. There is a video in [2] below. [0] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253679057 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253679057 [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252777347 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252777347 [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/u486mi/macbook_pro_13_m1_trackpad_cursor_lag_issue_no/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/u486mi/macbook_pro_1... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/oldbb9/mba_m1_cursor_glitching_andor_ghosting/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/oldbb9/mba_m1_cursor_g... [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/kfkuqi/is_there_a_way_to_get_rid_of_the_cursor/ https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/kfkuqi/is_there_... [5] https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/r037h2/is_this_amount_of_cursor_trailing_normal_for_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/r037h2/is_this_amount_... [6] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-mouse-cursor-strange-and-weird.2326604/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-mouse-curso...
  - snoot 4y ago
    > there are what seem to be tons of weird GPU problems on macOS under M1— weird cursor tails, choppy scrolling, and very occasional panics that derive from GPU drivers. Never heard of these. Been using M1 for a year. I don’t think it’s worth taking seriously.
  - david_allison 4y ago
    Agreed with other commenter: I'd disregard the reports. Been using an M1 for 6 months now on macOS. One kernel panic when closing the lid. Solid machine and no issues with the GPU.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - nine_k 4y ago
    It looks like your particular piece of hardware is defective. Try having it replaced.
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    Are you sure you're not using any displaylink cable/drivers? I had a choppy mouse at a certain point, but that was only with a bluetooth mouse. Bluetooth runs at a slower rate in any case, but I think it might have had to do with some interference.
    - ultrarunner 4y ago
      I'm aware of bluetooth issues, it's a similar experience. However, this is using the built-in trackpad and built-in display, and occurs seemingly randomly. The bluetooth issue made it initially very difficult to find any discussion of the M1 issue.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    YMMV but on an MBP 16" M1 Pro driving its internal display alongside an Apple Thunderbolt Display (yes, the one they sold from 2011-2016) I've seen no graphical problems whatsoever in the past year.
- MBCook 4y ago
  Sort of a “spec bump+”. The biggest change, IIRC, is that the M1 was based on the A12(?) but the M2 was based on the A14(?). So the CPU/GPU design was newer. They tweaked and improved other modules like the neural engine too. So it wasn’t just clock speed, but to most end users it was just somewhat faster and more mature. Nothing special/amazing/transformative.
  - jshier 4y ago
    M1 was based on the A14 cores, the M2 is based on the A15 cores.
School-Cotton 4y ago
Asahi is getting closer and closer to "daily driver" usability at an amazing pace. Anyone have an idea how soon we should expect GPU support to be in mainline?
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  i'm using it as a daily driver for a couple months easily, but my daily driving happens to not require the not-quite-perfect device drivers. i shutdown for sleep, for instance, which works just fine, since boot and login is super fast and restores everything.
  - nu11ptr 4y ago
    Possibly stupid q: Why buy a mac if you are just going to run Linux on it? I suspect any comparable PC would be more economical (w/ exception of power draw).
    - sofixa 4y ago
      The hardware is pretty good. Utterly unmaintainable, unserviceable and unapgradeable, extremely overpriced tiering (e.g. adding storage or RAM which you have to do at purchase time), with limited options (e.g. i cannot stand glossy screens with shitty reflections everywhere causing eye strain), but still very good. However the software (macOS) is pretty shit and IMO hard to adapt to coming from any other OS. Raw performance per watt, and per weight/dimensions is best in class. For pure performance (e.g. an Asus ROG Zephyrus) or lightness (e.g. LG Gram) there are better options, but if you want all three it's hard to beat. I personally think the hardware is so good, even with the caveats, but the software so bad that I'm honestly tempted to get an Air for portability or a Pro as a daily driver when Asahi Linux is good enough for me and the prices are right (so some sale or something, sticker prices are ridiculous if you max everything, and you kind of have to due to the impossibility of upgrades).
      - kitsunesoba 4y ago
        Serviceability is improved (though still not amazing) in all the machines with chassises redesigned during the "M" era — the "notched" MBP 14/16 and Air have easily accessible bottom screws (no need to remove rubber feet first) and don't have batteries glued in. Keyboards can be changed independently from the top case too. Notably, many Windows laptops fail on both of those counts (like the LG Gram which hides screws under adhesive-attached feet). But yes, it's difficult to find laptops as well-rounded as MacBooks are. Generally laptops will require you to make significant sacrifices in multiple categories to be good at one or two things, which is less true of MacBooks (particularly the 14"/16" Pro models), especially if you want good performance without the laptop being huge and bulky and/or have horrible battery life with constantly-screaming fans. The 14"/16" models get you performance in the ballpark of a desktop Ryzen 5800X while unplugged and still getting great battery life while also being silent and still reasonably portable, along with a killer screen, great speakers, decent keyboard and great trackpad.
sedeki 4y ago
(false statement about a buggy M1)
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  M1RACLES was a security flaw that was hyped as a joke, because it was such a weak bug, and yet it was hyped to oblivion. It totally does not deserve even a mention on the M1 Wikipedia page. The flaw means that two malicious processes, already on the system, can potentially communicate without the OS being aware. Even though they already could through pipes, desktop icons, files, inter-process communication, screen grabbing each other, over the network, from a remote website, take your pick. Now, what are the odds of two malicious processes, being on a system, with a pre-agreed protocol for communication, going to need a weird processor bug to communicate over for? Absolutely nothing. It's not supposed to happen - but it's basically useless when you are twice-pwned already. The other flaw that was found was that Pointer Authentication (PAC) could be defeated on the M1 with the PACMAN attack. However, PAC was actually an ARM standard added in ARMv8.4 that affects all ARMv8.4 implementers - the M1 just happens to be the most notable chip with that ARM version. Versions before ARMv8.4 didn't have PAC at all - so, even with that defeated, you aren't worse off than you were before ARMv8.4, so it's just a "sad, we tried, but oh well" thing from ARM's perspective.
  - sedeki 4y ago
    Thank you! I am learning something new every day.
  - Sirened 4y ago
    Notably, almost every other Arm A series processor which supported PAC also was susceptible to the same attack [1], the issue is just that actually buying such processors is nigh impossible (up until this year it was actually impossible, now you just need to do research on a phone SoC) whereas anyone can buy an apple silicon device from a million different places. [1] https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ka005109/ https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ka005109/
vletal 4y ago
Sad that iPads do have open bootloaders. Id be happy using my M1 iPad Pro from time to time.
bogwog 4y ago
This is great news and a big win for consumers!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
yes_but_no 4y ago
Some ppl have been saying reason macs doesn't support 4k 120hz using thunderbolt to hdmi 2.1 cables is a software limitation, I wonder if linux on macbook solves that
- sofixa 4y ago
  Same with Macs not supporting display port daisy chaining over USB C (not Thunderbolt), it's purely a software limitation.
- alin23 4y ago
  Most often it's a hardware limitation because the cables/adapters use the MCDP2900 converter chip inside, even when they advertise HDMI2.1 support. That's the same chip inside the built-in HDMI port of the new MacBook Pro and its datasheet [0] says it only supports up to 60hz That chip is also the reason for a lot of support emails I'm getting on Lunar (https://lunar.fyi/ https://lunar.fyi/) because it seems to break DDC/CI and hardware brightness control stops working through cables and ports that use it. [0] https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/MegaChips%20PDFs/MCDP2900_DS.pdf#page7 https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/MegaChips%20PDFs...
moondev 4y ago
Can anyone confirm if nested virtualization is available when running asahi on m1/m2 ?
- my123 4y ago
  M1 doesn't have nested virt in hardware. M2 does but nested virt on arm64 isn't quite in upstream Linux yet.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

368 points by c80e74f077 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

CameronNemo 4y ago

Question for those in the know: are there any substantial changes from M1 to M2? I'm sure lots of tuning took place, but is there any major component that was completely overhauled?

dottedmag 4y ago
There was quite a bit of small annoying stuff, but nothing major. GPU and display controller were initially expected to have large amount of changes, but this turned out not to be the case. Amount of changes between M1->M1Pro/Max/Ultra and M1Pro/Max/Ultra->M2 is similar.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
No.
hedgehog 4y ago
I've been reading bits and pieces from the people doing Linux for Apple SoCs for a while and it sounds like the evolution has been mostly incremental going way back (like A7 era).
ultrarunner 4y ago
Another question for those in the know: there are what seem to be tons of weird GPU problems on macOS under M1— weird cursor tails, choppy scrolling, and very occasional panics that derive from GPU drivers. Are there any workarounds for unstable GPU behavior that were discovered during the RE & driver implementation? Edit: I've directly observed these on my machine, and it doesn't look to be an isolated incident. There is a video in [2] below. [0] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253679057 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253679057 [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252777347 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252777347 [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/u486mi/macbook_pro_13_m1_trackpad_cursor_lag_issue_no/ https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/u486mi/macbook_pro_1... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/oldbb9/mba_m1_cursor_glitching_andor_ghosting/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/oldbb9/mba_m1_cursor_g... [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/kfkuqi/is_there_a_way_to_get_rid_of_the_cursor/ https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/kfkuqi/is_there_... [5] https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/r037h2/is_this_amount_of_cursor_trailing_normal_for_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/r037h2/is_this_amount_... [6] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-mouse-cursor-strange-and-weird.2326604/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-mouse-curso...
- snoot 4y ago
  > there are what seem to be tons of weird GPU problems on macOS under M1— weird cursor tails, choppy scrolling, and very occasional panics that derive from GPU drivers. Never heard of these. Been using M1 for a year. I don’t think it’s worth taking seriously.
- david_allison 4y ago
  Agreed with other commenter: I'd disregard the reports. Been using an M1 for 6 months now on macOS. One kernel panic when closing the lid. Solid machine and no issues with the GPU.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- nine_k 4y ago
  It looks like your particular piece of hardware is defective. Try having it replaced.
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  Are you sure you're not using any displaylink cable/drivers? I had a choppy mouse at a certain point, but that was only with a bluetooth mouse. Bluetooth runs at a slower rate in any case, but I think it might have had to do with some interference.
  - ultrarunner 4y ago
    I'm aware of bluetooth issues, it's a similar experience. However, this is using the built-in trackpad and built-in display, and occurs seemingly randomly. The bluetooth issue made it initially very difficult to find any discussion of the M1 issue.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  YMMV but on an MBP 16" M1 Pro driving its internal display alongside an Apple Thunderbolt Display (yes, the one they sold from 2011-2016) I've seen no graphical problems whatsoever in the past year.
MBCook 4y ago
Sort of a “spec bump+”. The biggest change, IIRC, is that the M1 was based on the A12(?) but the M2 was based on the A14(?). So the CPU/GPU design was newer. They tweaked and improved other modules like the neural engine too. So it wasn’t just clock speed, but to most end users it was just somewhat faster and more mature. Nothing special/amazing/transformative.
- jshier 4y ago
  M1 was based on the A14 cores, the M2 is based on the A15 cores.

School-Cotton 4y ago

Asahi is getting closer and closer to "daily driver" usability at an amazing pace. Anyone have an idea how soon we should expect GPU support to be in mainline?

jjtheblunt 4y ago
i'm using it as a daily driver for a couple months easily, but my daily driving happens to not require the not-quite-perfect device drivers. i shutdown for sleep, for instance, which works just fine, since boot and login is super fast and restores everything.
- nu11ptr 4y ago
  Possibly stupid q: Why buy a mac if you are just going to run Linux on it? I suspect any comparable PC would be more economical (w/ exception of power draw).
  - sofixa 4y ago
    The hardware is pretty good. Utterly unmaintainable, unserviceable and unapgradeable, extremely overpriced tiering (e.g. adding storage or RAM which you have to do at purchase time), with limited options (e.g. i cannot stand glossy screens with shitty reflections everywhere causing eye strain), but still very good. However the software (macOS) is pretty shit and IMO hard to adapt to coming from any other OS. Raw performance per watt, and per weight/dimensions is best in class. For pure performance (e.g. an Asus ROG Zephyrus) or lightness (e.g. LG Gram) there are better options, but if you want all three it's hard to beat. I personally think the hardware is so good, even with the caveats, but the software so bad that I'm honestly tempted to get an Air for portability or a Pro as a daily driver when Asahi Linux is good enough for me and the prices are right (so some sale or something, sticker prices are ridiculous if you max everything, and you kind of have to due to the impossibility of upgrades).
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      Serviceability is improved (though still not amazing) in all the machines with chassises redesigned during the "M" era — the "notched" MBP 14/16 and Air have easily accessible bottom screws (no need to remove rubber feet first) and don't have batteries glued in. Keyboards can be changed independently from the top case too. Notably, many Windows laptops fail on both of those counts (like the LG Gram which hides screws under adhesive-attached feet). But yes, it's difficult to find laptops as well-rounded as MacBooks are. Generally laptops will require you to make significant sacrifices in multiple categories to be good at one or two things, which is less true of MacBooks (particularly the 14"/16" Pro models), especially if you want good performance without the laptop being huge and bulky and/or have horrible battery life with constantly-screaming fans. The 14"/16" models get you performance in the ballpark of a desktop Ryzen 5800X while unplugged and still getting great battery life while also being silent and still reasonably portable, along with a killer screen, great speakers, decent keyboard and great trackpad.

sedeki 4y ago

(false statement about a buggy M1)

gjsman-1000 4y ago
M1RACLES was a security flaw that was hyped as a joke, because it was such a weak bug, and yet it was hyped to oblivion. It totally does not deserve even a mention on the M1 Wikipedia page. The flaw means that two malicious processes, already on the system, can potentially communicate without the OS being aware. Even though they already could through pipes, desktop icons, files, inter-process communication, screen grabbing each other, over the network, from a remote website, take your pick. Now, what are the odds of two malicious processes, being on a system, with a pre-agreed protocol for communication, going to need a weird processor bug to communicate over for? Absolutely nothing. It's not supposed to happen - but it's basically useless when you are twice-pwned already. The other flaw that was found was that Pointer Authentication (PAC) could be defeated on the M1 with the PACMAN attack. However, PAC was actually an ARM standard added in ARMv8.4 that affects all ARMv8.4 implementers - the M1 just happens to be the most notable chip with that ARM version. Versions before ARMv8.4 didn't have PAC at all - so, even with that defeated, you aren't worse off than you were before ARMv8.4, so it's just a "sad, we tried, but oh well" thing from ARM's perspective.
- sedeki 4y ago
  Thank you! I am learning something new every day.
- Sirened 4y ago
  Notably, almost every other Arm A series processor which supported PAC also was susceptible to the same attack [1], the issue is just that actually buying such processors is nigh impossible (up until this year it was actually impossible, now you just need to do research on a phone SoC) whereas anyone can buy an apple silicon device from a million different places. [1] https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ka005109/ https://developer.arm.com/documentation/ka005109/

vletal 4y ago

Sad that iPads do have open bootloaders. Id be happy using my M1 iPad Pro from time to time.

bogwog 4y ago

This is great news and a big win for consumers!

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

yes_but_no 4y ago

Some ppl have been saying reason macs doesn't support 4k 120hz using thunderbolt to hdmi 2.1 cables is a software limitation, I wonder if linux on macbook solves that

sofixa 4y ago
Same with Macs not supporting display port daisy chaining over USB C (not Thunderbolt), it's purely a software limitation.
alin23 4y ago
Most often it's a hardware limitation because the cables/adapters use the MCDP2900 converter chip inside, even when they advertise HDMI2.1 support. That's the same chip inside the built-in HDMI port of the new MacBook Pro and its datasheet [0] says it only supports up to 60hz That chip is also the reason for a lot of support emails I'm getting on Lunar (https://lunar.fyi/ https://lunar.fyi/) because it seems to break DDC/CI and hardware brightness control stops working through cables and ports that use it. [0] https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/MegaChips%20PDFs/MCDP2900_DS.pdf#page7 https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/MegaChips%20PDFs...

moondev 4y ago

Can anyone confirm if nested virtualization is available when running asahi on m1/m2 ?

my123 4y ago
M1 doesn't have nested virt in hardware. M2 does but nested virt on arm64 isn't quite in upstream Linux yet.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]