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If only there were a system to transfer money between two people that didn't require a trusted third party...
by superkuh 4y ago
If only there were a system to transfer money between two people that didn't require a trusted third party...
- websap 4y agoAnd be reversible?
- web3isgoing 4y agoYes, if the application and its users demand it. Reversibility is possible in peer-to-peer and decentralized payment systems. But not every app needs reversibility and the centralized intermediaries that come with that.
- websap 4y agoWhat use case of money transfer doesn’t require reversibility for fraud prevention? I love credit cards because I can dispute transactions.
- saurik 4y agoCraigslist explicitly tells people selling on it to avoid accepting online payments (like, PayPal) and only work with cash because the online payments are reversible and sellers constantly get scammed. You have to remember that transactions involve two parties, and it isn't somehow always the case that only the ones on one side matter. The power balance simply isn't always "seller who is selling a large quantity of easily-replaceable items that might be a dud can easily amortize the cost of fraud across all of their payments by high margins"... sometimes it really is "seller who is selling a small quantity of expensive or precious items tends to get scammed by anonymous buyers who abuse chargebacks ".
- rvz 4y ago> ...sometimes it really is "seller who is selling a small quantity of expensive or precious items tends to get scammed by anonymous buyers who abuse chargebacks ". This. He's right you know. The chargeback system is rife with extreme abuse, and the banks will always give in to friendly fraud without checking the contents of the dispute. Both the customer and the merchant lose to chargebacks and friendly fraud.
- web3isgoing 4y agoVenmo[1] does not have reversibility. Cash does not have reversibility. If users really wanted credit card functionality at the expense of its costs, you could build that as a layer on top, without forcing everybody in the system to use it. And consider, most disputes is not just about the quality of a product. That is handled with regular refunds. Credit card disputes are a lot of times because of fraud or card skimming, which is very often because the system is not very secure to begin with. Secure cryptography can remove a lot of this type of fraud. [1] https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/235171088-Cancel-Payment#:~:text=It%20is%20not%20possible%20to,payment%20for%20the%20same%20amount https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/235171088-Cancel-Pa....
- websap 4y agoWe already have that system - debit cards, cash, venmo, apple pay, etc. What does crypto solve other than anonymization of payments?
- web3isgoing 4y agoOpen source, public and permissionless infrastructure for the web. Very different than Venmo which is owned by PayPal and limited to USA, and not programmable, no interop. about the OP’s thread: centralized services like PayPal, Venmo and Stripe can close your account. Nobody can close your private key, even if you are on a L2 for fast payments you can use the escape hatch to withdraw without possibility of censorship.
- hanniabu 4y agoEthereum has ERC20R which is for reversible transactions
- web3isgoing 4y agoZK rollup with validity proofs and trustless escape hatches should really be the dominant mode of bridging and storing assets in the future.[1] To the OP: sorry to hear what you are going through. [1] See https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/05/rollup.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/05/rollup.html and https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/11/19/proof_of_solvency.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/11/19/proof_of_solvency.html
- gizmo 4y agoImpossible, because it's the 3rd party (government) that makes money money. Without a system of law, courts, and and people with guns to back them up you can't have trade or commerce at any kind of scale.
- pr337h4m 4y agohttp://www.daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf http://www.daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- semicolon_storm 4y agoYou're implicitly trusting the 3rd parties developing the software & protocols you use to send money anyways.
- searchableguy 4y agoFed now instant payments will go live in US next year. EU has similar cross country solution in work. Majority of Asia already switched or in the phase. In India, most purchases go through UPI already which is p2p without a middleman. It's tough time to be in payments and will only get worse as many custom integration with lending companies break down due to huge losses.
- marcosdumay 4y agoWe only need some way to integrate those.
- searchableguy 4y agoIn India, you can pick any payment gateway for UPI. They are easily replaceable. No payment gateway in India charges for UPI transaction too. So if similar payment system is incorporated in US, I won't expect stripe to be able to charge for it. The only major functionality these payment gateway provide is checking if transaction went through. They are wrappers on top of bank APIs such as federal bank. Anyone can generate a QR code for their payment ID and request payment without needing a gateway but it's manual. Most street vendors confirm payments manually since it happens in person. Additionally, we have other standardized framework for requesting account information from banks such as RBI account aggregator framework. So you don't need something like plaid to fetch bank statements from all your bank accounts. Recurring payments are also setup on the bank end as a mandate. Yes, you will end up using an off the shelf solution but you are not at the mercy of them if you accept UPI only.
- marcosdumay 4y agoYou can't transfer money from the India system to somebody using the EU or Brazil one.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- okwubodu 4y agoThere’s an odd juxtaposition between the net negative sentiment towards The Technology That Shall Not Be Named and the near daily “X banned my accounts and my business will never recover please help” posts.