4 ms·

There is the idea that anyone that wants to be a leader probably shouldn't be a leader. These are the types of people who crave being in positions of authority

by yesbut 4y ago

There is the idea that anyone that wants to be a leader probably shouldn't be a leader. These are the types of people who crave being in positions of authority over others. They'll step on anyone they need to in order to get the the top. They might be the leader, but they usually aren't necessarily the types of people that are looking out for the best interests of the people they lead.

stncls 4y ago
I was once part of a department that was so well-managed and functional that I couldn't quite believe it. Then when time came choose a new department head, someone told me that they had always specifically avoided people who wanted to lead the department for the job.
- yesbut 4y ago
  Good policy. In worker owned enterprises that are run democratically the owner/employees elect their managers from the ranks. They act as manager for a term and then go back to their original position after the next election. Keeps everyone based in reality.
  - bsenftner 4y ago
    Decades ago, the Boston University Free Press (the alternative views newspaper) was managed in this manner. My buddy ended up running the paper for a year because he was the least political, most liked guy working at the place. He just wanted people to be happy. After a year, he was no longer happy and was glad to give up the job.
    - yesbut 4y ago
      Managers, like politicians, should have term limits. The temptation for abuse and favoritism is too strong.
      - msrenee 4y ago
        I agree with you for the most part, but what happens when you've got a damn good manager? They exist for sure. They're just unfortunately a minority.
        yesbut 4y ago
        Then they should share their knowledge with the rest of us and produce more good managers.
- beardyw 4y ago
  A perfect model for democracy I would say.
  - Jenk 4y ago
    The flaw is that it forces someone into a role they do not want to fulfil, that could see the occupant become resentful of those around them and act out of spite. The short answer is there is no perfect model, people will always be people.
    - soco 4y ago
      I somehow expect that person wouldn't have become spiteful _just_ because of the election, so wouldn't get elected in the first place... but yeah, we only have bad or worse solutions.
  - dasv 4y ago
    An idea that goes back to Plato's republic.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  “Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” - Douglas Adams
- victor106 4y ago
  My simple mind thinks:- Why would you want someone who does not want to do a job do that job? If you are interviewing someone and that person said “I don’t want to do this job” would you hire that person?
  - salawat 4y ago
    There's a difference between "I don't want to do this job", and "I don't want to do this job, but it needs to be done, and apparently everyone else thinks I'm the best fit for it. As much as I now hate you all, I'll do it, and may God have mercy on your souls." I've been told several times that I become scarily competent at anything I hate, far in excess of those things that make me happy or bring me joy. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't discount disgust or aversion to something or it's lack as a disqualification to manage that thing. Quite to the contrary, they may be just the person aware enough of the thing in question to reliably manage it. I'll take a candidate who can explain at length why they hate that job over the most eager "this'll be great" candidate ever. I'll just be realistic about my assessment of their tenure, and the compensation offered, and try really hard to figure out what they actually want before pulling the trigger on the hire.
tomger 4y ago
I think that’s the takeaway from the Lord of the Rings.
TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
There's also the Dunning-Kruger Effect; Incompetent or dumb people don't recognize their own failings and assume they are geniuses. Smart and competent people know their own deficiencies and assume they're limited or dumb.
- Rallen89 4y ago
  so if you feel like you are limited/dumb are you actually smart or does realising that loop back to you actually really being dumb. seems like a catch 22
  - wpietri 4y ago
    With DK, the underlying model is that people only improve when they see their flaws. People who are very good at seeing their own flaws improve their performance, but tend to think they are doing worse than they are. In my view whether or not that makes you "smart" or "dumb" depends on what you do with the insight. As Ira Glass writes: "Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."
acuozzo 4y ago
> There is the idea that anyone that wants to be a leader probably shouldn't be a leader. These are the types of people who crave being in positions of authority over others. Which is why it's helpful to have as many (what I refer to as…) "power traps" in a society as possible: coaching, teaching, leading an HOA, leading a PTA, etc. I have nothing against these endeavors, you must understand, but my view is that a person spending time acting as a judge for a dog show is less likely to pursue becoming an actual judge.
- yesbut 4y ago
  Solution: Put term limits on democratically elected Dog Show judges, as well as normal judges.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

by yesbut 4y ago

stncls 4y ago

I was once part of a department that was so well-managed and functional that I couldn't quite believe it. Then when time came choose a new department head, someone told me that they had always specifically avoided people who wanted to lead the department for the job.

yesbut 4y ago
Good policy. In worker owned enterprises that are run democratically the owner/employees elect their managers from the ranks. They act as manager for a term and then go back to their original position after the next election. Keeps everyone based in reality.
- bsenftner 4y ago
  Decades ago, the Boston University Free Press (the alternative views newspaper) was managed in this manner. My buddy ended up running the paper for a year because he was the least political, most liked guy working at the place. He just wanted people to be happy. After a year, he was no longer happy and was glad to give up the job.
  - yesbut 4y ago
    Managers, like politicians, should have term limits. The temptation for abuse and favoritism is too strong.
    - msrenee 4y ago
      I agree with you for the most part, but what happens when you've got a damn good manager? They exist for sure. They're just unfortunately a minority.
      - yesbut 4y ago
        Then they should share their knowledge with the rest of us and produce more good managers.
beardyw 4y ago
A perfect model for democracy I would say.
- Jenk 4y ago
  The flaw is that it forces someone into a role they do not want to fulfil, that could see the occupant become resentful of those around them and act out of spite. The short answer is there is no perfect model, people will always be people.
  - soco 4y ago
    I somehow expect that person wouldn't have become spiteful _just_ because of the election, so wouldn't get elected in the first place... but yeah, we only have bad or worse solutions.
- dasv 4y ago
  An idea that goes back to Plato's republic.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
“Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.” - Douglas Adams
victor106 4y ago
My simple mind thinks:- Why would you want someone who does not want to do a job do that job? If you are interviewing someone and that person said “I don’t want to do this job” would you hire that person?
- salawat 4y ago
  There's a difference between "I don't want to do this job", and "I don't want to do this job, but it needs to be done, and apparently everyone else thinks I'm the best fit for it. As much as I now hate you all, I'll do it, and may God have mercy on your souls." I've been told several times that I become scarily competent at anything I hate, far in excess of those things that make me happy or bring me joy. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't discount disgust or aversion to something or it's lack as a disqualification to manage that thing. Quite to the contrary, they may be just the person aware enough of the thing in question to reliably manage it. I'll take a candidate who can explain at length why they hate that job over the most eager "this'll be great" candidate ever. I'll just be realistic about my assessment of their tenure, and the compensation offered, and try really hard to figure out what they actually want before pulling the trigger on the hire.

tomger 4y ago

I think that’s the takeaway from the Lord of the Rings.

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago

There's also the Dunning-Kruger Effect; Incompetent or dumb people don't recognize their own failings and assume they are geniuses. Smart and competent people know their own deficiencies and assume they're limited or dumb.

Rallen89 4y ago
so if you feel like you are limited/dumb are you actually smart or does realising that loop back to you actually really being dumb. seems like a catch 22
- wpietri 4y ago
  With DK, the underlying model is that people only improve when they see their flaws. People who are very good at seeing their own flaws improve their performance, but tend to think they are doing worse than they are. In my view whether or not that makes you "smart" or "dumb" depends on what you do with the insight. As Ira Glass writes: "Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through."

acuozzo 4y ago

> There is the idea that anyone that wants to be a leader probably shouldn't be a leader. These are the types of people who crave being in positions of authority over others. Which is why it's helpful to have as many (what I refer to as…) "power traps" in a society as possible: coaching, teaching, leading an HOA, leading a PTA, etc. I have nothing against these endeavors, you must understand, but my view is that a person spending time acting as a judge for a dog show is less likely to pursue becoming an actual judge.

yesbut 4y ago
Solution: Put term limits on democratically elected Dog Show judges, as well as normal judges.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]