5 ms·

This article, dating back to January, lays it out pretty clearly: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightmare-android-bug-that-stopped-user-f

This article, dating back to January, lays it out pretty clearly: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightmare-android-bug-that-stopped-user-from-calling-911/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightma... > If you're logged out, launching Microsoft Teams 10 times will result in 10 duplicate PhoneAccounts from Teams clogging your phone. Teams shouldn't do this, and Microsoft's update stopped Teams from doing this, but a bunch of duplicate PhoneAccounts also shouldn't be enough to bring Android's phone system to its knees. > Next bug: when picking a PhoneAccount to run the emergency call through, [...] it's possible for this to result in an integer overflow or underflow, and now the phone subsystem is going to crash. > A third bug in this mess is that Microsoft Teams does not even register itself as an emergency call handler. > An update is not arriving for the Pixel 6 yet. Google's newest flagship is going though a bit of an update crisis at the moment. The December 2021 update was pulled due to unrelated "mobile connectivity issues" (phone calls don't work). While Google scrambles to fix everything, the next Pixel 6 update with this 911 fix is due in "late January." Until then, it's normal to be on the November patch. Both of Google's "early January" and "late January" patch timelines seem incredibly slow for a bug that could cause users to literally die. If the OP article is correct, then apparently this still hasn't actually been fixed yet.

paganel 4y ago
If I get this right, we have a $1+ trillion company not being able to build a basic functionality into their phones? (like "phone calls don't work" and the whole calling 911 issue). And, apparently, that was happening because of a shitty app built by another $1+ trillion company? In terms of innovation the US tech scene is toast with these dinosaurs.
- mitchdoogle 4y ago
  Bugs happen everywhere, to everyone. The fact that it happened is not a surprise - the lack of an immediate fix is what is concerning
  - semi-extrinsic 4y ago
    But you have to agree the state of MS Teams is an absolute shitshow. The quality is like it's put together by a bunch of guys coding on their spare time if they feel like it.
    - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
      That would be a passion project. I find it hard to conceive of Teams as a passion project, except possibly by people who have a passion for hating the world.
      - macintux 4y ago
        If Microsoft has a penchant for hiring people passionate about hating the world that would explain a lot of their software over the years.
        toss1 4y ago
        or if something about working at MS instills in people a passion for hating the world...
        Marsymars 4y ago
        If MS software is the worst software you’ve used, you’re living a pretty good life. There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX.
        bogwog 4y ago
        > There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX. Those (probably) aren’t trillion dollar businesses.
        mc10 4y ago
- Thaxll 4y ago
  Why people keep saying 1B+, 1T+ compagny, if you don't want bugs don't use software, the size of the compagny does not matter.
  - dr_hooo 4y ago
    Of course it matters, why such a black and white statement? The assumption is that a well funded company should be able to finance a quality assurance team which fixes bugs the developers create
    - giantrobot 4y ago
      Market cap is not revenue. While Google and Microsoft do have a lot of revenue, saying "trillion dollar company" is a tacit suggestion they're sitting on a trillion dollar dragon hoard. Their profitability compared to profits is a more logically consistent comparison. If they recognize a billion dollars in profit while shipping brain dead bugs it goes to demonstrate their lack of respect for customers.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  And in another thread people talk how "real programmers don't need unit tests", oh the irony.
  - bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
    “With thousands of people using your phones, it'll be clear pretty quickly when something as crucial as 911 stops working. You shouldn't need tests for that.”
- zackmorris 4y ago
  Normally failures like this would be addressed through legislation. Perhaps a $10,000 fine per 911 call failure incident. With regulatory capture and half the voting population against regulation, this is unlikely to happen though. Short of that, boycotts could be organized. Maybe a senior executive at T-Mobile loses their kid in a car accident because the 911 call didn't go through. So they decide to drop Google for 2 years or something. Soon this sort of B2B boycott could be illegal: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/11/alec-anti-political-boycott-state-legislation https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/11/alec-anti-po... More and more avenues that help common working people stand up to monopoly/duopoly, wealth inequality and other forms of power imbalance are being deemed political.
- alexchantavy 4y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvoted - I think your comment is fair. As said in the OP article "911 is not a favor to us. It’s required".
sitkack 4y ago
Bugs like these can arise from using unsigned values as intermediate results in a computation. Just because the source and dest values are positive integers doesn't mean that results don't go briefly negative.
alistairSH 4y ago
And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.
- bragr 4y ago
  >And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? It doesn't, but the interaction of registering a bunch of 3rd party voip services interacts with the emergency call system in interesting ways, as explained in detail in the links Ars Technica article.
- jpollock 4y ago
  Probably related to [1]: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information. To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers to: - Automatically provide 911 service to all customers as a standard, mandatory feature. VoIP providers may not allow customers to "opt-out" of 911 service. " Can Teams make phone calls? [1] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    From a user perspective, I think I’d expect one of two things on a cell-phone… - Teams (or other 3rd party) isn’t allowed to make telephone calls. The phone provides this service. Teams can continue making voice “calls” to other Teams users, it just can’t initiate telephone calls via PSTN. - Teams (or other 3rd party) is allowed to take over calling duties from base software. But, only one call handling system can be active at a time. Personally, I’m not sure why I’d want multiple handlers, or even a single alternate handler, so I’d pick the first option. If I’m missing a common use case, I’d like to hear it.
adrianmonk 4y ago
> If the OP article is correct, then apparently this still hasn't actually been fixed yet. Or there are two completely different 911-related issues.
c7DJTLrn 4y ago
Jesus, Teams really is the worst software in existence. Microsoft keep outdoing themslves.

paganel 4y ago

If I get this right, we have a $1+ trillion company not being able to build a basic functionality into their phones? (like "phone calls don't work" and the whole calling 911 issue). And, apparently, that was happening because of a shitty app built by another $1+ trillion company? In terms of innovation the US tech scene is toast with these dinosaurs.

mitchdoogle 4y ago
Bugs happen everywhere, to everyone. The fact that it happened is not a surprise - the lack of an immediate fix is what is concerning
- semi-extrinsic 4y ago
  But you have to agree the state of MS Teams is an absolute shitshow. The quality is like it's put together by a bunch of guys coding on their spare time if they feel like it.
  - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
    That would be a passion project. I find it hard to conceive of Teams as a passion project, except possibly by people who have a passion for hating the world.
    - macintux 4y ago
      If Microsoft has a penchant for hiring people passionate about hating the world that would explain a lot of their software over the years.
      - toss1 4y ago
        or if something about working at MS instills in people a passion for hating the world...
      - Marsymars 4y ago
        If MS software is the worst software you’ve used, you’re living a pretty good life. There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX.
        bogwog 4y ago
        > There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX. Those (probably) aren’t trillion dollar businesses.
        mc10 4y ago
Thaxll 4y ago
Why people keep saying 1B+, 1T+ compagny, if you don't want bugs don't use software, the size of the compagny does not matter.
- dr_hooo 4y ago
  Of course it matters, why such a black and white statement? The assumption is that a well funded company should be able to finance a quality assurance team which fixes bugs the developers create
  - giantrobot 4y ago
    Market cap is not revenue. While Google and Microsoft do have a lot of revenue, saying "trillion dollar company" is a tacit suggestion they're sitting on a trillion dollar dragon hoard. Their profitability compared to profits is a more logically consistent comparison. If they recognize a billion dollars in profit while shipping brain dead bugs it goes to demonstrate their lack of respect for customers.
cycomanic 4y ago
And in another thread people talk how "real programmers don't need unit tests", oh the irony.
- bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
  “With thousands of people using your phones, it'll be clear pretty quickly when something as crucial as 911 stops working. You shouldn't need tests for that.”
zackmorris 4y ago
Normally failures like this would be addressed through legislation. Perhaps a $10,000 fine per 911 call failure incident. With regulatory capture and half the voting population against regulation, this is unlikely to happen though. Short of that, boycotts could be organized. Maybe a senior executive at T-Mobile loses their kid in a car accident because the 911 call didn't go through. So they decide to drop Google for 2 years or something. Soon this sort of B2B boycott could be illegal: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/11/alec-anti-political-boycott-state-legislation https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/11/alec-anti-po... More and more avenues that help common working people stand up to monopoly/duopoly, wealth inequality and other forms of power imbalance are being deemed political.
alexchantavy 4y ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted - I think your comment is fair. As said in the OP article "911 is not a favor to us. It’s required".

sitkack 4y ago

Bugs like these can arise from using unsigned values as intermediate results in a computation. Just because the source and dest values are positive integers doesn't mean that results don't go briefly negative.

alistairSH 4y ago

And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.

bragr 4y ago
>And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? It doesn't, but the interaction of registering a bunch of 3rd party voip services interacts with the emergency call system in interesting ways, as explained in detail in the links Ars Technica article.
jpollock 4y ago
Probably related to [1]: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information. To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers to: - Automatically provide 911 service to all customers as a standard, mandatory feature. VoIP providers may not allow customers to "opt-out" of 911 service. " Can Teams make phone calls? [1] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/voip-and-911-service
- alistairSH 4y ago
  From a user perspective, I think I’d expect one of two things on a cell-phone… - Teams (or other 3rd party) isn’t allowed to make telephone calls. The phone provides this service. Teams can continue making voice “calls” to other Teams users, it just can’t initiate telephone calls via PSTN. - Teams (or other 3rd party) is allowed to take over calling duties from base software. But, only one call handling system can be active at a time. Personally, I’m not sure why I’d want multiple handlers, or even a single alternate handler, so I’d pick the first option. If I’m missing a common use case, I’d like to hear it.

adrianmonk 4y ago

> If the OP article is correct, then apparently this still hasn't actually been fixed yet. Or there are two completely different 911-related issues.

c7DJTLrn 4y ago

Jesus, Teams really is the worst software in existence. Microsoft keep outdoing themslves.