4 ms·

My reasoning is simple: Do you believe humans have been drinking 2-3 liters per day historically? If you don't think so, why are you drinking as much today?! Un

My reasoning is simple: Do you believe humans have been drinking 2-3 liters per day historically? If you don't think so, why are you drinking as much today?! Unless you have some condition, don't drink water when you're not thirsty!

dorkwood 4y ago
People tend to have a really strong reaction if you tell them they only need to drink when they're thirsty. I've stopped bringing it up in public since it's such a divisive topic.
- nikolay 4y ago
  Maybe if you tell them, "Well, then go to the bathroom every 30 minutes - it's healthier for you." then they will get the simple wisdom that we've survived so far following our internal signaling about our needs.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  yeah outside of meat, a lot of what we eat is like 50-70% water as well. Most people get plenty of water. I guess I'm not an r/hydrohomies :) . I drink plenty between coffee, water, veggies, and occasional soda. I have had long arguments with people that while you will tend to pee a bit more with coffee/tea/soda, it's still a -net- source of water rather a dehydrator. It's a hard sell to people
  - nradov 4y ago
    Even cooked meat is something like 60% water (unless it's specifically dried out).
heavyset_go 4y ago
This is the naturalistic fallacy. Historically, people also lived in near starvation conditions, average lifespans were much shorter and a broken leg could be a death sentence. If you apply the same logic to hunger, for example, even more people would be obese if they ate when they felt hungry, or if they followed their ancestors' instincts to gorge until full whenever the opportunity arose. It's possible that we've historically survived in a local maxima of resource scarcity, and that "optimal" metabolic performance exists in a place beyond that, where resources are less scarce.
- fullmoon 4y ago
  This is the fallacy fallacy. How does infant mortality help us to reason that we should drink beyond thirst?
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    It would be the fallacy fallacy if I thought they were wrong, but I don't think they are. I think their reasoning behind their conclusion isn't completely sound, though.
- nradov 4y ago
  It's not a fallacy. There is no proven health benefit to drinking water beyond your level of thirst.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I typically tell people like nikolai that they should also never eat fruit in winter because historically people didn't if it doesn't naturally grow where you live. After all, if we are imitating history then seasonal scurvy is a must (also seeing your teeth fall out will quickly cure you of this worldview).
  - nikolay 4y ago
    People used to eat fruit during the winter - in the form of jams and dried or preserved fruit. Also, sauerkraut was an effective way to prevent scurvy.
throwaway290 4y ago
Thirst is "drop everything and drink or you'll die soon", not "it would be good for you will being to have some water". In modern world with various soft drinks and soups you can drink no water at all and not feel thirsty once. See the problem?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  It’s really not. Almost everybody is a couple of days away from serious dehydration health risks. You are not near death every time you’re thirsty.
  - nikolay 4y ago
    I've been doing 3-day dry fasts for over 5 years and I'm fine. It was a bit harsh when I tried a 5-day one though.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    You are missing the point. A modern human may not drink water for weeks and not want water. (First hand I went through coffee/alcohol/soft drinks periods at the uni, I know I'm not the only one.) It is objectively bad long term. The way out of this is to drink water, not to wait for thirst to start. Thirst is an emergency signal not a useful metric to depend on planning water intake.
    - nradov 4y ago
      That is misinformation. There is no proven medical or performance benefit to drinking water when you're not thirsty. Where are you getting this ridiculous "emergency signal" nonsense? https://wwnorton.com/books/Good-to-Go/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Good-to-Go/
inglor_cz 4y ago
"Do you believe humans have been drinking 2-3 liters per day historically?" Why not? Humans generally avoided arid climates until fairly recently, so I wouldn't consider the idea of drinking 2 liters per day as absurd on its face. Also, one of our killer features is the ability to cool our bodies down by sweating. That makes us incredible endurance hunters, who can eventually exhaust even much larger and faster prey by simply following it around until it collapses from excess heat. But that requires drinking water.
- nikolay 4y ago
  So, hunters carried 2-3 liters of water during hunting? Have you seen in the museums the water pouches made from leather? They barely hold a liter to a liter and a half. Even the ones I've seen made from wood barely hold more than a liter. I doubt people always hunted close to streams so that they didn't need to carry water with them.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    "They barely hold a liter to a liter and a half." Depending on where you live, you will sweat out a lot more water on a daylong hunt. But in semi-arid climates, where streams are rare, animals tend to gather around watering holes, so that might actually be the best place to start your hunt.

dorkwood 4y ago

People tend to have a really strong reaction if you tell them they only need to drink when they're thirsty. I've stopped bringing it up in public since it's such a divisive topic.

nikolay 4y ago
Maybe if you tell them, "Well, then go to the bathroom every 30 minutes - it's healthier for you." then they will get the simple wisdom that we've survived so far following our internal signaling about our needs.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
yeah outside of meat, a lot of what we eat is like 50-70% water as well. Most people get plenty of water. I guess I'm not an r/hydrohomies :) . I drink plenty between coffee, water, veggies, and occasional soda. I have had long arguments with people that while you will tend to pee a bit more with coffee/tea/soda, it's still a -net- source of water rather a dehydrator. It's a hard sell to people
- nradov 4y ago
  Even cooked meat is something like 60% water (unless it's specifically dried out).

heavyset_go 4y ago

This is the naturalistic fallacy. Historically, people also lived in near starvation conditions, average lifespans were much shorter and a broken leg could be a death sentence. If you apply the same logic to hunger, for example, even more people would be obese if they ate when they felt hungry, or if they followed their ancestors' instincts to gorge until full whenever the opportunity arose. It's possible that we've historically survived in a local maxima of resource scarcity, and that "optimal" metabolic performance exists in a place beyond that, where resources are less scarce.

fullmoon 4y ago
This is the fallacy fallacy. How does infant mortality help us to reason that we should drink beyond thirst?
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  It would be the fallacy fallacy if I thought they were wrong, but I don't think they are. I think their reasoning behind their conclusion isn't completely sound, though.
nradov 4y ago
It's not a fallacy. There is no proven health benefit to drinking water beyond your level of thirst.
throwaway290 4y ago
I typically tell people like nikolai that they should also never eat fruit in winter because historically people didn't if it doesn't naturally grow where you live. After all, if we are imitating history then seasonal scurvy is a must (also seeing your teeth fall out will quickly cure you of this worldview).
- nikolay 4y ago
  People used to eat fruit during the winter - in the form of jams and dried or preserved fruit. Also, sauerkraut was an effective way to prevent scurvy.

throwaway290 4y ago

Thirst is "drop everything and drink or you'll die soon", not "it would be good for you will being to have some water". In modern world with various soft drinks and soups you can drink no water at all and not feel thirsty once. See the problem?

colechristensen 4y ago
It’s really not. Almost everybody is a couple of days away from serious dehydration health risks. You are not near death every time you’re thirsty.
- nikolay 4y ago
  I've been doing 3-day dry fasts for over 5 years and I'm fine. It was a bit harsh when I tried a 5-day one though.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  You are missing the point. A modern human may not drink water for weeks and not want water. (First hand I went through coffee/alcohol/soft drinks periods at the uni, I know I'm not the only one.) It is objectively bad long term. The way out of this is to drink water, not to wait for thirst to start. Thirst is an emergency signal not a useful metric to depend on planning water intake.
  - nradov 4y ago
    That is misinformation. There is no proven medical or performance benefit to drinking water when you're not thirsty. Where are you getting this ridiculous "emergency signal" nonsense? https://wwnorton.com/books/Good-to-Go/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Good-to-Go/

inglor_cz 4y ago

"Do you believe humans have been drinking 2-3 liters per day historically?" Why not? Humans generally avoided arid climates until fairly recently, so I wouldn't consider the idea of drinking 2 liters per day as absurd on its face. Also, one of our killer features is the ability to cool our bodies down by sweating. That makes us incredible endurance hunters, who can eventually exhaust even much larger and faster prey by simply following it around until it collapses from excess heat. But that requires drinking water.

nikolay 4y ago
So, hunters carried 2-3 liters of water during hunting? Have you seen in the museums the water pouches made from leather? They barely hold a liter to a liter and a half. Even the ones I've seen made from wood barely hold more than a liter. I doubt people always hunted close to streams so that they didn't need to carry water with them.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  "They barely hold a liter to a liter and a half." Depending on where you live, you will sweat out a lot more water on a daylong hunt. But in semi-arid climates, where streams are rare, animals tend to gather around watering holes, so that might actually be the best place to start your hunt.