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Closure of Twitter Brussels office prompts online safety fears
- sposeray 4y ago[dead]
- r721 4y agoArchived: https://archive.is/dILD0 https://archive.is/dILD0 (a bit outdated version)
- amadeuspagel 4y agoWill the EU build something like china's great firewall, if twitter doesn't censor enough?
- lzooz 4y agoI assume that they will make it impossible for EU citizens to access the website like they did with rt.com without even a court order.
- amadeuspagel 4y agoI'm in the EU and I can access rt.com. Just checked.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- malermeister 4y agoI think they'll just fine them, as per EU law.
- amadeuspagel 4y agoWell that just begs the question what happens if twitter doesn't pay these fines. Will they build a great firewall then?
- malermeister 4y agoPeople will go to jail.
- bavell 4y agoFor not censoring "enough"? Yikes, so much for democracy...
- malermeister 4y agoWe democratically voted for governments that made those rules to be followed by people doing business here. Not sure how that is supposed to be undemocratic.
- bavell 4y agoHow can a society course-correct without confronting dissent? The sphere of "acceptable" discourse seems to shrink by the day. Putting on my cynical hat, I could imagine powerful interests using this opportunity to consolidate their power and silence their opposition under the guide of "prevention mis/dis/malinformation" - it's a slippery slope which is easy to abuse if not careful in our approach. This is what I meant by "so much for democracy". I very much hope I'm wrong :)
- coutego 4y agoWe tried free speech on the 20s and 30s. Didn't go well.
- torben-friis 4y ago>Putting on my cynical hat, I could imagine powerful interests using this opportunity to consolidate their power and silence their opposition under the guide of "prevention mis/dis/malinformation" A powerful monopoly can do the same thing, and you don’t get to vote on their board. Why is that any less dangerous?
- tjpnz 4y agoThe EU will just prevent their own citizens from purchasing subscriptions and ads. If anyone's going to block the site in the EU it would be Twitter themselves.
- BaseballPhysics 4y agoA less politically charged framing would be: The EU would, quite rightly, prevent Twitter from operating as a business in their jurisdiction due to their refusal to conform to EU regulations. That would then prevent Twitter from charging customers in those geographies (whether those customers are advertisers or users). And given the EU economy is one of the largest in the world, that could seriously impede Twitter's revenue potential.
- dpdpdp 4y agoOh no, people can speak their minds without being shadowbanned by political algorithms and woke[1] moderators. How dangerous. Taking a look at the actual data[2], hate speech has decreased. 1: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595250835096621057 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595250835096621057 2: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595630109116989440 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595630109116989440
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- d23 4y agoSure, I trust evidence posted by a pathological liar with no mention of the data gathering methodology.
- r721 4y ago>1: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595250835096621057 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1595250835096621057 >Elon Musk has said he's about context on tweets, so here's context for these shirts: They came from Twitter's Black employee resource group and were popularized by @jack, who wore a version around to conferences to support the group (and was sometimes ridiculed for it). https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1595271296459292672 https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1595271296459292672
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- thejohnconway 4y agoThe comments so far… wow. Can’t read the article because of the paywall, can anybody summarise?
- akolbe 4y agoThe disbanding of Twitter's Brussels office has sparked concerns whether Twitter will be able to comply with EU rules on online content (e.g. disinformation code). Two remaining Brussels executives left last week after Musk asked staff to commit to a "hardcore working culture"; it's unclear whether they resigned or were fired. The article quotes the EU's vice-president in charge of the disinformation code as saying she is "concerned" about Twitter's future ability to "detect and take action against disinformation and propaganda ... Especially in the context of Russian disinformation warfare, I expect Twitter to fully respect the EU law and honour its commitments. Twitter has been a very useful partner in the fight against disinformation and illegal hate speech and this must not change." The article adds that advertisers are also worried.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago> the company’s effort to comply with the EU’s disinformation code > local Twitter executives who had key positions to deal with government officials > the EU’s vice-president in charge of the disinformation code Imagine thinking these are good and the changes are bad. Never let anyone tell you we have free speech in europe.
- piva00 4y agoNo, absolute free speech has never been a blanket right in all of the EU states, why do you assume that? There are multiple laws against hate speech, against spreading of Nazi ideas, etc. Do you have examples of when those laws have silenced a citizen from speaking their mind where it wouldn't cause damages to a minority or just other people in general? Because I'm fully onboard in not allowing Nazi-speech be spread around, it infects the mind of the fearful and tolerating it has been shown to not work.
- sfusato 4y agoWell, I have some news for you with regards to Nazi speech in Europe. It's at an all-time high recently. No idea why.
- piva00 4y ago[flagged]
- amadeuspagel 4y agoCan you name a country that has enough censorship in your view?
- piva00 4y agoGermany.
- censormeharder 4y ago
- belorn 4y ago"Twitter has been a very useful partner in the fight against disinformation and illegal hate speech and this must not change." Governments are supposed to do regulatory action and not partnerships. I rather have democratic laws (even with the minor power individual citizens has in EU), than governments officials being in control of content moderation at a public platform.
- d23 4y agoOh come on. It’s just a polite way of saying they’ve had a cooperative relationship and have made a good faith effort to comply with the laws.
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- belorn 4y agoThe quote is not from twitter but by Věra Jourová, the EU’s vice-president in charge of the disinformation code. "They" in this context is the EU commission. Here in Sweden we have a long standing political guideline when it come to politicians and media/news/culture/free speech. Politician should keep a minimum arm-length distance so to not enter temptation of controlling those part of society. Partnership in this context is also a bit weird. The EU commission does not have a police force nor do they enforce the law. The commission role is draft legislation, arbitrate in the legislative process, engage in trade negotiations, and draw up the budget of the European Union.
- teddyh 4y agoIt’s a little bit more than just a guideline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerial_governance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerial_governance
- zamalek 4y ago> Governments are supposed to do regulatory action and not partnerships. This is a very American view of politics, and this view is certainly not shared by every human on Earth. Europeans voted for such governments, along with all the benefits and drawbacks. Being able to choose governments that align with their ideals is democracy.
- tbrownaw 4y agohttps://www.barrons.com/news/eu-to-warn-twitter-and-facebook-to-stick-to-rules-01669228507 https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-to-warn-twitter-and-facebook... > EU To Warn Twitter And Facebook To Stick To Rules > The social media giants' EU operations are based in Ireland, and Brussels is worried that a wave of job losses will undermine their content moderation and data protection standards. > But there are concerns in Brussels that Musk's libertarian free speech stance -- and the gutting of Twitter's staff -- will undermine efforts to stamp out propaganda, hate speech and harassment. --- A) This Brussels office is not Twitter's only, or even main, presence in the EU. So this probably isn't a "fine I'll just leave" thing. B) This comes in the middle of a spat about whether Twitter is actually allowed to stop censoring things. The FT article sounds like this was probably the office responsible for coordinating Twitter's censorship policies with government policy makers?
- im3w1l 4y agoIt's super fascinating to watch this unfold. The almost chaos-monkey approach of messing with everything here and there and watching how things fail and who complains. And then deciding whether or not it needs fixing. Observing how this the "online safety" system fails, reveals many details of how it used to work, details that were previously obscure. Apparently advertisers, ngos, and governments all seemed to have hotlines were they were able to control the moderation in real time.
- UltraViolence 4y agoThe internet is essentially a worldwide network so having a company claim it only falls under U.S. jurisdiction even though it reaches users everywhere is still an unsolved enigma. Most U.S. Big Tech companies have willingly set-up shop in Europe, but with increasingly acrimonious legislation putting them in the cross-hairs I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Musk tests if he can get away with merely operating from U.S. soil and ignoring EU legislation.
- josephcsible 4y agoShould the CCP also have say in what content American companies are allowed to host? If not, then what part of your argument breaks by replacing "the EU" with "China"?
- UltraViolence 4y agoThe EU believes it can regulate U.S. Big Tech even if they're not operating on EU soil. The Cookie Banner is one example. Most U.S. websites detect European users and show the pop-up accordingly. IMHO a U.S. web-based newspaper or site shouldn't have to do this as long as all its servers are U.S.-based.