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> […] jvms, some target embedded devices even. Java was invented as IoT technology in the first place. Long before this acronym even existed. It run on all th

> […] jvms, some target embedded devices even. Java was invented as IoT technology in the first place. Long before this acronym even existed. It run on all the old 4-line monochrome text display dumb phones. Java runs on SmartCards.

kaba0 4y ago
Yeah, I know, but those are not the most streamlined ways of using Java nowadays, that’s why I didn’t highlight these parts as much (also, smartcards only run java ME, which is a subset of SE)
- elcritch 4y ago
  Also most of them are also only support programming in Java. This always limited running arbitrary C code, or other languages like C++, Go, Nim, Rust, etc.
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    The JVM is Turing complete. So you can run any language you please on it. The question is—as always—how efficient this is. But this goes also the other way around. Even you can in theory run arbitrary languages on a WASM runtime the question how efficient this is stands also! And in fact running anything else than "C languages" in WASM is at least as inefficient as running "C languages" on the JVM…
    - kaba0 4y ago
      > And in fact running anything else than "C languages" in WASM is at least as inefficient as running "C languages" on the JVM… Hell, it is a really safe bet to say that running a C-like program on the JVM is much much faster than porting a whole runtime (which is very performance-oriented) on top of a runtime and make it run some code. Wasm simply can’t expose the optimizations runtimes routinely make use of (template interpreters for example))
- still_grokking 4y ago
  Sure! I wanted only to point out that using the word "even" in the cited part is kind of "funny". Because this was actually the originally intended usage of Java. It was invented as safe replacement of C/C++ especially for embedded development. (But now, sure, it ended up on the really huge boxes in DCs).

kaba0 4y ago

Yeah, I know, but those are not the most streamlined ways of using Java nowadays, that’s why I didn’t highlight these parts as much (also, smartcards only run java ME, which is a subset of SE)

elcritch 4y ago
Also most of them are also only support programming in Java. This always limited running arbitrary C code, or other languages like C++, Go, Nim, Rust, etc.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  The JVM is Turing complete. So you can run any language you please on it. The question is—as always—how efficient this is. But this goes also the other way around. Even you can in theory run arbitrary languages on a WASM runtime the question how efficient this is stands also! And in fact running anything else than "C languages" in WASM is at least as inefficient as running "C languages" on the JVM…
  - kaba0 4y ago
    > And in fact running anything else than "C languages" in WASM is at least as inefficient as running "C languages" on the JVM… Hell, it is a really safe bet to say that running a C-like program on the JVM is much much faster than porting a whole runtime (which is very performance-oriented) on top of a runtime and make it run some code. Wasm simply can’t expose the optimizations runtimes routinely make use of (template interpreters for example))
still_grokking 4y ago
Sure! I wanted only to point out that using the word "even" in the cited part is kind of "funny". Because this was actually the originally intended usage of Java. It was invented as safe replacement of C/C++ especially for embedded development. (But now, sure, it ended up on the really huge boxes in DCs).