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I sympathize with the sentiment, although I don't blame the issues on a dearth of altruism. If you grew up in the 1400's could you expect widespread equality du

by leshow 4y ago

I sympathize with the sentiment, although I don't blame the issues on a dearth of altruism. If you grew up in the 1400's could you expect widespread equality during feudalism? It doesn't matter how magnanimous a king was, inequality was built into society. The question then becomes, IMO, what sort of economic organization would help solve these issues?

naikrovek 4y ago
there is no economic system which treats people equally, and there never will be, because it is the creation and use of money which turns good people into bad people. money is Aladdin's Lamp; money grants wishes, and no matter who you are or what you have, you will always want more. there will always be a non-zero number of people who want "more" enough that they feel it is ok that others suffer so that it be obtained. humans create economies wherever they go, and they always have. money takes no action on its own, so humans are the problem. we will be our own demise. our end will not be due to a supernova or space aliens or anything outside of our own control. we will destroy ourselves unless we somehow change ourselves enough that Aladdin's Lamp no longer holds sway over our lives. that will not happen for 100,000,000 generations of humanity, if it ever happens. it is in our very being to destroy things or people for personal gain, and everyone who thinks they are entitled to do it will do it. we may never truly fail as a species (though that is definitely within our reach today) but we will not succeed as a species, either. Aladdin's Lamp is always too close.
- imtringued 4y ago
  This may interest you: https://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/suhr/nngengl.html https://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/suhr/nngengl.html
- leshow 4y ago
  Money has existed for a long time, but only recently has the pursuit of profit become preeminent. I'm of the opinion that democracy and universal suffrage creates as equal a system as we can hope for, my issue isn't with money or economies per say... the subject I was trying to broach was democratic ownership.
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    to be clear, I don't care if people are allowed to get rich. that's fine. If you're skilled enough to get rich, then you should be allowed to get rich. I hope that rich people are altruistic, and some are, but most aren't. whatever. what really, really rubs me raw is that we let people fall out of society and into nothingness. livable minimum wage should not even be a discussion. Free physical and mental healthcare should not even be a discussion. affordable housing should not even be a discussion - these are all table stakes for a society that is worthy of existing. No one should be left behind. be as rich as you like; just don't be so greedy that you take someone's ability to live freely away from them because you don't pay them enough, and now they can't afford rent or gas for their car. I guess that makes me either a socialist or someone in favor of very strong welfare policies, but whatever you want to call it, it's the bare minimum that a society should offer its citizens, imo. the whole point of a society or of a nation is that the citizens are taken care of, be it from foreign invader, or domestic threat. those kinds of things are why the collective resources of the people are pooled. that's the whole reason. i see no difference between people dying of poverty and people dying because of bombardment.

by leshow 4y ago

naikrovek 4y ago

there is no economic system which treats people equally, and there never will be, because it is the creation and use of money which turns good people into bad people. money is Aladdin's Lamp; money grants wishes, and no matter who you are or what you have, you will always want more. there will always be a non-zero number of people who want "more" enough that they feel it is ok that others suffer so that it be obtained. humans create economies wherever they go, and they always have. money takes no action on its own, so humans are the problem. we will be our own demise. our end will not be due to a supernova or space aliens or anything outside of our own control. we will destroy ourselves unless we somehow change ourselves enough that Aladdin's Lamp no longer holds sway over our lives. that will not happen for 100,000,000 generations of humanity, if it ever happens. it is in our very being to destroy things or people for personal gain, and everyone who thinks they are entitled to do it will do it. we may never truly fail as a species (though that is definitely within our reach today) but we will not succeed as a species, either. Aladdin's Lamp is always too close.

imtringued 4y ago
This may interest you: https://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/suhr/nngengl.html https://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehrigw/suhr/nngengl.html
leshow 4y ago
Money has existed for a long time, but only recently has the pursuit of profit become preeminent. I'm of the opinion that democracy and universal suffrage creates as equal a system as we can hope for, my issue isn't with money or economies per say... the subject I was trying to broach was democratic ownership.
- naikrovek 4y ago
  to be clear, I don't care if people are allowed to get rich. that's fine. If you're skilled enough to get rich, then you should be allowed to get rich. I hope that rich people are altruistic, and some are, but most aren't. whatever. what really, really rubs me raw is that we let people fall out of society and into nothingness. livable minimum wage should not even be a discussion. Free physical and mental healthcare should not even be a discussion. affordable housing should not even be a discussion - these are all table stakes for a society that is worthy of existing. No one should be left behind. be as rich as you like; just don't be so greedy that you take someone's ability to live freely away from them because you don't pay them enough, and now they can't afford rent or gas for their car. I guess that makes me either a socialist or someone in favor of very strong welfare policies, but whatever you want to call it, it's the bare minimum that a society should offer its citizens, imo. the whole point of a society or of a nation is that the citizens are taken care of, be it from foreign invader, or domestic threat. those kinds of things are why the collective resources of the people are pooled. that's the whole reason. i see no difference between people dying of poverty and people dying because of bombardment.