4 ms·

They used a bomb disposal robot with a pound of C4 attached to stop the Dallas gunman in 2016. People did not like talking about whether it was necessary or not

They used a bomb disposal robot with a pound of C4 attached to stop the Dallas gunman in 2016. People did not like talking about whether it was necessary or not at the time. > Sr. Cpl. Banes said they considered using a .50 caliber rifle to fire at the shooter, which had been successful in a similar attack on police 14 months earlier. However, in that case, the suspect had driven an armored truck into police headquarters and remained inside the armored vehicle. Johnson was holed up inside a populated college with thin sheetrock walls, so the tactical team deemed that approach too dangerous. They also considered rappelling down the building or attacking Johnson through the ceiling after opening it with explosives. Both options were ruled out due to the risks they might pose to the officers who would carry it out. > Senior Corporal Jeremy Borchardt and others ultimately arrived at the idea to use a bomb disposal remote control vehicle armed with about 1 pound (0.45 kilograms) of C-4 explosive. The plan was to move the robot to a point against a wall facing Johnson and then detonate the explosives. The device exploded as intended at approximately 2:30 a.m., killing Johnson immediately. It was the first time that explosives strapped to a robot had been used in American domestic law enforcement. Although its arm sustained damage in the blast, the robot was still functional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police...

mattrick 4y ago
It seems odd to me that a rifle was deemed too dangerous to use in a populated area but a pound of C4 strapped to a robot was acceptable.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The blast radius is much easier (cube law) whereas a .50 cal bullet could go for miles.
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  A bullet can travel further than a blast.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    And bounce in less predictable ways
- mattkrause 4y ago
  It seems odd to me they had a pound of C4 laying around! I suppose it's a demolition charge for deactivating bombs?
bombcar 4y ago
Strapping a bomb to a bomb disposal robot is so quintessentially American.
- cwillu 4y ago
  Don't ask for the bomb squad when you actually want the bomb removal squad.
woodruffw 4y ago
There was a decent amount of conversation about it at the time[1]. Looking back, the decision to kill a man (even a violent one with a gun) remotely, using a robot, is stunning. Particularly in light of the fact that the gunman wasn't targeting members of the public; instead, the police seem to have concluded that the most expedient way to handle him was to explode him. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/dallas-police-robot/490478/ https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/dallas-poli...
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Americans don't understand that their police forces are gangs. Yes, they have to follow the law and protocol. But the immediate second code they follow is brotherhood. When multiple officers are hurt or killed in action, they escalate the violence to the maximum extent possible, law be damned, as the AG and media is on their side and moves the spotlight away. Thankfully they usually consider public safety when they crack open the can of whoopass.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    I think BLM demonstrates many do in fact realize this. I would blame qualified immunity and civil asset seizure and hence our courts, before anyone else. If you give impunity to any group they’ll turn into thugs.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Haven’t we been killing people with drones for quite some time? The robot in question wasn’t autonomous. That’s where a line should be drawn IMO. But basically an RC car with a bomb on it doesn’t seem like a rubicon of any sort.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    We've been doing it in other countries for quite some time. But the domestic, civil setting of the 2016 bombing was somewhat unique: the police do not have the procedures, rules of engagement, etc. that the military is supposed to have. Is the 2016 bombing unique in a moral sense? I don't think so. But I do think it sets a concerning precedent in domestic law enforcement: if you're sufficiently difficult for the police to retrieve, they can simply blow you up instead of waiting to capture you.
Sebguer 4y ago
First time they strapped them to robots, maybe, but the police have a long and storied history of bombing folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing

mattrick 4y ago

It seems odd to me that a rifle was deemed too dangerous to use in a populated area but a pound of C4 strapped to a robot was acceptable.

bombcar 4y ago
The blast radius is much easier (cube law) whereas a .50 cal bullet could go for miles.
MerelyMortal 4y ago
A bullet can travel further than a blast.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  And bounce in less predictable ways
mattkrause 4y ago
It seems odd to me they had a pound of C4 laying around! I suppose it's a demolition charge for deactivating bombs?

bombcar 4y ago

Strapping a bomb to a bomb disposal robot is so quintessentially American.

cwillu 4y ago
Don't ask for the bomb squad when you actually want the bomb removal squad.

woodruffw 4y ago

There was a decent amount of conversation about it at the time[1]. Looking back, the decision to kill a man (even a violent one with a gun) remotely, using a robot, is stunning. Particularly in light of the fact that the gunman wasn't targeting members of the public; instead, the police seem to have concluded that the most expedient way to handle him was to explode him. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/dallas-police-robot/490478/ https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/07/dallas-poli...

orangepurple 4y ago
Americans don't understand that their police forces are gangs. Yes, they have to follow the law and protocol. But the immediate second code they follow is brotherhood. When multiple officers are hurt or killed in action, they escalate the violence to the maximum extent possible, law be damned, as the AG and media is on their side and moves the spotlight away. Thankfully they usually consider public safety when they crack open the can of whoopass.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  I think BLM demonstrates many do in fact realize this. I would blame qualified immunity and civil asset seizure and hence our courts, before anyone else. If you give impunity to any group they’ll turn into thugs.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Haven’t we been killing people with drones for quite some time? The robot in question wasn’t autonomous. That’s where a line should be drawn IMO. But basically an RC car with a bomb on it doesn’t seem like a rubicon of any sort.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  We've been doing it in other countries for quite some time. But the domestic, civil setting of the 2016 bombing was somewhat unique: the police do not have the procedures, rules of engagement, etc. that the military is supposed to have. Is the 2016 bombing unique in a moral sense? I don't think so. But I do think it sets a concerning precedent in domestic law enforcement: if you're sufficiently difficult for the police to retrieve, they can simply blow you up instead of waiting to capture you.

Sebguer 4y ago

First time they strapped them to robots, maybe, but the police have a long and storied history of bombing folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing