4 ms·

Thermodynamics. You can only extract work from a gradient

greenbit 4y ago
Nah, it's gravity. Money attracts money. It coalesces into dense lumps, a few thin clouds of gas, and a whole lot of very empty space.
- version_five 4y ago
  Money is basically the ability to get other people to do stuff for you. There have to be other people around worse off than you for that to work. Dense clumps of rich people are surrounded by people that will take their money to do stuff
- imtringued 4y ago
  That would imply money doesn't result in a nash equilibrium and that it is not very neutral.
dusted 4y ago
I'm with you on this.. There can only be rich countries if there are poor countries.. Otherwise there would just be.. countries.. One of the reasons that the standard of living is so high in rich countries, is because we're paying poor countries to do the work + pollution, if they had as much money as rich countries, they'd be unwilling to do that work/polution for that price, and the "true" price of the work would reveal itself.. In Denmark, the vast majority of what's consumed is not produced in Denmark, that'd be too expensive and nobody would afford it.. Being rich is not about how much money you have.. it's about how much MORE money you have than someone else.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Easy to say from an easy chair in a rich country. But that paying poor countries to do work, that's their current route out of poor. To take that away over some social-action-theatre objection is just cruel and thoughtless. From one point of view.
  - dusted 4y ago
    I'm not arguing that it's a good, just or right thing.. Only that it is. (this is not an argument for or against the status quo, only a statement of my interpretation of it) I'm also not suggesting any course of action (including inaction). I'm just saying that the way things are currently set up, it looks like rich countries are rich, but in fact, they're only rich in difference of wealth, that is, they're only able to sustain their high standards of living by the fact that other countries are substantially worse off, and so will provide them with goods and services at rates far lower than they themselves would be able or willing to work for. To be purely rich, a country would be able to maintain such standard of living entirely from using its own goods and services, which is rarely the case.. Except for the ultra-wealthy, most people in "rich" countries cannot actually afford to exclusively consume the goods and services produced by their peers.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      There are people who have been cocoa farmers their entire lives and they have never tasted chocolate. Kind of absurd.
  - serverholic 4y ago
    This seems like an emotional reaction to a very valid point. If everyone on earth had fair wages things would be far more expensive. Part of what makes your phone affordable is cheap labor in terrible conditions. What happens when those countries start to be less poor? The answer is that the rich countries will find another group of poor people to make their stuff. This is likely why rich people, like Bill Gates, are obsessed with Africa.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      When we find the magic wand to do that, I'm not sure I'd wave it but ok. 'Fair wages' is tossed around a lot. I'm not some money-grubbing oligarch but imagining you can control wages has a pretty bad track record. It's going to take more than talking about the end game, to come up with a game plan. Anyway, I don't think I'm being any more emotional that the knock-off remark I responded to. If I came off as reactionary I apologize.

Nah, it's gravity. Money attracts money. It coalesces into dense lumps, a few thin clouds of gas, and a whole lot of very empty space.

version_five 4y ago
Money is basically the ability to get other people to do stuff for you. There have to be other people around worse off than you for that to work. Dense clumps of rich people are surrounded by people that will take their money to do stuff
imtringued 4y ago
That would imply money doesn't result in a nash equilibrium and that it is not very neutral.

dusted 4y ago

I'm with you on this.. There can only be rich countries if there are poor countries.. Otherwise there would just be.. countries.. One of the reasons that the standard of living is so high in rich countries, is because we're paying poor countries to do the work + pollution, if they had as much money as rich countries, they'd be unwilling to do that work/polution for that price, and the "true" price of the work would reveal itself.. In Denmark, the vast majority of what's consumed is not produced in Denmark, that'd be too expensive and nobody would afford it.. Being rich is not about how much money you have.. it's about how much MORE money you have than someone else.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Easy to say from an easy chair in a rich country. But that paying poor countries to do work, that's their current route out of poor. To take that away over some social-action-theatre objection is just cruel and thoughtless. From one point of view.
- dusted 4y ago
  I'm not arguing that it's a good, just or right thing.. Only that it is. (this is not an argument for or against the status quo, only a statement of my interpretation of it) I'm also not suggesting any course of action (including inaction). I'm just saying that the way things are currently set up, it looks like rich countries are rich, but in fact, they're only rich in difference of wealth, that is, they're only able to sustain their high standards of living by the fact that other countries are substantially worse off, and so will provide them with goods and services at rates far lower than they themselves would be able or willing to work for. To be purely rich, a country would be able to maintain such standard of living entirely from using its own goods and services, which is rarely the case.. Except for the ultra-wealthy, most people in "rich" countries cannot actually afford to exclusively consume the goods and services produced by their peers.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    There are people who have been cocoa farmers their entire lives and they have never tasted chocolate. Kind of absurd.
- serverholic 4y ago
  This seems like an emotional reaction to a very valid point. If everyone on earth had fair wages things would be far more expensive. Part of what makes your phone affordable is cheap labor in terrible conditions. What happens when those countries start to be less poor? The answer is that the rich countries will find another group of poor people to make their stuff. This is likely why rich people, like Bill Gates, are obsessed with Africa.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    When we find the magic wand to do that, I'm not sure I'd wave it but ok. 'Fair wages' is tossed around a lot. I'm not some money-grubbing oligarch but imagining you can control wages has a pretty bad track record. It's going to take more than talking about the end game, to come up with a game plan. Anyway, I don't think I'm being any more emotional that the knock-off remark I responded to. If I came off as reactionary I apologize.