4 ms·

Have you considered you might not know as much about how the law actually works as the lawyer does? Definitions of terms might come from lots of places other th

Have you considered you might not know as much about how the law actually works as the lawyer does? Definitions of terms might come from lots of places other than the contract in question (laws, regulations, court precedent, etc.).

bmitc 4y ago
Well, of course, that’s what I mean, and that’s the point. A contract is not some logical document that you can just read and understand. You “need” a lawyer to interpret with all sorts of hidden assumptions and communicate with all the other lawyers. We had an issue pop up after we bought our house, and our own lawyer was incapable of explaining why we weren’t covered although the contract had language to say that we might be. I pointed out several times that a thing was poorly defined, only be referred to some other section, where’d I’d need to point out that it was also poorly defined. It’s a very insular system that only makes sense to the lawyers, where you have to basically literally sign your financial life away without being able to understand everything. And the lawyers are really not willing to go through it. In my state, it’s required for them to be involved in home purchases, and so they’re on autopilot. Also, the lawyer would send something and ask us to sign the same day. Try sending a lawyer something and asking them to sign the same day. It’s not gonna happen. After reading the document myself, I found several typos, including a few serious ones (incorrect dollar amounts of coverage), and the lawyer acted like it was no big deal and almost annoyed that she needed to correct the mistakes, almost as if they weren’t even needed to be corrected. But the lawyer would constantly point to something as “you signed it! There’s nothing we can do.”. It was a strange dichotomy that the lawyers applied to the world. For them, they were loosey goosey towards us, never being clear in emails, but anytime you needed something from them, you got pointed in every direction but towards them. Even getting the final number to pay was an exercise in frustration. Lawyers cache everything in language that doesn’t pin them down in any way. They are like spiders weaving these webs throughout society. Silicon Valley really nailed how lawyers behave, especially the interaction between Hooli and Pied Piper’s lawyers. The lawyers create all these binding relationships but absolve themselves of anything and everything. https://youtu.be/M1Wl91bnAMI&t=4m29s https://youtu.be/M1Wl91bnAMI&t=4m29s
- jstarfish 4y ago
  > Lawyers cache everything in language that doesn’t pin them down in any way. They are like spiders weaving these webs throughout society. > The lawyers create all these binding relationships but absolve themselves of anything and everything. Lawyers are professional social engineers...they achieve their goals through manipulation of the social fabric. There's a reason so many go on to become politicians.
  - tbrownaw 4y ago
    > There's a reason so many go on to become politicians. And there's a reason programmers like writing programming tools as well. And a reason some gamers seem to think game dev is cool. I suspect that all three are somewhat the same reason.
    - smaudet 4y ago
      Burnt out programmers take up crafts/hobbies, burnt out gamers do, I don't know, drugs? And burnt out lawyers? Sow mayhem or become philanthropists?
- 1123581321 4y ago
  They aren’t all like that. You should’ve fired her and hired another. That video is full of clips of a lawyer speaking candidly and clearly, too, and offering to shred a document that was just signed. :)
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    It's a protected job with no real oversight. Once you qualify you can be terrible at it and still continue working. In the UK the only thing that will get you struck off is embezzlement of client funds. In other words, a crime. You may get struck off for deliberately lying to a client, but that depends somewhat on the niche and on plausible deniability. The likelihood goes up the more prestigious and corporate the clients are. Otherwise, for basic everyday work like property conveyancing, you can minimum-effort paper push and no one will call you on it. Doctors, accountants and some parts of software dev can get by with a similar phone-it-in culture. You can be mediocre/bad and in some situations no one will notice and/or care.

bmitc 4y ago

Well, of course, that’s what I mean, and that’s the point. A contract is not some logical document that you can just read and understand. You “need” a lawyer to interpret with all sorts of hidden assumptions and communicate with all the other lawyers. We had an issue pop up after we bought our house, and our own lawyer was incapable of explaining why we weren’t covered although the contract had language to say that we might be. I pointed out several times that a thing was poorly defined, only be referred to some other section, where’d I’d need to point out that it was also poorly defined. It’s a very insular system that only makes sense to the lawyers, where you have to basically literally sign your financial life away without being able to understand everything. And the lawyers are really not willing to go through it. In my state, it’s required for them to be involved in home purchases, and so they’re on autopilot. Also, the lawyer would send something and ask us to sign the same day. Try sending a lawyer something and asking them to sign the same day. It’s not gonna happen. After reading the document myself, I found several typos, including a few serious ones (incorrect dollar amounts of coverage), and the lawyer acted like it was no big deal and almost annoyed that she needed to correct the mistakes, almost as if they weren’t even needed to be corrected. But the lawyer would constantly point to something as “you signed it! There’s nothing we can do.”. It was a strange dichotomy that the lawyers applied to the world. For them, they were loosey goosey towards us, never being clear in emails, but anytime you needed something from them, you got pointed in every direction but towards them. Even getting the final number to pay was an exercise in frustration. Lawyers cache everything in language that doesn’t pin them down in any way. They are like spiders weaving these webs throughout society. Silicon Valley really nailed how lawyers behave, especially the interaction between Hooli and Pied Piper’s lawyers. The lawyers create all these binding relationships but absolve themselves of anything and everything. https://youtu.be/M1Wl91bnAMI&t=4m29s https://youtu.be/M1Wl91bnAMI&t=4m29s

jstarfish 4y ago
> Lawyers cache everything in language that doesn’t pin them down in any way. They are like spiders weaving these webs throughout society. > The lawyers create all these binding relationships but absolve themselves of anything and everything. Lawyers are professional social engineers...they achieve their goals through manipulation of the social fabric. There's a reason so many go on to become politicians.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  > There's a reason so many go on to become politicians. And there's a reason programmers like writing programming tools as well. And a reason some gamers seem to think game dev is cool. I suspect that all three are somewhat the same reason.
  - smaudet 4y ago
    Burnt out programmers take up crafts/hobbies, burnt out gamers do, I don't know, drugs? And burnt out lawyers? Sow mayhem or become philanthropists?
1123581321 4y ago
They aren’t all like that. You should’ve fired her and hired another. That video is full of clips of a lawyer speaking candidly and clearly, too, and offering to shred a document that was just signed. :)
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  It's a protected job with no real oversight. Once you qualify you can be terrible at it and still continue working. In the UK the only thing that will get you struck off is embezzlement of client funds. In other words, a crime. You may get struck off for deliberately lying to a client, but that depends somewhat on the niche and on plausible deniability. The likelihood goes up the more prestigious and corporate the clients are. Otherwise, for basic everyday work like property conveyancing, you can minimum-effort paper push and no one will call you on it. Doctors, accountants and some parts of software dev can get by with a similar phone-it-in culture. You can be mediocre/bad and in some situations no one will notice and/or care.