3 ms·

HN mantra: * telemetry is evil * if the product is free (Firefox), you are the product

by 323 4y ago

xeromal 4y ago
So say we all
mcdonje 4y ago
I get the saying. But in this case, Mozilla gets most of its money from search royalties, primarily from Google. We are Google's product, not Firefox's.
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  It's both. Firefox sell you to Google, Google sell you to advertisers. It seems Firefox executives take a large chunk of money from Google; presumably to make sure Firefox doesn't do anything too wild that would reduce Googles income.
  - derefr 4y ago
    > presumably to make sure Firefox doesn't do anything too wild I wonder how much of what the Tor Browser version of Firefox does, would be upstreamed to Firefox proper, if not for that deal? (I wonder how much the Firefox team considers Tor Browser to be "the real Firefox" / "Firefox the way we intended", with Firefox itself just being "the sell-out version of Firefox"?)
  - Cerium 4y ago
    Instead of viewing the situation as Firefox selling me down the river to Google, I like to view it as an opportunity for collective bargaining. Firefox is my union representative. They are better able to fight for my interests against Google than should I go it alone and use Chrome.
    - avian 4y ago
      What motivation does Firefox have to fight for your interests?
      - _ea1k 4y ago
        People use it purely for that reason. If they don't, their usage will drop, which will reduce their revenue. The fact that this revenue comes from Google is largely a byproduct. Its not a perfect system, but it should somewhat work.
      - Cerium 4y ago
        I'm not sure - I guess the same motivation that supports the open source movement. I am satisfied that the actions Firefox has taken so far does tend to support my interests.
        eitland 4y ago
        Kind of. I love updates like this. But many of us who used it from the start think it was a much better browser before. For a long so much was sacrificed for next to no improvement. For me it was more or less rock solid at >800 tabs and with a lot less memory and more exciting extensions than I have now. I admit this wasn't everyones experience, but as a superuser tool it has degraded a lot over the years. That said it is still the best browser for me: I don't think anyone else except Orion (which is Mac only) has actual tree style tabs (not to be confused with vertical, non indented tabs as seen in Opera derivatives).
      - sfink 4y ago
        continued existence
dibt 4y ago
curl, sqlite, awk, etc. They're all free. Am I the product?

HN mantra: * telemetry is evil * if the product is free (Firefox), you are the product

by 323 4y ago

HN mantra: * telemetry is evil * if the product is free (Firefox), you are the product

xeromal 4y ago

So say we all

mcdonje 4y ago

I get the saying. But in this case, Mozilla gets most of its money from search royalties, primarily from Google. We are Google's product, not Firefox's.

pbhjpbhj 4y ago
It's both. Firefox sell you to Google, Google sell you to advertisers. It seems Firefox executives take a large chunk of money from Google; presumably to make sure Firefox doesn't do anything too wild that would reduce Googles income.
- derefr 4y ago
  > presumably to make sure Firefox doesn't do anything too wild I wonder how much of what the Tor Browser version of Firefox does, would be upstreamed to Firefox proper, if not for that deal? (I wonder how much the Firefox team considers Tor Browser to be "the real Firefox" / "Firefox the way we intended", with Firefox itself just being "the sell-out version of Firefox"?)
- Cerium 4y ago
  Instead of viewing the situation as Firefox selling me down the river to Google, I like to view it as an opportunity for collective bargaining. Firefox is my union representative. They are better able to fight for my interests against Google than should I go it alone and use Chrome.
  - avian 4y ago
    What motivation does Firefox have to fight for your interests?
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      People use it purely for that reason. If they don't, their usage will drop, which will reduce their revenue. The fact that this revenue comes from Google is largely a byproduct. Its not a perfect system, but it should somewhat work.
    - Cerium 4y ago
      I'm not sure - I guess the same motivation that supports the open source movement. I am satisfied that the actions Firefox has taken so far does tend to support my interests.
      - eitland 4y ago
        Kind of. I love updates like this. But many of us who used it from the start think it was a much better browser before. For a long so much was sacrificed for next to no improvement. For me it was more or less rock solid at >800 tabs and with a lot less memory and more exciting extensions than I have now. I admit this wasn't everyones experience, but as a superuser tool it has degraded a lot over the years. That said it is still the best browser for me: I don't think anyone else except Orion (which is Mac only) has actual tree style tabs (not to be confused with vertical, non indented tabs as seen in Opera derivatives).
    - sfink 4y ago
      continued existence

dibt 4y ago

curl, sqlite, awk, etc. They're all free. Am I the product?