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Please watch the presentation of cpp2 by herb sutter. It's interesting to see how difficult C++ is to teach. I really really want cpp2 to succeed.

by jokoon 4y ago

boppo1 4y ago
I'm a "new"[0] programmer learning C++ from Stroustrup's Principles, mainly because I'm interested in graphics. I see stuff on HN and other tech boards about how terrible it is to work with C++ and how memory management will clothesline all novice and intermediate programmers. However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. The issues I can imagine are from other people writing poorly documented code and APIs, which, in my limited experience, is a ubiquitous problem. Can you elaborate on what makes C++ so difficult to teach/learn/use? [0] I've spent years messing around with python, JS, swift, and various frameworks. However that's been at a pretty naive level, understanding only variables, functions, and some pandas basics, but never any real OOP implementation or DS&A stuff.
- technoooooost 4y ago
  C++ gets much hate on hn for whatever reason. Modern c++ is easy to learn, intuitive and a joy to work with.
  - thecodedmessage 4y ago
    I'm happy you're happy, but I don't think that's most people's experience. Perhaps compared to pre-modern C++.
- simplotek 4y ago
  > I see stuff on HN and other tech boards about how terrible it is to work with C++ and how memory management will clothesline all novice and intermediate programmers. However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. Plenty of people around here desperately want to vindicate their personal bets regarding other languages and framworks, and consequently you see a multitude of poorly thought-through strawmen put up to try to denigrate the other choice and, by process if elimination, leave their personal choice as the one true choice. It's tiring. This obsession some Rust fanatics have regarding C++ drags on for over a decade, and it never changes. If they think it's so great, why waste so much time trying to drag down pseudo-rivals?
- npigrounet 4y ago
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. It's manageable for trivial examples such as you'd find in a learn-to-code book, but memory management is a huge issue for larger programs. The C++ Core Guidelines are mostly intended as a way of managing these issues in a somewhat general way (while still not going full Rust) and they're extremely complex.
- jokoon 4y ago
  Because the language is very very large. In inherits from C, which means it sometimes shares a few problems. The video I'm talking about shows that it's difficult to right "good modern C++" to avoid pitfalls. Of course I think it's much better than JS or swift. The immense strength of C++ is that it is an industrial language, it's a standard in the industry, and it has an ISO standard. You can do everything with it, and there a lot of existing code you can use, especially since you can also use existing C code and libraries.

Please watch the presentation of cpp2 by herb sutter. It's interesting to see how difficult C++ is to teach. I really really want cpp2 to succeed.

by jokoon 4y ago

Please watch the presentation of cpp2 by herb sutter. It's interesting to see how difficult C++ is to teach. I really really want cpp2 to succeed.

boppo1 4y ago

I'm a "new"[0] programmer learning C++ from Stroustrup's Principles, mainly because I'm interested in graphics. I see stuff on HN and other tech boards about how terrible it is to work with C++ and how memory management will clothesline all novice and intermediate programmers. However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. The issues I can imagine are from other people writing poorly documented code and APIs, which, in my limited experience, is a ubiquitous problem. Can you elaborate on what makes C++ so difficult to teach/learn/use? [0] I've spent years messing around with python, JS, swift, and various frameworks. However that's been at a pretty naive level, understanding only variables, functions, and some pandas basics, but never any real OOP implementation or DS&A stuff.

technoooooost 4y ago
C++ gets much hate on hn for whatever reason. Modern c++ is easy to learn, intuitive and a joy to work with.
- thecodedmessage 4y ago
  I'm happy you're happy, but I don't think that's most people's experience. Perhaps compared to pre-modern C++.
simplotek 4y ago
> I see stuff on HN and other tech boards about how terrible it is to work with C++ and how memory management will clothesline all novice and intermediate programmers. However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. Plenty of people around here desperately want to vindicate their personal bets regarding other languages and framworks, and consequently you see a multitude of poorly thought-through strawmen put up to try to denigrate the other choice and, by process if elimination, leave their personal choice as the one true choice. It's tiring. This obsession some Rust fanatics have regarding C++ drags on for over a decade, and it never changes. If they think it's so great, why waste so much time trying to drag down pseudo-rivals?
npigrounet 4y ago
zozbot234 4y ago
> However, the Stroustrup book makes it seem like it's pretty manageable. It's manageable for trivial examples such as you'd find in a learn-to-code book, but memory management is a huge issue for larger programs. The C++ Core Guidelines are mostly intended as a way of managing these issues in a somewhat general way (while still not going full Rust) and they're extremely complex.
jokoon 4y ago
Because the language is very very large. In inherits from C, which means it sometimes shares a few problems. The video I'm talking about shows that it's difficult to right "good modern C++" to avoid pitfalls. Of course I think it's much better than JS or swift. The immense strength of C++ is that it is an industrial language, it's a standard in the industry, and it has an ISO standard. You can do everything with it, and there a lot of existing code you can use, especially since you can also use existing C code and libraries.