41 ms·

Atlas OS: A Windows version designed for gamers

86 points by newswasboring 4y ago

ale42 4y ago
At a first glance it looks nice (the number of default processes reminds me of XP days...), but as always with this kind of project... is this legal, or will they get a DMCA complaint soon or later?
- Someone 4y ago
  https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas: Disclaimer By downloading, modifying, or utilizing any of these images, you agree to Microsoft's Terms (<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U...>). None of these images are pre-activated, you must use a genuine key. ⇒ it may avoid legal issues, but I wouldn’t guarantee that (are third parties allowed to even distribute the unmodified Windows ISO?
  - leeter 4y ago
    I seem to recall someone else getting in trouble for distributing Windows ISOs in the past. MS tends to get very touchy on that ostensibly for security reasons (which I actually get). They seem tend to look askance at scripts that strip down the OS but don't seem to otherwise care other than to tell people they won't get support while using said things.
    - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
      In the past many people were distributing binaries from Windows without Microsoft being very touchy. You can check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder You can also find customized failed build of Windows like Neptune, Chicago, Whistler, Longhorn etc. ISOs. One example: https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 I guess Microsoft thinks that ultimately, it gets people acquainted with Windows and even loving it.
      - nunobrito 4y ago
        Hello, I'm the developer of Winbuilder. Those builder projects exist specifically because they avoid distribuing ANY Microsoft binaries. You have to provide the installation files or ISO. The files are then extracted from there and used for building a new image. That is the reason why these hobby and sysadmin projects were able to exist for so long without legal issues from Microsoft. Distributing ISO images with Microsoft files like beta archive and now AtlasOS goes against the EULA conditions (assuming they are valid in your host country).
        JPLeRouzic 4y ago
        Hello, I admire your various works and contributions,
        nunobrito 4y ago
        Merci!
    - trynewideas 4y ago
      Might be thinking of Ninjutsu OS, which got a DMCA takedown in 2020 for distributing modified Windows installation ISOs "that heavily modify Windows 10 with a huge number of tweaks, mods and extra tools" for pentesting: https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-features-is-a-dmca-violation-microsoft-says-200611/ https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-featur... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 Complaint text: https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834cb4bc7cdc10679318e7 https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834c...
      - leeter 4y ago
        I think I saw that one; but the one that comes to mind is also: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-clueless-judges-to-send-man-to-jail-copying-software-it-gives-out-free/ https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-...
- newswasboring 4y ago
  I am not a member of the team or anything. I found this on tiktok. But it is open source so I checked the github repo. They do not distribute a pre-activated image, all images need to be activated using a windows key. So in that sense all they are really distributing is a configuration of windows, that is also mostly what their github repo[1] is. But I see the issue there too as I don't think even sharing unactivated windows is allowed. But worst comes to worst, they can prepare instructions on how to install their stuff with an image downloaded from microsoft website. They are not writing a new windows, its more like they are figuring out what bloat is there in windows and removing it. Edit: They actually already have instructions on how to use their scripts with a windows image downloaded from microsoft website [2] [1] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas [2] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    There's a breakdown on the legality of redistributing modified Windows ISOs by NTLite staff on their forum.[1] The Atlas team uses NTLite. Relevant bits: > You're permitted to only use official images provided by MSFT or authorized partners (VAR or reseller). You're not permitted to use a random image found on the Internet to start your customization (even with a valid license key). > You're not permitted to share copies of the original media, or any customized images you make. You can deploy images on behalf of another party who already owns a correct license for their own internal use. > Bottom line: You're allowed to modify a clean image if you own a license. You can't redistribute it, but you can share NTLite presets, scripts or instructions that allow other licensed users to perform the same work. Everyone must have their own OEM, retail or volume licenses. EDIT: They appear to be claiming "educational use"/EU 2009/24 protection, which, well. Good luck.[2] [1]: https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-legal-modifying-windows-with-ntlite.2402/#post-20130 https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-leg... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal
senttoschool 4y ago
1. Is it legal? 2. How did they get the source code for Windows? 3. How do they handle games that require newer DirectX versions? 4. What are the actual gaming performance improvements, if any?
- yuppie_scum 4y ago
  It doesn’t appear to actually be a compiled OS, more just a pre configured image for Win10
beardyw 4y ago
It seems that it modifies a Windows install by removing a lot of stuff.
LegitShady 4y ago
but who are they and why should I trust them to not have compromised the OS?
- jenscow 4y ago
  I don't know, but you can build the image yourself: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/tree/main/src https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/tree/main/src
- ocdtrekkie 4y ago
  Well, I mean they removed most of the security features of Windows. I think they arguably tell you on GitHub they compromised the OS...
baxuz 4y ago
Snake oil
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
> Atlas removes all types of tracking embedded within Windows and enforces hundreds of group policies to minimize data collection. Things outside the scope of Windows we cannot increase privacy for, such as websites you visit. The great thing about proprietary software that comes with spyware is, you can never be too sure.
- etu 4y ago
  It also removes things related to security of the actual device and possibly network if something bad spreads. It removes things such as: Windows Defender It also removes "Restore Points & System Reset", so I guess that when it breaks you have to do a fresh install. Source: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#13-whats-removed-in-atlas-os https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#13-whats-remov...
  - theCrowing 4y ago
    restore points are deprecated since 11
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Good. Antivirus software that insists on running in the background is horrible and largely unnecessary. A very significant portion of my family tech support has been about Windows Defender grinding systems to a half by keeping disk IO constantly at 100% in laptops with HDDs.
    - pie_flavor 4y ago
      It's unnecessary for users smart enough not to get viruses. Pretty necessary for users that aren't.
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        It's not rocket science. My mother is pretty tech illiterate but she's never gotten any viruses after I hosed the Win Defender off her laptop. She literally just checks her mail, streams netflix and visits a handful of news websites. Lots of users are like this. They can get by fine just with an adblocker and an occasional scan to be sure. Scanning the disk constantly is just ridiculous.
weberer 4y ago
This would have been cool 10 years ago, but nowadays it feels more like rearranging the chairs on a sinking ship. Windows is becoming more and more locked down, with increasing difficulty to disable the bundled bloatware. And every new update runs the risk of completely undoing all these customizations. Not to mention the MS legal team could pull the rug at any second. All this effort would be better spent on a Linux gaming distro such as SteamOS.
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  Why? Windows is what most gamers use and need
  - falcor84 4y ago
    I get "use", but why do gamers "need" Windows?
    - jahnu 4y ago
      Graphics drivers
      - weberer 4y ago
        What about them? Just select Linux from the OS dropdown. https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
        malmz 4y ago
        Installing Nvidia linux drivers directly from their website is a very bad idea im almost all cases
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      DirectX for starters. NVidia and AMD usually design their GPUs together with Microsoft, OpenGL and Vulkan then play catchup with extension spaghetti until some subset of it gets available as standard feature.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xeromal 4y ago
I used to do this all the time in XP days. I think I'll give it a shot on my gaming PC
dewey 4y ago
Even if he benchmarks on the website could be trusted, I don't see how saving a little bit of memory and running processes will make any difference on a gaming computer. Memory and running processes aren't the bottleneck. Definitely not worth the trouble of running some custom third party OS modifying software. If it would be aimed at making old computers useable for office work longer, then it might make sense but not on a computer used by gamers.
kokonoko 4y ago
How easy is it to enable/disable specific features for the final image? By default a lot of useful (for me at least) functionality seems to be removed.
dncornholio 4y ago
When I was young, I played Counter Strike pretty competitive and getting the most fps out of my system was really important. I always thought there would be a gaming ready OS. Not sure why it took so long. I always kept optimising my Windows.. disable auto updates, disable heartbleed, disable indexing, etc. I tried to find the source of every microstutter or fps drop. I am not sure when the shift happened, but it seems gamers don't value performance anymore like they did in the zero's and nineties. I actually love this build and will try it out. Even if it only gives me 4 fps more, it's a win.
- lbwtaylor 4y ago
  I think the large majority of gamers are GPU bound these days, and I'm suspicious that there's much you can tweak in the OS that improves GPU performance. Maybe I'm wrong and improving system latency helps. I feel like GPU frames cost like 3x CPU frames these days.
  - alisonatwork 4y ago
    This is the answer. It's obvious when you play games on a laptop with integrated graphics. You can tweak every in-game setting to the bare minimum and/or try to stop every service that's running outside of the game, and none of it makes a significant difference, because the core bottleneck is that there isn't a dedicated GPU. The other big bottleneck that existed 10+ years ago is that people still used spinning hard disks. Now we almost all have SSDs, a big chunk of load time and source of slowdowns due to background processes is gone.
- bobleeswagger 4y ago
  > disable heartbleed what
  - toastal 4y ago
    They would be meaning Heartbleed mitigations. Lotta folks do this on Linux too depending on their threat model just to compile the kernel faster or whatever.
Vanit 4y ago
Reminds me of the meme going around emulation forums 20 years ago about making a gaming distro that would be miraculously faster.
elteto 4y ago
And not a single mention of what it actually _does_. No docs, nothing. It may as well be malware for all I know.
- arc-in-space 4y ago
  Chasing down the link to the repo and then the wiki: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#contents https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#contents
- nikanj 4y ago
  The last time something similar reached the front page ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32434934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32434934 ), one of the key ”features” was the total removal of Windows Update. I can’t wait for the next wormable Windows exploit with all the un-upgradeable boxes out there
galuggus 4y ago
This is a great idea. How are you funding it?
0xAFFFF 4y ago
While the extra ram could be useful for some, I fail to see how the metrics they are using are relevant in any way. Having plenty of processes isn't supposed to be an issue with modern OSes and multicore CPUs and latency seems to be a non-issue they have a hard time explaining themselves. I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole.
oneepic 4y ago
If it's legal and Microsoft is ok with it, I guess I'm happy it exists! When I was a kid I remember poring over all kinds of stuff to make my games run well on the family PC. CCleaner, Disk Cleaner, Disk Defragmenter, turning off a bunch of Windows services and processes in Task Manager, and... there was one other questionable program I can't recall, that disabled a bunch of things when you ran it, then re-enabled it when you quit. I had Malwarebytes and SuperAntiSpyware, and tweaked the registry a bit, IIRC. My point is, it takes a lot of work to understand what can be turned off to squeeze out performance, but it sounds like something that benefits the user.
- notcowtools 4y ago
- pie_flavor 4y ago
  It's legal because it's a registry file and a few installers plus a desktop background. The performance gains are chiefly found by disabling important stuff like Defender.
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    The tweaks might be legal, but the modified Windows installation ISOs they're distributing VIA GITHUB probably aren't.[1][2] [1]: https://atlasos.net/downloads https://atlasos.net/downloads [2]: The download URLs are GitHub release assets distributed via https://objects.githubusercontent.com/ https://objects.githubusercontent.com/
antx 4y ago
> Atlas aims to be secure as possible without losing performance. We do this by disabling features that can leak information or be exploited. There are exceptions to this such as Spectre, and Meltdown. These mitigations are disabled to improve performance. If a security mitigation measure decreases performance, it will be disabled. haha, gave me a good laugh. thanks, but no thanks.
- e40 4y ago
  If you're using the system for gaming and not banking, this seems like a reasonable trade off.
  - antx 4y ago
    ... that is, until you connect to a malicious server that can exploit a local vulnerability. then you're screwed. Who only uses their machine explicitely for gaming?
    - e40 4y ago
      In there are lots of people who use Macs or Linux for everything but gaming and gaming for Windows. My son has a PC used for gaming and nothing else.
      - antx 4y ago
        Still. Imagine the following scenario: your son's machine is compromised because of said exploits. It's in the same network as your other systems. The attacker can now sniff all traffic, attack other systems. Do you have good network segmentation in place?
Kukumber 4y ago
It's very sad for microsoft that the community has to step up to unbloat their stuff Trillion dollar company can't be bothered to optimize their OS properly, or perhaps their workforce is not skilled enough They are already missing out on the handheld console market, it's all about linux/android I'm personally happy about it, the worse microsoft becomes, the better the competition becomes because it helps new actors emerge and proliferate (macOS, android, linux)
- LeifCarrotson 4y ago
  Windows already sells this as Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC - all the crapware, telemetry, and other bloat is stripped out leaving just the bare OS for installation in kiosks, industrial equipment, digital signage, point-of-sale systems, etc. It's designed to get minimally disruptive security updates, and defers feature updates as long as possible. It's not that the trillion dollar company can't be bothered to optimize the OS, it's that each division within the company needs to justify their own existence, and if they can sell a Candy Crush promotion in the start menu at the cost of some customer goodwill, that might be an ephemeral, unmeasurable $10M loss to Microsoft as a whole but a $1M profit, clearly described by a graph going up and to the right, and a promotion....for the middle manager who foisted Candy Crush on all of us. The problem is that LSTC is not available through retail channels. If you're interested in this because your startup wants to sell a Windows-based hardware product, buy a prebuilt system from OnLogic or similar.
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    Sounds like the same excuses i keep hear for over a decade already, i don't buy it, and i'll even say it's bullshit Apple had time to properly transition from PPC to Intel to ARM with their own chip, develop new experiences from Smartphone to Tablets to SmartWatch, Microsoft failed at all of them, including SERVERS!!, something they took for granted for decades So no, you can't just say "they have LSTC wich is a non bloated windows", no, the tech remains the same, the problems remains the same, they even lost the embedded market... c'mon Windows is being operated as if it was a students weekend school project, but he prefer to go play outside with his friends instead, friends that are now grow up adults with a beautiful house, smart kids and beautiful wife, microsoft is stuck with that hooker that try to sell him some qualcomm drugs
iLoveOncall 4y ago
The fact that there are no benchmarks on the official website beside the ridiculous claims about process count and "process latency" (whatever that means, they don't seem to know either) tells you everything you need to know. I'd stay far away.
mariusmg 4y ago
Calling a bunch of registry tweaks a pompous name like "Atlas OS" is funny.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Eh, why not? People call Ubuntu with a specific set of packages an "OS" all the time.
c7DJTLrn 4y ago
Windows "distros" like these are extremely shady. You're downloading gigabytes of unverifiable binaries and Microsoft will inevitably shut it down. Just use a basic Windows install and tweak it as little as possible, your life will be so much easier and you're not going to miss out on "performance tweaks" because they don't do shit in the first place.
- alar44 4y ago
  Yup the people who have problems with Windows are the ones who fuck their registry up with this hacky bullshit. Just leave everything alone and it works fine.
yosef123 4y ago
For anyone not interested in installing foreign OS, I like to use Chris Titus' tweaks. https://christitus.com/windows-tool/ https://christitus.com/windows-tool/
- trynewideas 4y ago
  What's fun is if you actually dig into the Atlas repo, it's primarily a pile of NTLite tweaks[1] plus a batch file that automatically applies a bunch of CTT tweaks, particularly the ones around updates and UWP that he explicitly doesn't recommend.[2] Anyway, Titus also has a guide on making a "custom Windows ISO" using NTLite.[3] [1]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/Atlas_20H2.xml https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/Atlas_20H2.x... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/AtlasModules/atlas-config.bat https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/AtlasModules... [3]: https://christitus.com/ntlite-guide/ https://christitus.com/ntlite-guide/
ergonaught 4y ago
It's fascinating watching the difference in concern with legality expressed over this versus z-library.
pie_flavor 4y ago
Windows sure does get easier to game on if you disable all the useless shit nobody needs, like the antivirus, the backup service, the accessibility features, device driver updates, the Japanese language, etc. (/s) And then there's all the utility programs removed, like Paint 3D and Calculator and that thing that lets you view SMS on your desktop. It's not like those impact performance at all - they're just trying to reclaim every last byte of disk space. They even disable the Xbox game overlay. I guess they just assume none of your games will be from the Microsoft store. This is not a system designed for gaming. This is a system only suitable for gaming. It is incompatible with a great deal of Windows software (why would you disable Unix socket support?), and a great deal of non-gaming workflows, and disables most of the security measures on the system (even UAC dialogs - any program asking for admin gets it automatically). The only kind of person I can think of that wouldn't regret installing this is someone dual-booting to use Windows for gaming and Linux for everything else.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  > They even disable the Xbox game overlay. I guess they just assume none of your games will be from the Microsoft store. They have a flag to effectively disable the store and UWP apps[1] so yeah, that's a safe guess. [1]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/a356ba84b52131d2130a6e7f63ff19ed6e1dbf91/src/AtlasModules/atlas-config.bat#L1270-L1297 https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/a356ba84b52131d2130a6...
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Wait, windows has other uses? I guess Excel isn't technically a game.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  It runs DOOM though. https://youtu.be/J2qU7t6Jmfw https://youtu.be/J2qU7t6Jmfw
asveikau 4y ago
These people do not know what they are doing. I'll pull out a random piece I saw reading their github. They remove support for Unix domain sockets. Why bother? How is that "hurting gaming"? What if a game wants to use af_unix sockets to implement some kind of IPC? What are the odds these people know what a Unix domain socket is when they decide to remove it to performance reasons? This is just a "break my apps" script.
- joenot443 4y ago
  Yeah, I don’t think this is a project made by someone with a formal SWE background. One of their blog posts talks about “Process Count” in Windows task manager. Apparently there’s a whole community who are into stamping out Windows processes? Amusing. > Throughout my time within the tweaking community I have seen an uncomfortably large amount of people who care WAY too much about their process count in Task Manager and break core functionality for a lower process count. https://zusier.xyz/blog/posts/process-count-doesnt-matter/ https://zusier.xyz/blog/posts/process-count-doesnt-matter/
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
trynewideas 4y ago
Custom Windows ISOs for gaming aren't new, they just don't surface into the mainstream that often because they mostly distribute through word of mouth, these days mostly via Discord, YouTube, and Tiktok.[1] One such ISO, EVA, was made by one of the AtlasOS contributors.[2] Though EVA raises another problem with this whole trend of ISO distributions over distributing the tweaks and install steps — it's trivial for a malicious actor to impersonate any of them and distribute a build full of exploits: > The custom ISO from the previous project is discontinued so please do not ask for it as it has been recreated with malware. The social, and typically decentralized, nature of the distribution means the only way to know a legit build is to already be inside the community distributing them. If you're not in the community and get hacked, nobody cares anyway. That's why I'm surprised AtlasOS has such a big presence, and uses GitHub to host their ISOs - they're kind of asking Microsoft to hit them, maybe in hopes of raising their profile. [1]: Several channels offer roundups and reviews of different ISOs with links buried in video descriptions or subtitles, such as https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSyKK_dtmNzCyp0O8TLVHAQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSyKK_dtmNzCyp0O8TLVHAQ [2]: https://github.com/amitxv/EVA https://github.com/amitxv/EVA
- amitxv 4y ago
  Hi, EVA is now a guide to create and tailor a Windows image to the user's needs, similar to Chris Titus Tech's tutorials except it is not a prebuilt ISO being distributed. I use built-in tools such as DISM to modify the image which is what other popular tools such as NTLite use.
jonathantf2 4y ago
I recommend getting a Windows 10 Pro ISO and running the Spiceworks Decrapifier (https://community.spiceworks.com/scripts/show/4378-windows-10-decrapifier-18xx-19xx-2xxx https://community.spiceworks.com/scripts/show/4378-windows-1...), this works very well and creates a much cleaner installation that can still run Xbox games and install apps from the store.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  This looks much more like what I would want. Thanks.
Eun 4y ago
The „Tiny“ versions from NTDEV are very popular. From Tiny7 to Tiny10 everything is available.
naufauna 4y ago
Yikes, from the FAQ, these are removed: “TPM (Trusted Platform Module), Windows Defender” There’s some bullshit hand-waving about “security” on the GitHub landing page, but what are they expecting people to do - install Norton?

86 points by newswasboring 4y ago

At a first glance it looks nice (the number of default processes reminds me of XP days...), but as always with this kind of project... is this legal, or will they get a DMCA complaint soon or later?

Someone 4y ago
https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas: Disclaimer By downloading, modifying, or utilizing any of these images, you agree to Microsoft's Terms (<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U...>). None of these images are pre-activated, you must use a genuine key. ⇒ it may avoid legal issues, but I wouldn’t guarantee that (are third parties allowed to even distribute the unmodified Windows ISO?
- leeter 4y ago
  I seem to recall someone else getting in trouble for distributing Windows ISOs in the past. MS tends to get very touchy on that ostensibly for security reasons (which I actually get). They seem tend to look askance at scripts that strip down the OS but don't seem to otherwise care other than to tell people they won't get support while using said things.
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    In the past many people were distributing binaries from Windows without Microsoft being very touchy. You can check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder You can also find customized failed build of Windows like Neptune, Chicago, Whistler, Longhorn etc. ISOs. One example: https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 I guess Microsoft thinks that ultimately, it gets people acquainted with Windows and even loving it.
    - nunobrito 4y ago
      Hello, I'm the developer of Winbuilder. Those builder projects exist specifically because they avoid distribuing ANY Microsoft binaries. You have to provide the installation files or ISO. The files are then extracted from there and used for building a new image. That is the reason why these hobby and sysadmin projects were able to exist for so long without legal issues from Microsoft. Distributing ISO images with Microsoft files like beta archive and now AtlasOS goes against the EULA conditions (assuming they are valid in your host country).
      - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
        Hello, I admire your various works and contributions,
        nunobrito 4y ago
        Merci!
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    Might be thinking of Ninjutsu OS, which got a DMCA takedown in 2020 for distributing modified Windows installation ISOs "that heavily modify Windows 10 with a huge number of tweaks, mods and extra tools" for pentesting: https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-features-is-a-dmca-violation-microsoft-says-200611/ https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-featur... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 Complaint text: https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834cb4bc7cdc10679318e7 https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834c...
    - leeter 4y ago
      I think I saw that one; but the one that comes to mind is also: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-clueless-judges-to-send-man-to-jail-copying-software-it-gives-out-free/ https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-...
newswasboring 4y ago
I am not a member of the team or anything. I found this on tiktok. But it is open source so I checked the github repo. They do not distribute a pre-activated image, all images need to be activated using a windows key. So in that sense all they are really distributing is a configuration of windows, that is also mostly what their github repo[1] is. But I see the issue there too as I don't think even sharing unactivated windows is allowed. But worst comes to worst, they can prepare instructions on how to install their stuff with an image downloaded from microsoft website. They are not writing a new windows, its more like they are figuring out what bloat is there in windows and removing it. Edit: They actually already have instructions on how to use their scripts with a windows image downloaded from microsoft website [2] [1] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas [2] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md
- trynewideas 4y ago
  There's a breakdown on the legality of redistributing modified Windows ISOs by NTLite staff on their forum.[1] The Atlas team uses NTLite. Relevant bits: > You're permitted to only use official images provided by MSFT or authorized partners (VAR or reseller). You're not permitted to use a random image found on the Internet to start your customization (even with a valid license key). > You're not permitted to share copies of the original media, or any customized images you make. You can deploy images on behalf of another party who already owns a correct license for their own internal use. > Bottom line: You're allowed to modify a clean image if you own a license. You can't redistribute it, but you can share NTLite presets, scripts or instructions that allow other licensed users to perform the same work. Everyone must have their own OEM, retail or volume licenses. EDIT: They appear to be claiming "educational use"/EU 2009/24 protection, which, well. Good luck.[2] [1]: https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-legal-modifying-windows-with-ntlite.2402/#post-20130 https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-leg... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal

senttoschool 4y ago

1. Is it legal? 2. How did they get the source code for Windows? 3. How do they handle games that require newer DirectX versions? 4. What are the actual gaming performance improvements, if any?

yuppie_scum 4y ago
It doesn’t appear to actually be a compiled OS, more just a pre configured image for Win10

beardyw 4y ago

It seems that it modifies a Windows install by removing a lot of stuff.

LegitShady 4y ago

but who are they and why should I trust them to not have compromised the OS?

jenscow 4y ago
I don't know, but you can build the image yourself: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/tree/main/src https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/tree/main/src
ocdtrekkie 4y ago
Well, I mean they removed most of the security features of Windows. I think they arguably tell you on GitHub they compromised the OS...

baxuz 4y ago

Snake oil

NayamAmarshe 4y ago

> Atlas removes all types of tracking embedded within Windows and enforces hundreds of group policies to minimize data collection. Things outside the scope of Windows we cannot increase privacy for, such as websites you visit. The great thing about proprietary software that comes with spyware is, you can never be too sure.

etu 4y ago
It also removes things related to security of the actual device and possibly network if something bad spreads. It removes things such as: Windows Defender It also removes "Restore Points & System Reset", so I guess that when it breaks you have to do a fresh install. Source: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#13-whats-removed-in-atlas-os https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#13-whats-remov...
- theCrowing 4y ago
  restore points are deprecated since 11
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Good. Antivirus software that insists on running in the background is horrible and largely unnecessary. A very significant portion of my family tech support has been about Windows Defender grinding systems to a half by keeping disk IO constantly at 100% in laptops with HDDs.
  - pie_flavor 4y ago
    It's unnecessary for users smart enough not to get viruses. Pretty necessary for users that aren't.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      It's not rocket science. My mother is pretty tech illiterate but she's never gotten any viruses after I hosed the Win Defender off her laptop. She literally just checks her mail, streams netflix and visits a handful of news websites. Lots of users are like this. They can get by fine just with an adblocker and an occasional scan to be sure. Scanning the disk constantly is just ridiculous.

weberer 4y ago

This would have been cool 10 years ago, but nowadays it feels more like rearranging the chairs on a sinking ship. Windows is becoming more and more locked down, with increasing difficulty to disable the bundled bloatware. And every new update runs the risk of completely undoing all these customizations. Not to mention the MS legal team could pull the rug at any second. All this effort would be better spent on a Linux gaming distro such as SteamOS.

ChildOfChaos 4y ago
Why? Windows is what most gamers use and need
- falcor84 4y ago
  I get "use", but why do gamers "need" Windows?
  - jahnu 4y ago
    Graphics drivers
    - weberer 4y ago
      What about them? Just select Linux from the OS dropdown. https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
      - malmz 4y ago
        Installing Nvidia linux drivers directly from their website is a very bad idea im almost all cases
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    DirectX for starters. NVidia and AMD usually design their GPUs together with Microsoft, OpenGL and Vulkan then play catchup with extension spaghetti until some subset of it gets available as standard feature.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

xeromal 4y ago

I used to do this all the time in XP days. I think I'll give it a shot on my gaming PC

dewey 4y ago

Even if he benchmarks on the website could be trusted, I don't see how saving a little bit of memory and running processes will make any difference on a gaming computer. Memory and running processes aren't the bottleneck. Definitely not worth the trouble of running some custom third party OS modifying software. If it would be aimed at making old computers useable for office work longer, then it might make sense but not on a computer used by gamers.

kokonoko 4y ago

How easy is it to enable/disable specific features for the final image? By default a lot of useful (for me at least) functionality seems to be removed.

dncornholio 4y ago

When I was young, I played Counter Strike pretty competitive and getting the most fps out of my system was really important. I always thought there would be a gaming ready OS. Not sure why it took so long. I always kept optimising my Windows.. disable auto updates, disable heartbleed, disable indexing, etc. I tried to find the source of every microstutter or fps drop. I am not sure when the shift happened, but it seems gamers don't value performance anymore like they did in the zero's and nineties. I actually love this build and will try it out. Even if it only gives me 4 fps more, it's a win.

lbwtaylor 4y ago
I think the large majority of gamers are GPU bound these days, and I'm suspicious that there's much you can tweak in the OS that improves GPU performance. Maybe I'm wrong and improving system latency helps. I feel like GPU frames cost like 3x CPU frames these days.
- alisonatwork 4y ago
  This is the answer. It's obvious when you play games on a laptop with integrated graphics. You can tweak every in-game setting to the bare minimum and/or try to stop every service that's running outside of the game, and none of it makes a significant difference, because the core bottleneck is that there isn't a dedicated GPU. The other big bottleneck that existed 10+ years ago is that people still used spinning hard disks. Now we almost all have SSDs, a big chunk of load time and source of slowdowns due to background processes is gone.
bobleeswagger 4y ago
> disable heartbleed what
- toastal 4y ago
  They would be meaning Heartbleed mitigations. Lotta folks do this on Linux too depending on their threat model just to compile the kernel faster or whatever.

Vanit 4y ago

Reminds me of the meme going around emulation forums 20 years ago about making a gaming distro that would be miraculously faster.

elteto 4y ago

And not a single mention of what it actually _does_. No docs, nothing. It may as well be malware for all I know.

arc-in-space 4y ago
Chasing down the link to the repo and then the wiki: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#contents https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/1.-FAQ#contents
nikanj 4y ago
The last time something similar reached the front page ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32434934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32434934 ), one of the key ”features” was the total removal of Windows Update. I can’t wait for the next wormable Windows exploit with all the un-upgradeable boxes out there

galuggus 4y ago

This is a great idea. How are you funding it?

0xAFFFF 4y ago

While the extra ram could be useful for some, I fail to see how the metrics they are using are relevant in any way. Having plenty of processes isn't supposed to be an issue with modern OSes and multicore CPUs and latency seems to be a non-issue they have a hard time explaining themselves. I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole.

oneepic 4y ago

If it's legal and Microsoft is ok with it, I guess I'm happy it exists! When I was a kid I remember poring over all kinds of stuff to make my games run well on the family PC. CCleaner, Disk Cleaner, Disk Defragmenter, turning off a bunch of Windows services and processes in Task Manager, and... there was one other questionable program I can't recall, that disabled a bunch of things when you ran it, then re-enabled it when you quit. I had Malwarebytes and SuperAntiSpyware, and tweaked the registry a bit, IIRC. My point is, it takes a lot of work to understand what can be turned off to squeeze out performance, but it sounds like something that benefits the user.

notcowtools 4y ago
pie_flavor 4y ago
It's legal because it's a registry file and a few installers plus a desktop background. The performance gains are chiefly found by disabling important stuff like Defender.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  The tweaks might be legal, but the modified Windows installation ISOs they're distributing VIA GITHUB probably aren't.[1][2] [1]: https://atlasos.net/downloads https://atlasos.net/downloads [2]: The download URLs are GitHub release assets distributed via https://objects.githubusercontent.com/ https://objects.githubusercontent.com/

antx 4y ago

> Atlas aims to be secure as possible without losing performance. We do this by disabling features that can leak information or be exploited. There are exceptions to this such as Spectre, and Meltdown. These mitigations are disabled to improve performance. If a security mitigation measure decreases performance, it will be disabled. haha, gave me a good laugh. thanks, but no thanks.

e40 4y ago
If you're using the system for gaming and not banking, this seems like a reasonable trade off.
- antx 4y ago
  ... that is, until you connect to a malicious server that can exploit a local vulnerability. then you're screwed. Who only uses their machine explicitely for gaming?
  - e40 4y ago
    In there are lots of people who use Macs or Linux for everything but gaming and gaming for Windows. My son has a PC used for gaming and nothing else.
    - antx 4y ago
      Still. Imagine the following scenario: your son's machine is compromised because of said exploits. It's in the same network as your other systems. The attacker can now sniff all traffic, attack other systems. Do you have good network segmentation in place?

Kukumber 4y ago

It's very sad for microsoft that the community has to step up to unbloat their stuff Trillion dollar company can't be bothered to optimize their OS properly, or perhaps their workforce is not skilled enough They are already missing out on the handheld console market, it's all about linux/android I'm personally happy about it, the worse microsoft becomes, the better the competition becomes because it helps new actors emerge and proliferate (macOS, android, linux)

LeifCarrotson 4y ago
Windows already sells this as Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC - all the crapware, telemetry, and other bloat is stripped out leaving just the bare OS for installation in kiosks, industrial equipment, digital signage, point-of-sale systems, etc. It's designed to get minimally disruptive security updates, and defers feature updates as long as possible. It's not that the trillion dollar company can't be bothered to optimize the OS, it's that each division within the company needs to justify their own existence, and if they can sell a Candy Crush promotion in the start menu at the cost of some customer goodwill, that might be an ephemeral, unmeasurable $10M loss to Microsoft as a whole but a $1M profit, clearly described by a graph going up and to the right, and a promotion....for the middle manager who foisted Candy Crush on all of us. The problem is that LSTC is not available through retail channels. If you're interested in this because your startup wants to sell a Windows-based hardware product, buy a prebuilt system from OnLogic or similar.
- Kukumber 4y ago
  Sounds like the same excuses i keep hear for over a decade already, i don't buy it, and i'll even say it's bullshit Apple had time to properly transition from PPC to Intel to ARM with their own chip, develop new experiences from Smartphone to Tablets to SmartWatch, Microsoft failed at all of them, including SERVERS!!, something they took for granted for decades So no, you can't just say "they have LSTC wich is a non bloated windows", no, the tech remains the same, the problems remains the same, they even lost the embedded market... c'mon Windows is being operated as if it was a students weekend school project, but he prefer to go play outside with his friends instead, friends that are now grow up adults with a beautiful house, smart kids and beautiful wife, microsoft is stuck with that hooker that try to sell him some qualcomm drugs

iLoveOncall 4y ago

The fact that there are no benchmarks on the official website beside the ridiculous claims about process count and "process latency" (whatever that means, they don't seem to know either) tells you everything you need to know. I'd stay far away.

mariusmg 4y ago

Calling a bunch of registry tweaks a pompous name like "Atlas OS" is funny.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Eh, why not? People call Ubuntu with a specific set of packages an "OS" all the time.

c7DJTLrn 4y ago

Windows "distros" like these are extremely shady. You're downloading gigabytes of unverifiable binaries and Microsoft will inevitably shut it down. Just use a basic Windows install and tweak it as little as possible, your life will be so much easier and you're not going to miss out on "performance tweaks" because they don't do shit in the first place.

alar44 4y ago
Yup the people who have problems with Windows are the ones who fuck their registry up with this hacky bullshit. Just leave everything alone and it works fine.

yosef123 4y ago

For anyone not interested in installing foreign OS, I like to use Chris Titus' tweaks. https://christitus.com/windows-tool/ https://christitus.com/windows-tool/

trynewideas 4y ago
What's fun is if you actually dig into the Atlas repo, it's primarily a pile of NTLite tweaks[1] plus a batch file that automatically applies a bunch of CTT tweaks, particularly the ones around updates and UWP that he explicitly doesn't recommend.[2] Anyway, Titus also has a guide on making a "custom Windows ISO" using NTLite.[3] [1]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/Atlas_20H2.xml https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/Atlas_20H2.x... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/AtlasModules/atlas-config.bat https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/AtlasModules... [3]: https://christitus.com/ntlite-guide/ https://christitus.com/ntlite-guide/

ergonaught 4y ago

It's fascinating watching the difference in concern with legality expressed over this versus z-library.

pie_flavor 4y ago

Windows sure does get easier to game on if you disable all the useless shit nobody needs, like the antivirus, the backup service, the accessibility features, device driver updates, the Japanese language, etc. (/s) And then there's all the utility programs removed, like Paint 3D and Calculator and that thing that lets you view SMS on your desktop. It's not like those impact performance at all - they're just trying to reclaim every last byte of disk space. They even disable the Xbox game overlay. I guess they just assume none of your games will be from the Microsoft store. This is not a system designed for gaming. This is a system only suitable for gaming. It is incompatible with a great deal of Windows software (why would you disable Unix socket support?), and a great deal of non-gaming workflows, and disables most of the security measures on the system (even UAC dialogs - any program asking for admin gets it automatically). The only kind of person I can think of that wouldn't regret installing this is someone dual-booting to use Windows for gaming and Linux for everything else.

trynewideas 4y ago
> They even disable the Xbox game overlay. I guess they just assume none of your games will be from the Microsoft store. They have a flag to effectively disable the store and UWP apps[1] so yeah, that's a safe guess. [1]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/a356ba84b52131d2130a6e7f63ff19ed6e1dbf91/src/AtlasModules/atlas-config.bat#L1270-L1297 https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/a356ba84b52131d2130a6...

LAC-Tech 4y ago

Wait, windows has other uses? I guess Excel isn't technically a game.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
It runs DOOM though. https://youtu.be/J2qU7t6Jmfw https://youtu.be/J2qU7t6Jmfw

asveikau 4y ago

These people do not know what they are doing. I'll pull out a random piece I saw reading their github. They remove support for Unix domain sockets. Why bother? How is that "hurting gaming"? What if a game wants to use af_unix sockets to implement some kind of IPC? What are the odds these people know what a Unix domain socket is when they decide to remove it to performance reasons? This is just a "break my apps" script.

joenot443 4y ago
Yeah, I don’t think this is a project made by someone with a formal SWE background. One of their blog posts talks about “Process Count” in Windows task manager. Apparently there’s a whole community who are into stamping out Windows processes? Amusing. > Throughout my time within the tweaking community I have seen an uncomfortably large amount of people who care WAY too much about their process count in Task Manager and break core functionality for a lower process count. https://zusier.xyz/blog/posts/process-count-doesnt-matter/ https://zusier.xyz/blog/posts/process-count-doesnt-matter/
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

trynewideas 4y ago

Custom Windows ISOs for gaming aren't new, they just don't surface into the mainstream that often because they mostly distribute through word of mouth, these days mostly via Discord, YouTube, and Tiktok.[1] One such ISO, EVA, was made by one of the AtlasOS contributors.[2] Though EVA raises another problem with this whole trend of ISO distributions over distributing the tweaks and install steps — it's trivial for a malicious actor to impersonate any of them and distribute a build full of exploits: > The custom ISO from the previous project is discontinued so please do not ask for it as it has been recreated with malware. The social, and typically decentralized, nature of the distribution means the only way to know a legit build is to already be inside the community distributing them. If you're not in the community and get hacked, nobody cares anyway. That's why I'm surprised AtlasOS has such a big presence, and uses GitHub to host their ISOs - they're kind of asking Microsoft to hit them, maybe in hopes of raising their profile. [1]: Several channels offer roundups and reviews of different ISOs with links buried in video descriptions or subtitles, such as https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSyKK_dtmNzCyp0O8TLVHAQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSyKK_dtmNzCyp0O8TLVHAQ [2]: https://github.com/amitxv/EVA https://github.com/amitxv/EVA

amitxv 4y ago
Hi, EVA is now a guide to create and tailor a Windows image to the user's needs, similar to Chris Titus Tech's tutorials except it is not a prebuilt ISO being distributed. I use built-in tools such as DISM to modify the image which is what other popular tools such as NTLite use.

jonathantf2 4y ago

I recommend getting a Windows 10 Pro ISO and running the Spiceworks Decrapifier (https://community.spiceworks.com/scripts/show/4378-windows-10-decrapifier-18xx-19xx-2xxx https://community.spiceworks.com/scripts/show/4378-windows-1...), this works very well and creates a much cleaner installation that can still run Xbox games and install apps from the store.

thomastjeffery 4y ago
This looks much more like what I would want. Thanks.

Eun 4y ago

The „Tiny“ versions from NTDEV are very popular. From Tiny7 to Tiny10 everything is available.

naufauna 4y ago

Yikes, from the FAQ, these are removed: “TPM (Trusted Platform Module), Windows Defender” There’s some bullshit hand-waving about “security” on the GitHub landing page, but what are they expecting people to do - install Norton?