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European teams ditch pro-LGBTQ+ armbands at Qatar World Cup
- erenyeager 4y agoAll these organizations showing the real “global” values — greed, fame, profit. At least saying one thing and doing the other seems to be a truly universal thing.
- csdvrx 4y agoHere in the US, we have freedom of expression. Unfortunately, most countries (including European countries) don't.
- benj111 4y agoWhat European countries count as most?
- djbebs 4y agoPretty much all of them.
- acallaghan 4y agoLike Qatar?
- benj111 4y agoI like how you make sweeping generalisations, with out getting specific enough to actually be required to defend yourself. Does the UK have freedom of expression? if not why not, if so what about Germany, or France, or Belgium, or Luxembourg, or the Netherlands, or Sweden, or finland, or Norway, or Denmark? I'll be nice and give you belarus, Hungary, I'll even give you transnistria.
- nautilius 4y agoI’m sure you mean freedom of expression unless the authorities disapprove? https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-voiced-anger-at-police-in-south-carolina-she-got-4-years-in-pr https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-...
- BizyDev 4y agoColin Kaepernick's NFL career has been destroyed just because he kneeled during an anthem. More recently, Kyrie Irving had a lot of problems "just" because he shared a controversial documentary available on Amazon. That's not what I would call "freedom of expression".
- psychphysic 4y ago100% even when BLM took off as mainstream he was persona non grata
- barbazoo 4y agoThe difference being that in the US you don't have to fear prosecution for most things you'd get prosecuted for in, say, Quatar. You might get cancelled on Twitter but you don't end up in jail or get killed at least.
- nells 4y agoExactly. In countries of Europe denying the Holocaust occurred can get you fined or even land you in jail. Americans should appreciate what they have.
- nautilius 4y agoYou do get jailed, though, for talking to the authorities in a way they don't like. https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-voiced-anger-at-police-in-south-carolina-she-got-4-years-in-pr https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-...
- float4 4y agoYour own country disagrees with you. Freedom House researches this exact topic and they're funded by the US Government. Their current chair is a republican but they're non-partisan. Looking at their most recent data[0], we can see the US scored 14/16 in 2022 on "Freedom of Expression and Belief", meaning that 53 countries were better by scoring 15/16 or 16/16. Of the 27 countries that scored 16/16, 11 were European. Qatar scored 6/16 by the way. When you look at the total Freedom Index, the US scores 83/100 which is good for place 62 and lower than most of Europe. Qatar scored 25/100. Here is a world map[1]. [0] https://freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Aggregate_Category_and_Subcategory_Scores_FIW_2003-2022.xlsx https://freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Aggrega... [1] https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2022 https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2022
- lm28469 4y ago
- extasia 4y ago
- vt85 4y ago[dead]
- skerit 4y agoLol @ all those journalists, politicians, ... saying "we have to go to Qatar to let our voices be heard!" Seems to be going well!
- lzooz 4y ago
- kranke155 4y ago
- raspberry1337 4y ago
- Starwatcher2001 4y ago
- djbebs 4y agoDid you miss all the times people with mental illnesses have been discriminated and institutionalized?
- seanw444 4y agoWhy must people be represented on armbands? It wasn't a big thing to wear the Star of David at events during WWII to stand in solidarity. It's quite creepy if you ask me.
- tannedNerd 4y agoWhat other last min rule changes will FIFA bravely make to keep the last few payouts of those bribes going. Between Fox and AmBev they are already going to making significantly less money at 2026 because of concessions over Qatars World cup. https://adage.com/article/media/fifa-admist/309601 https://adage.com/article/media/fifa-admist/309601 Must have been quite a lot to be worth it, and can’t wait to read about the sweetheart deal they give ambev to avoid lawsuits.
- psychphysic 4y agoHonestly whatever it takes to save face I expect. That said, "well break the rules and just pay the fine" attitudes make my blood boil. And I support ramping up the punishment for premeditated rule breaking. That's separate from the fact that this rule is cynical and clearly to appease Qatari sensibilities
- rsj_hn 4y agoI'm not sure which of these is worse: * (Awareness) Europeans who didn't realize that Qatar is a muslim country that doesn't allow LGBT advertising * (Asymmetry) Europeans who knew about Qatar's values, but didn't think Qatar would enforce them with the same vigor as Europeans enforce their values * (Naïveté) Europeans thinking that the reason they could impose their values on these types of international events in the past was something other than money What is happening is that as the West declines in relative economic dominance, other societies become more important on the international stage, and their moral codes must be accommodated. Europeans are finding out that the shoe is now on the other foot in terms of who must accommodate whom, and they are shocked by the discomfort.
- jleyank 4y agoNo, it could also mean that events will fork between cultural systems. Not everybody puts money ahead of ethics. There names for people who do that, though.
- colechristensen 4y agoHas anyone significant said no to the World Cup situation?
- greenhearth 4y agoJust some pop singers I think. What a mess.
- rsj_hn 4y agoCurious, what role do pop singers play in the world cup? Honest question, I've never watched it, so is this for a half-time show?
- greenhearth 4y agoI have never watched either, but my guess is they are there to legitimize this event as a sort of a pan-cultural spectacle worthy of being taken seriously as a corporate distraction.
- fullshark 4y agoGlobalization means culture clash, even if one side looks the other way in the name of profit, it doesn't mean cultural hegemony has actually been achieved in either direction. Just a truce, and resentments fester.
- zosima 4y agoIt's interesting that the good fight for LGBTQ+ is given up as soon as there is a place with actual LGBTQ+ repression and powerful resistance. What then is this signalling for?
- lm28469 4y agoStrong with the weak, weak is the strong Western Europe's motto since ww2
- athrow 4y ago
- skyyler 4y agoI find it mildly concerning that fresh accounts with on here seem to be pushing alt-right conspiracy stuff. My take on Douglas Murray: he didn't understand Foucault, got mad about it, and decided Foucault is an evil Marxist. It kind of rhymes with Jordan Peterson's sentiments about the boogeyman of postmodernism.
- helloharvey 4y agoAs far as accounts go you really don’t have a choice on HN, because eventually you’ll get flagged enough to get throttled/suspended and eventually banned for being too controversial, not following groupthink, etc. Between Theranos and pandemic we’ve got a good corpus of what that looks like, and I don’t have 3-4 years to get my commentary vindicated by the same paid news actors that are causing this shit to begin with. No offense to the mods, but community “guidelines” translates into skewed application. As for Douglas Murray, the reviews for his books aged like fine wine.
- skyyler 4y agoThere's plenty of people here with accounts older than a decade. I think this is a "you" problem.
- _-david-_ 4y agoVirgin Atlantic also dropped their gender neutral flight uniforms going to Qatar.
- bogomipz 4y agoAnd yet the theme of the Opening Ceremony was "tolerance, respect and inclusivity. Actual dialogue: "With tolerance and respect we can live together under one big home" [1] [1] https://youtu.be/fy3jjN0D5iQ?t=99 https://youtu.be/fy3jjN0D5iQ?t=99
- 543ge4q3 4y ago.
- rospaya 4y agoMostly because FIFA threatened with in-game actions (yellow card) and not fines or other penalties. Players would be punished by making the game easier to lose, which would give ther opponents an unfair advantage. Disgusting behvarior by one of the most corrupted orgs around.
- vannevar 4y agoI wonder if every player came out with armbands, would they give them all yellow cards? Would they disqualify entire teams?
- floor2 4y agoMaybe I just need anti-depressants, but how does everyone else just carry on with the absurd hypocrisy in the world? Elon says he's going to tweak Twitter moderation from "ban" to "don't spread, but don't delete" for problematic posts. Reaction: American corporations publicly proclaim they're leaving the platform and cutting their advertisement budgets. Qatar builds stadiums using slave labor, sends rape victims to jail, treats gay people as sub-human. Reaction: Carry on advertising and sponsorships as usual. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation or maybe complying w/ Qatar now somehow eventually makes the world a better place in the future? Or if someone can just tell me Prozac/Adderall/Zoloft/something just makes this feel fine and lets you carry on, that'd work too.
- 1attice 4y agoElon did quite a bit more than that. And I'm afraid there's no pill for being alive during a collapse, but here you are, and the party's just getting going.
- raspberry1337 4y ago>Elon did quite a bit more than that. He also unbanned american conservatives that had been banned for not agreeing with American progressive ideology, and allowed the majority of workers to take a severance packet. The absolute evil of it make Qatar World championship look like a childs play!
- luckylion 4y agoPublic messaging is performative. Very few people actually care, and those who do are not getting airtime, so you wouldn't hear from them. It's like a soap opera. You don't get mad at characters in soaps doing stupid things to create drama, because that drama is the reason they exist. Media largely works the same way, and you should treat it accordingly. Don't get upset, just don't watch soaps if you don't like drama.
- zosima 4y agoI don't know. It seems the plot has been lost and all the good intentions are just sound and fury, signifying nothing. And maybe it's just that: billions of apes, mindlessly imitating each other.
- sharken 4y agoIt would be interesting to see the diplomatic efforts if players from one of the teams would go out drinking in public. I guess we now see the true colors of FIFA, not withstanding the FIFA president who feels like a gay person. Would be interesting to see him actually carry that out in public in Qatar. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/19/fifa-gianni-infantino-world-cup-qatar https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/19/fifa-gianni...
- eurasiantiger 4y agoScrew FIFA and organised sport in general. Hate the suits, love the game.
- thdespou 4y agoThat happens when you host World Cups in a backwards regime. A big cesspool.