4 ms·

NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state a

NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response. I'm not even Irish and certainly have no skin in this game but what the UK did to Ireland over the centuries is disgraceful, and it clearly is struggling to come to terms with it.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
As a recent tourist, NI seemed far less developed than the Republic of Ireland to me, as if everyone there had moved to England for jobs and now that region only survives thanks to life support from London. Much of the infrastructure there reminded me more of post-communist Eastern European countries than western Europe, but then so do many parts of England (no offense). I wonder if NI wouldn't be better off part of the Republic and the EU, now with Brexit and everything?
- mathieuh 4y ago
  As someone who grew up and lives in NI, I'm suspicious that the awful state of the place is because the UK knows NI will rejoin Ireland in the nearish future, so why would they invest in infrastructure here? It used to be the case that the roads would get noticeably worse as you crossed the border into the republic, now the situation is reversed.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    >I'm suspicious that the awful state of the place is because the UK knows NI will rejoin Ireland in the nearish future, so why would they invest in infrastructure here? NI receives a disproportionately large amount of money from the UK gov compared to other UK nations.
    - mathieuh 4y ago
      And that money still isn't enough, because NI is still suffering the effects of the troubles and a governance situation which is not fit for purpose. Everything here is in a state of disrepair, the NHS isn't functioning, the far-right Christian-fundamentalist party which is the second biggest party refuses to do anything for reasons that exist only in their own heads, etc. etc. The place needs to be actively developed, not repeatedly patched up and sent on its way to hobble along.
      - bearmode 4y ago
        I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that the lack of investment in infrastructure isn't a NI-specific issue; rather it's part of central gov policy for the whole of the UK. And has been for decades. Every part of the UK is crumbling through lack of investment. NI is a little better-off than much of England in that regard, outside of Tory towns and villages. My home town never recovered after Thatcher.
- toyg 4y ago
  Probably not, in the sense that it's a backwater anyway - but at least it's currently a backwater enjoying significant subsidies from the UK government, money they likely wouldn't get from Dublin. Unification will happen when the advantage of receiving such money will be clearly be offset by the disadvantage of having a broken political system (NI regional government is boycotted by unionists, while the national government is boycotted by republicans). As money reduces further and further while annoyances get bigger and bigger (because of an entrenched "England-first" government pursuing policies like Brexit), that threshold gets closer and closer.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >enjoying significant subsidies from the UK government Those subsidies don't seem to be enough to save it when the infrastructure is crumbling and everyone is moving abroad for jobs. Also, many countries don't need subsidies, they need opportunities. Subsidies are like paying a crackehead to buy more drugs instead of getting him a home, warm meal, a shower and schooling for job applications. >money they likely wouldn't get from Dublin They would get it from the EU then, and probably a lot more, as the UK gov is now struggling financially to stay solvent. The EU can very generous if you can play the game right. Just look at Poland 20 years ago and Poland today, the difference EU funds and the EU open market made, is night and day. It has also benefiter the Republic of Ireland. I doubt they would have been in the same state today without EU membership. For all its faults, the EU has been a force for good many times. Another English speaking region joining the EU could be a mutual benefit.
disgruntledphd2 4y ago
> NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response. The UK government didn't have a lot of choice, the Ulster Protestants would almost certainly have fought a civil war if the full island was granted domininion status. The boundary commission was problematic, but the real issue post partition was the removal of PR by the NI government. I think that if the ballot box hadn't essentially been stacked against Catholics we might not have seen the Troubles.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > The boundary commission was problematic India, Pakistan, I am seeing a pattern. Even if you get independace from england, you won't leave in one piece.
thrwyoilarticle 4y ago
The same 'know what's best for em' attitude that was used by the US nationals funding IRA terrorism.
iso1631 4y ago
> all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century So which one was that then? Was this before the Representation of the people act or were women and working class men still banned? > It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response. In the 1918 election in Ulster 66% voted for unionist parties.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

As a recent tourist, NI seemed far less developed than the Republic of Ireland to me, as if everyone there had moved to England for jobs and now that region only survives thanks to life support from London. Much of the infrastructure there reminded me more of post-communist Eastern European countries than western Europe, but then so do many parts of England (no offense). I wonder if NI wouldn't be better off part of the Republic and the EU, now with Brexit and everything?

mathieuh 4y ago
As someone who grew up and lives in NI, I'm suspicious that the awful state of the place is because the UK knows NI will rejoin Ireland in the nearish future, so why would they invest in infrastructure here? It used to be the case that the roads would get noticeably worse as you crossed the border into the republic, now the situation is reversed.
- bearmode 4y ago
  >I'm suspicious that the awful state of the place is because the UK knows NI will rejoin Ireland in the nearish future, so why would they invest in infrastructure here? NI receives a disproportionately large amount of money from the UK gov compared to other UK nations.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    And that money still isn't enough, because NI is still suffering the effects of the troubles and a governance situation which is not fit for purpose. Everything here is in a state of disrepair, the NHS isn't functioning, the far-right Christian-fundamentalist party which is the second biggest party refuses to do anything for reasons that exist only in their own heads, etc. etc. The place needs to be actively developed, not repeatedly patched up and sent on its way to hobble along.
    - bearmode 4y ago
      I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that the lack of investment in infrastructure isn't a NI-specific issue; rather it's part of central gov policy for the whole of the UK. And has been for decades. Every part of the UK is crumbling through lack of investment. NI is a little better-off than much of England in that regard, outside of Tory towns and villages. My home town never recovered after Thatcher.
toyg 4y ago
Probably not, in the sense that it's a backwater anyway - but at least it's currently a backwater enjoying significant subsidies from the UK government, money they likely wouldn't get from Dublin. Unification will happen when the advantage of receiving such money will be clearly be offset by the disadvantage of having a broken political system (NI regional government is boycotted by unionists, while the national government is boycotted by republicans). As money reduces further and further while annoyances get bigger and bigger (because of an entrenched "England-first" government pursuing policies like Brexit), that threshold gets closer and closer.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >enjoying significant subsidies from the UK government Those subsidies don't seem to be enough to save it when the infrastructure is crumbling and everyone is moving abroad for jobs. Also, many countries don't need subsidies, they need opportunities. Subsidies are like paying a crackehead to buy more drugs instead of getting him a home, warm meal, a shower and schooling for job applications. >money they likely wouldn't get from Dublin They would get it from the EU then, and probably a lot more, as the UK gov is now struggling financially to stay solvent. The EU can very generous if you can play the game right. Just look at Poland 20 years ago and Poland today, the difference EU funds and the EU open market made, is night and day. It has also benefiter the Republic of Ireland. I doubt they would have been in the same state today without EU membership. For all its faults, the EU has been a force for good many times. Another English speaking region joining the EU could be a mutual benefit.

disgruntledphd2 4y ago

> NI was explicitly created as a hack to an all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century. It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response. The UK government didn't have a lot of choice, the Ulster Protestants would almost certainly have fought a civil war if the full island was granted domininion status. The boundary commission was problematic, but the real issue post partition was the removal of PR by the NI government. I think that if the ballot box hadn't essentially been stacked against Catholics we might not have seen the Troubles.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> The boundary commission was problematic India, Pakistan, I am seeing a pattern. Even if you get independace from england, you won't leave in one piece.

thrwyoilarticle 4y ago

The same 'know what's best for em' attitude that was used by the US nationals funding IRA terrorism.

iso1631 4y ago

> all-Ireland independence referendum at the start of 20th century So which one was that then? Was this before the Representation of the people act or were women and working class men still banned? > It was a landslide victory for a one-Ireland state and the UK created this never-seen-before entity as a response. In the 1918 election in Ulster 66% voted for unionist parties.