5 ms·

The Ulster Plantations were 400 years ago, calling it a colony now is beyond a stretch and sounds childish.

dontlaugh 4y ago
British police and military were killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. The north is still under British occupation. When that ends and the island is re-unified, we can start saying that colonisation is being addressed.
- bearmode 4y ago
  >When that ends and the island is re-unified Why are you trying to force 2 million people to live in a country that most of them explicitly don't want to?
  - robin_reala 4y ago
    Reunification will happen when the majority of them do want to, and that’s probably not that far away given the chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Ireland_opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Irelan...
    - bearmode 4y ago
      And that's absolutely fine, I'll cheer them on in the reunification process when that time comes. But at the moment they don't, and it's silly to suggest that it's still a colony until then.
    - morelisp 4y ago
      Two years, obviously. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_2024 https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_20...
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I'd like the British state to stop forcing NI to be part of the UK. What the people of NI then choose to do is up to them.
    - bearmode 4y ago
      > I'd like the British state to stop forcing NI to be part of the UK. This isn't happening.
    - School-Cotton 4y ago
      The Good Friday Agreement, which the UK is party to, explicitly gives Northern Ireland the right to leave the UK if the majority of people there want to.
- disgruntledphd2 4y ago
  > British police and military were killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. Technically most of the residents of NI were British citizens at the time this was happening. Additionally, it wasn't just the British engaging in violence, there were at least three sides (nationalist/loyalist/government). > The north is still under British occupation I'm pretty sure that I could find a lot of people (almost certainly a majority) of NI residents who'd disagree with this statement. > When that ends and the island is re-unified, I hope (as someone from the Republic) that this happens, but we'll need a bunch of planning and time to make sure this doesn't turn out like Brexit (a close result leading to lots of problems over the following few years).
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    >> killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. > residents of NI were British citizens at the time That's how it works for every independence movement - a smaller entity asserts it's right to exist outside the boundary of a larger one. Fighting smaller entity is self-harm by the larger entity. Look at the Chechen war in Russia, it was the same.
    - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
      Ah no, the Irish situation is very very different. For a start, the Ulster Protestants were the majority in NI until this year (100 years after partition). And while I (as an Irish person) would love to see a united Ireland, I completely condemn the violence that was used to attempt it. Again, I understand why it happened, but 3.5k deaths over 30 years was not an acceptable price to get to the negotiation table (essentially repeating a deal that was shot down by the Unionists in 1972).
- rocketbop 4y ago
  > When that ends and the island is re-unified, we can start saying that colonisation is being addressed. I objected to your use of the word 'colony' as it does not describe Northern Ireland. The social injustices you are referencing, and there have been many, do not make that word any more appropriate. There is already a framework affirmed by the voters of both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland that the a plebiscite on unification can be held. There is no occupation, and your language does nothing constructive. It is also incorrect to say 're-unified' as there never was an all island Irish state.

British police and military were killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. The north is still under British occupation. When that ends and the island is re-unified, we can start saying that colonisation is being addressed.

bearmode 4y ago
>When that ends and the island is re-unified Why are you trying to force 2 million people to live in a country that most of them explicitly don't want to?
- robin_reala 4y ago
  Reunification will happen when the majority of them do want to, and that’s probably not that far away given the chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Ireland_opinion_polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#Northern_Irelan...
  - bearmode 4y ago
    And that's absolutely fine, I'll cheer them on in the reunification process when that time comes. But at the moment they don't, and it's silly to suggest that it's still a colony until then.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Two years, obviously. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_2024 https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_20...
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I'd like the British state to stop forcing NI to be part of the UK. What the people of NI then choose to do is up to them.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    > I'd like the British state to stop forcing NI to be part of the UK. This isn't happening.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    The Good Friday Agreement, which the UK is party to, explicitly gives Northern Ireland the right to leave the UK if the majority of people there want to.
disgruntledphd2 4y ago
> British police and military were killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. Technically most of the residents of NI were British citizens at the time this was happening. Additionally, it wasn't just the British engaging in violence, there were at least three sides (nationalist/loyalist/government). > The north is still under British occupation I'm pretty sure that I could find a lot of people (almost certainly a majority) of NI residents who'd disagree with this statement. > When that ends and the island is re-unified, I hope (as someone from the Republic) that this happens, but we'll need a bunch of planning and time to make sure this doesn't turn out like Brexit (a close result leading to lots of problems over the following few years).
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  >> killing Irish people in the north around 30 years ago. > residents of NI were British citizens at the time That's how it works for every independence movement - a smaller entity asserts it's right to exist outside the boundary of a larger one. Fighting smaller entity is self-harm by the larger entity. Look at the Chechen war in Russia, it was the same.
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    Ah no, the Irish situation is very very different. For a start, the Ulster Protestants were the majority in NI until this year (100 years after partition). And while I (as an Irish person) would love to see a united Ireland, I completely condemn the violence that was used to attempt it. Again, I understand why it happened, but 3.5k deaths over 30 years was not an acceptable price to get to the negotiation table (essentially repeating a deal that was shot down by the Unionists in 1972).
rocketbop 4y ago
> When that ends and the island is re-unified, we can start saying that colonisation is being addressed. I objected to your use of the word 'colony' as it does not describe Northern Ireland. The social injustices you are referencing, and there have been many, do not make that word any more appropriate. There is already a framework affirmed by the voters of both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland that the a plebiscite on unification can be held. There is no occupation, and your language does nothing constructive. It is also incorrect to say 're-unified' as there never was an all island Irish state.