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IRCv3 2022 Spec round-up
- Daunk 4y agoIs there a modern client and server that supports all of these recent additions?
- pandastronaut 4y agoYou will find a supported features matrix here for clients : https://ircv3.net/software/clients https://ircv3.net/software/clients and here for servers : https://ircv3.net/software/servers https://ircv3.net/software/servers
- ilyt 4y agoI firmly believe support feature matrix is what ultimately killed XMPP for masses - it always felt like you don't know what you get with given client or server and never quite worked fine. That and advent of zero-fuss web clients
- mananaysiempre 4y agoThey do have pages listing client[1] and server[2] support. (Behind the “Support” button in the navigation bar, which is perfectly logical, but I needed a couple of seconds to overcome my conditioning and convince myself this may really be the kind of “support” they are talking about.) [1] https://ircv3.net/software/clients https://ircv3.net/software/clients [2] https://ircv3.net/software/servers https://ircv3.net/software/servers
- doublerabbit 4y ago
- Dah00n 4y agoThat wasn't necessary.
- doublerabbit 4y agoWhere's the streaming media?
- jenscow 4y agoNot on IRC. Some would call that a feature.
- Gigachad 4y agoThis goes back to the previous comment. IRC users and other IM users are in different universes now. Stuff that is considered core functionality like push notifications, embedded images and videos is probably never going to work in IRC.
- superkuh 4y agoPeople who use IRC see it as the text communication component of the platform that is the internet. When we need to do media we use the appropriate protocol and simply paste an address in chat (or DCC send it). Building everything into one protocol is just asking for problems (both legal and social).
- u801e 4y ago> Building everything into one protocol is just asking for problems (both legal and social). That's what's been happening with HTTP. Now browsers are bloated and take a lot of system resources to run.
- throwawaylinux 4y agoAll incoming IRC messages are like push notifications aren't they? Or do I have my webology terms confused? IRC clients can certainly pop up a notification or make a sound or blink an icon when they encounter certain messages (e.g., your nick is mentioned), if push notification now means a more intrusive type of alert.
- Avamander 4y agoI don't think any client supports them all, but mIRC and Quassel make the best use of them so far in my opinion.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- donio 4y agoIn Emacs-land rcirc supports a bunch of them: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/net/rcirc.el?h=master#n642 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/net/rc...
- lzooz 4y agoHow's rcirc compared to erc?
- donio 4y agoI think it comes down to personal preferences. rcirc is a single file. ERC is more modular, it has the core in one file and a bunch of modules can be pulled in for extra functionality. I originally went with rcirc because I preferred the way it handles logging: it maintains a separate log buffer and you can format the local logs separate from the display format. ERC logging works by writing out the recent portions the buffer itself. Both are very customizable though, lots of variables and hooks so it should be possible to tweak either one to your taste.
- lzooz 4y agoGreat, cheers
- slingamn 4y agoHere are my biased recommendations ;-) a. Ergo [1] as the server for a greenfield setup b. Gamja [2] and Goguma [3] ) as clients c. Soju [4] as a bouncer for non-Ergo networks [1] https://github.com/ergochat/ergo https://github.com/ergochat/ergo [2] https://sr.ht/~emersion/gamja/ https://sr.ht/~emersion/gamja/ [3] https://sr.ht/~emersion/goguma/ https://sr.ht/~emersion/goguma/ [4] https://sr.ht/~emersion/soju/ https://sr.ht/~emersion/soju/
- qudat 4y agoAlso throwing a great terminal client in the mix: https://git.sr.ht/~taiite/senpai https://git.sr.ht/~taiite/senpai
- theandrewbailey 4y agoI played around with Ergo and Kiwi IRC some months ago. https://github.com/ergochat/ergo https://github.com/ergochat/ergo https://github.com/kiwiirc/kiwiirc https://github.com/kiwiirc/kiwiirc
- bgitarts 4y agoUnfortunately IRC has failed to keep up with the U/X of centralized chat services like discord which is a shame because an open protocol chat seems needed for the internet. Why does open protocol usually mean crippled U/X?
- arka2147483647 4y agoWho pays for the UI to be developed? If open source/community, then chronically starved for resources and contributors have divided directions. If commercial, then they want to differentiate and do embrace, extend, extinguish, in order to drive everybody to their client. I have come to believe, that the protocol spec and servers, is just the easy part of chat apps.
- BonitaPersona 4y agoIn an ideal (and therefore unrealistic) world, it would be done by the UX designer/dev equivalent counterparts of the ones developing these open source softwares. Why do low level engineers work freely on FOSS but designers or UX devs don't is the question.
- Gigachad 4y agoProper UX designers would be ridiculed in the FOSS world because everything is bloat or too corporate. If it doesn't look like Windows XP or a 70s terminal it isn't welcome in FOSS. Gnome is probably the best example of good design in the FOSS space and look how people talk about it. Even in this thread you have people claiming being able to view images and video inline in a chat is an "anti feature". Can you imagine trying to design a product for people so detached from reality?
- palata 4y agoBecause they have different opinions doesn't mean they are detached from reality. IRCCloud shows images in the feed, for instance. I just like the fact that I don't need that overhead in my client if I don't want it.
- jacooper 4y agoToo late. Matrix ate IRC's lunch, its the future of federated chats.
- palata 4y agoNot convinced. One could argue that Discord and Slack ate a bigger part of it. And then Matrix is very very heavy as compared to IRC.
- ninjin 4y agoNot only is it heavy, it is very complex. If I were to make a Matrix client I would for better or worse be forced to rely on someone else having implemented a library for the protocol or most likely spend months on building one myself. IRC is so simple that it does not get in the way and you can roll a bot in less than 100 lines – protocol included. Is IRC crufty at times? Yes. Is it arcane at times? Yes. But I personally will take worse being better in this case. In particular, I find the incredible client diversity to showcase the power of a simple, open protocol. You really can find a client that operates the way you want it to operate and if you for some reason can not, it is not daunting to patch or hack one on your own.
- Klonoar 4y ago>IRC is so simple that it does not get in the way and you can roll a bot in less than 100 lines – protocol included. I've written a Matrix bot for work that's nice and tidy to alert on certain server issues. Sure, you need a lib - but what the hell do I care? If I was writing an IRC bot I'd scope for an IRC lib as well. With Matrix I at least have support for images, code blocks, and so on. Give me Matrix any day.
- ninjin 4y ago> Sure, you need a lib - but what the hell do I care? Well I care, that does not mean that you have to care. Again, look at the lack of client diversity for Matrix and tell me that you do not think that there is at least some correlation in terms of the complexity of the protocol. I sure care that the barriers to entry are significantly higher for Matrix than IRC if you do not have the luxury of having someone else having spent months on a good library for your language of choice (last I checked it meant using either Python or Go). Add to this that the more mandatory features you have and keep adding, the more difficult it will be for clients to keep up. For what it matters, I use Matrix daily. But I am not going to behave as if images, reactions, code blocks, threads, end-to-end encryption, voice calls, video calls, etc. do not come at a cost.
- TheBrokenRail 4y agoThe issue I have with Matrix/IRC/IRCv3 compared to Discord is that they don't really work well with public communities. Discord's server/channel/role system is amazing, and I don't know why everyone else isn't replicating it. For instance, let's take the Pine64 Discord server. It has a grand total of 27 channels split into 10 categories (including top-level). Using Discord's permissions system, some of those channels are read-only like #announcements. Pine64's server is also bridged to Matrix. Matrix requires every single channel to be bridged individually into their own Matrix chat, just look at this table (https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Main_Page#Chat_Platforms https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Main_Page#Chat_Platforms)! In fact, some of the channels aren't even bridged at all! Meanwhile on Discord, everything's all in one easy to use place. You just join the server, and that's it. But what about Matrix spaces? Aren't those the equivalent of Discord servers? The issue is that rather than an integrated experience, Matrix servers are just a built-in version of the table I listed above. You still have to leave/join chats individually and it doesn't even have categories! But that's all from a user's perspective, what about from a server admin's perspective? Discord's permission system is great and flexible, and Matrix's system is just kind of bad. In case you don't know Matrix's system from what i understand is basically: every user gets a permission level number, and users with certain levels can do certain things. That's it, no flexibility whatsoever. Meanwhile on Discord, you can create roles which when given to users allow them to do certain things. Like anyone with a "Moderator" role can delete messages or ban people. But you could also make it so "moderators" can't delete messages, only ban people. And you can also make roles behave different on per-channel or per-category basis. You can even make it so users can't see a channel at all without a role (for instance, a server I'm an admin on has a #mod-chat channel and a #admin-chat channel). Matrix's system just can't do that. And it really doesn't integrate with their Spaces system. There's no way to make it so only certain people can see certain channels in a Matrix Space. In fact, there's no way to manage permissions for an entire Matrix Space at all! It's limited to a per-chat basis. And that long-winded rant is why I will stick with Discord.
- adenozine 4y agoInsomuch as this may be an adequate design, for many cases the fact that it’s not open source is a nonstarter. I’d certainly never touch it for my teams and workgroups at work, because we need to be able to host it and isolate and harden. Discord is also sorta prone to this weird and cringy sort of internet culture which regular people find a little gross, I’d think. I’m old enough to distinctly remember the rise of IRC and I can’t see a reason aside from better security for it to be reinvented rather than just updating the standard. Emojis and attachments and whatnot.
- laacz 4y agoWell, make it a part of the fediverse as a de facto chat/messaging platform? Not big on activitypub and alike, but might that push it a bit further?