6 ms·

> Maybe you’ll dare to approach the new girl at the office with the suede jacket and the messy fringe and ask if you can take her for dinner sometime. Only if

> Maybe you’ll dare to approach the new girl at the office with the suede jacket and the messy fringe and ask if you can take her for dinner sometime. Only if you don’t value your career. Or if you’re very attractive and therefore approaching office mates is low risk.

pmoriarty 4y ago
I've always avoided getting involved with anyone at work, because if the relationship goes sour then working at the same company may become very difficult.
DeWilde 4y ago
Why so? Even companies that have dating rules codified, like Google, have no issue with you asking out someone, at least once. Being rejected and accepting it shouldn't lead to the end of your career. Or am I missing something?
- ezequiel-garzon 4y ago
  Being an SNL bit, this clearly is an exaggeration… but I feel it’s referring to the same principle: https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  Codified dating rules at companies are for people attractive enough that being asked out by them is flattering. Being asked out by unattractive people is creepy harassment in what is supposed to be a safe space, even if they only ask once and politely accept rejection. An unattractive man asking out a woman from work is taking a 10x or 100x career risk compared to a very attractive man asking out a woman from work.
  - Joeri 4y ago
    Do you know someone unattractive who had this happen to them? I’m wondering how prevalent the situation you’re describing is.
    - timeon 4y ago
      I do not know anyone who is not attractive at least in some way.
  - DeWilde 4y ago
    Define attractiveness please, it is a bit of an ambiguous term. My definition of attractiveness includes behavior, and the only unattractive behavior that might put your career at risk is if you ask people out in extremely awkward ways or don't handle rejection well. Otherwise there should be no career risk to stating interest in getting to know a person more that you find interesting.
    - unsupp0rted 4y ago
      Attractive = somebody I’m flattered to be approached by Unattractive = somebody who should know I’m way out of their league and since they don’t it’s creepy and slightly embarrassing to me that they’re trying to get a shot
      - arcturus17 4y ago
        I got past that when I was like 20. If someone asks me out now and I don’t find them attractive I’m not embarrassed in the slightest and I can graciously say no to them.
      - matthewmacleod 4y ago
        This is properly embarrassing incel-tier stuff dude, and it’s not good for you. The more you repeat it, the more you will start to believe it, and the more you will start to act in a way that telegraphs your self-image to others. There’s nothing less attractive than a guy who—regardless of physical appearance—is unaware of the “nice guy” vibes they are projecting. You do you, but I’d wager if you get off of the internet and talk to some human beings without “trying to get a shot” you’ll be way happier.
        unsupp0rted 4y ago
        Another commenter posted the same concept in the form of an SNL skit. https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 The reason that skit is funny and relatable is because it doesn’t take an incel to recognize this nuance of women’s reactions to being approached by two different classes of men.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    10 or 100 times epsilon? Maybe.
  - UntitledNo4 4y ago
    Maybe it's me, but I think that approaching someone you've never spoken to and asking them out is creepy. Regardless of the setting. I would never go to anyone in the gym, or at the shops, or even at a bar and ask them, "hey, do you fancy going out with me?" as the first question. You start chatting to someone, you gauge their reaction, the chemistry between you, and take it from there if you feel that there is interest from the other side as well. It's probably better if you don't even ask them out on your first chat or the first day. I wouldn't think it's a career risk to start chatting to someone at work, unless you continue doing so even after they've shown signs that they are not interested in talking to you, and then they're definitely not interested in dating you either. I'm a gay man, who goes out pretty often, and although we gays are much more direct with each other, I have never gone up to someone and asked "do you want to go out with me?" or had someone ask me that as a first question. That would be weird even for us, who are okay with going to the dark room with someone we've only met three minutes before.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      No one asks this as a first question… That is a strawman. The situation is that you’re thinking there could be interest and are unsure. A lot of women are extremely reserved and as a straight man - anything short of a blatant no is not enough to stop because women don’t like to reveal their position often. A common story is a woman to completely ignore or harass a man and then later ask her friends, “do you think he likes me? God, he’s so attractive.” Many women will do anything they can to avoid showing how they feel about someone because they’re incredibly afraid of rejection. (Mainly cause most women never actually have to overcome rejection - men do it for them) Dating women is much different than men. It’s very different. All the gay men in my life are endlessly perplexed by the stories they hear from their straight male friends.
- bragh 4y ago
  It is quite simple: if someone does not have any sucess in OLD or outside work, then how come they are thinking that they will have something different going for them in the workplace?
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Many people don't care to engage in explicitly relationship-seeking activities, which includes going to clubs and bars, mixers for singles, online dating and such. Some see it as an obvious signal of desperation/undesirableness. If I have to resort to this, it implies no one among my peers whom I already see every day because I study or work or live next to them or hang out with their friends etc. is willing to have a relationship with me. (Or they were but then dumped me. Or my standards are idealistic and any real person I know sufficiently well will fall short, guaranteeing a short or dysfunctional relationship for you. Or I am in a relationship and am dishonest to my partner. Most explanations would not be in my favor, except maybe if I lead a solitary life without much social contact and that also begs the question why (unemployed? nomadic? etc.))
  - DeWilde 4y ago
    Maybe the set of behaviors the exude at work are attractive to other people they share the workplace with? Especially seeing they already have a big thing in common-place they spend a lot of time at.
    - bragh 4y ago
      This completely ignores the physical attractiveness side of things...
      - DeWilde 4y ago
        Yes, as it isn't a big factor in determining the behavior if the approach. You probably see, from time to time, couples really unequal in term of physical attraction so it isn't impossible to be with someone who is more physically attractive than you.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Asking once and being rejected is probably the best outcome. The problems start when the relationship ends, if it ends badly. Maybe you can take that chance if you know the coworker isn't into gossip/drama/etc and is mature about stuff. But for the love God, why would anyone suggest asking out your new coworker who you don't even know a little bit. Risk piled on more risk...
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    This was 20 years ago, but I can 100% not recommend dating the only person in HR and then someone else from the same ~50-person company immediately after.
speedgoose 4y ago
I live in Europe and I don’t know anyone who suffered professionally from approaching coworkers, and it’s very common.
- stevekemp 4y ago
  Agreed. I've seen statistics along the lines of 75% of relationships, in the UK, starting due to meeting at work. I've certainly dated several colleagues, over the years.
  - tstrimple 4y ago
    22% of married couples in the US met at work. It seems like so many of these complaints come from people who swear they are Nice Guys. I've literally never seen an issue of someone asking another person out once. I have seen multiple times guys who don't accept no for an answer and continue harassing women about dating them or grossly unacceptable behavior at social events. Usually that inappropriate behavior and the casual harassment is ignored by the company. The last clear example in my mind was at a major tech company based in the US which everyone would recognize. We had a direct college hire who was followed around at an offsite by a middle aged man who repeatedly pressured her into going back to his hotel room. He followed her around all night, despite her telling him multiple times she wasn't interested. It got to the point where everyone in the group realized what was going on and made sure to not leave her alone while trying to convince the guy to go to bed. This issue was rightfully reported, and nothing at all came of it. You can ask people out and still respect their boundaries.
- _8j50 4y ago
  The social dynamics of dating in the US are very different. I think in general some men are seen as more violent/depraved/creepy. In the same way, if a man is with a child in public for example, unless they look very similar people will assume kidnapping/abuse type of a situation. Age and attrativeness plays a huge role.
Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
The Guardian/Observer is a UK newspaper. I wouldn’t expect it to solely reflect US cultural norms.
tennisflyi 4y ago
Dinner is a bit too on the nose. Maybe just if you can hangout in general. Gauge that reaction/outing, then if it goes well try for dinner.
_8j50 4y ago
This is so true! You have to be 110% sure the other person is actually attracted to you. This is absolutley not women's fault or problem but if you are unattractive even hinting slightly that you like a person will be interpreted as being creepy. Outside of work you can accept the rejection right away and move on, at work, rumors will ruin you. I don't know about others but no romantic opportunity is worth sacrificing a career. For me it isn't even just all that but making someone uncomfortable at their work place where they have to work with you everyday sounds like a horrible thing to do. What if they view you as an authority figure or feel like their rejection could affect their career/work? This is even before HR and managers get involved and you get a nice public humiliation. I mean, don't eat where you shit, right? There is plenty of other places better suited than work.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  > This is so true! You have to be 110% sure the other person is actually attracted to you. Or just be a woman. Causal sexual harassment and even sexual assault in the workplace is almost always just ignored or glossed over if it’s perpetrated by a woman. If a man reports to HR that his female boss grabbed his ass they’ll look at him like he’s mentally ill, or ask him if he’s bothered by it because he’s homosexual.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    I think that attitude has changed a lot these days but you are right about women not being treated the same. But most sexual abusers are men and historically men dominated workplace sexual harrasments, people are biased by that I guess.
yieldcrv 4y ago
when a company I was with was subletting office space from a larger company on the same floor in an open office, I learned a lifehack: none of this matters when the person works for another company

pmoriarty 4y ago

I've always avoided getting involved with anyone at work, because if the relationship goes sour then working at the same company may become very difficult.

DeWilde 4y ago

Why so? Even companies that have dating rules codified, like Google, have no issue with you asking out someone, at least once. Being rejected and accepting it shouldn't lead to the end of your career. Or am I missing something?

ezequiel-garzon 4y ago
Being an SNL bit, this clearly is an exaggeration… but I feel it’s referring to the same principle: https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8
unsupp0rted 4y ago
Codified dating rules at companies are for people attractive enough that being asked out by them is flattering. Being asked out by unattractive people is creepy harassment in what is supposed to be a safe space, even if they only ask once and politely accept rejection. An unattractive man asking out a woman from work is taking a 10x or 100x career risk compared to a very attractive man asking out a woman from work.
- Joeri 4y ago
  Do you know someone unattractive who had this happen to them? I’m wondering how prevalent the situation you’re describing is.
  - timeon 4y ago
    I do not know anyone who is not attractive at least in some way.
- DeWilde 4y ago
  Define attractiveness please, it is a bit of an ambiguous term. My definition of attractiveness includes behavior, and the only unattractive behavior that might put your career at risk is if you ask people out in extremely awkward ways or don't handle rejection well. Otherwise there should be no career risk to stating interest in getting to know a person more that you find interesting.
  - unsupp0rted 4y ago
    Attractive = somebody I’m flattered to be approached by Unattractive = somebody who should know I’m way out of their league and since they don’t it’s creepy and slightly embarrassing to me that they’re trying to get a shot
    - arcturus17 4y ago
      I got past that when I was like 20. If someone asks me out now and I don’t find them attractive I’m not embarrassed in the slightest and I can graciously say no to them.
    - matthewmacleod 4y ago
      This is properly embarrassing incel-tier stuff dude, and it’s not good for you. The more you repeat it, the more you will start to believe it, and the more you will start to act in a way that telegraphs your self-image to others. There’s nothing less attractive than a guy who—regardless of physical appearance—is unaware of the “nice guy” vibes they are projecting. You do you, but I’d wager if you get off of the internet and talk to some human beings without “trying to get a shot” you’ll be way happier.
      - unsupp0rted 4y ago
        Another commenter posted the same concept in the form of an SNL skit. https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8 The reason that skit is funny and relatable is because it doesn’t take an incel to recognize this nuance of women’s reactions to being approached by two different classes of men.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  10 or 100 times epsilon? Maybe.
- UntitledNo4 4y ago
  Maybe it's me, but I think that approaching someone you've never spoken to and asking them out is creepy. Regardless of the setting. I would never go to anyone in the gym, or at the shops, or even at a bar and ask them, "hey, do you fancy going out with me?" as the first question. You start chatting to someone, you gauge their reaction, the chemistry between you, and take it from there if you feel that there is interest from the other side as well. It's probably better if you don't even ask them out on your first chat or the first day. I wouldn't think it's a career risk to start chatting to someone at work, unless you continue doing so even after they've shown signs that they are not interested in talking to you, and then they're definitely not interested in dating you either. I'm a gay man, who goes out pretty often, and although we gays are much more direct with each other, I have never gone up to someone and asked "do you want to go out with me?" or had someone ask me that as a first question. That would be weird even for us, who are okay with going to the dark room with someone we've only met three minutes before.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    No one asks this as a first question… That is a strawman. The situation is that you’re thinking there could be interest and are unsure. A lot of women are extremely reserved and as a straight man - anything short of a blatant no is not enough to stop because women don’t like to reveal their position often. A common story is a woman to completely ignore or harass a man and then later ask her friends, “do you think he likes me? God, he’s so attractive.” Many women will do anything they can to avoid showing how they feel about someone because they’re incredibly afraid of rejection. (Mainly cause most women never actually have to overcome rejection - men do it for them) Dating women is much different than men. It’s very different. All the gay men in my life are endlessly perplexed by the stories they hear from their straight male friends.
bragh 4y ago
It is quite simple: if someone does not have any sucess in OLD or outside work, then how come they are thinking that they will have something different going for them in the workplace?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Many people don't care to engage in explicitly relationship-seeking activities, which includes going to clubs and bars, mixers for singles, online dating and such. Some see it as an obvious signal of desperation/undesirableness. If I have to resort to this, it implies no one among my peers whom I already see every day because I study or work or live next to them or hang out with their friends etc. is willing to have a relationship with me. (Or they were but then dumped me. Or my standards are idealistic and any real person I know sufficiently well will fall short, guaranteeing a short or dysfunctional relationship for you. Or I am in a relationship and am dishonest to my partner. Most explanations would not be in my favor, except maybe if I lead a solitary life without much social contact and that also begs the question why (unemployed? nomadic? etc.))
- DeWilde 4y ago
  Maybe the set of behaviors the exude at work are attractive to other people they share the workplace with? Especially seeing they already have a big thing in common-place they spend a lot of time at.
  - bragh 4y ago
    This completely ignores the physical attractiveness side of things...
    - DeWilde 4y ago
      Yes, as it isn't a big factor in determining the behavior if the approach. You probably see, from time to time, couples really unequal in term of physical attraction so it isn't impossible to be with someone who is more physically attractive than you.
giantg2 4y ago
Asking once and being rejected is probably the best outcome. The problems start when the relationship ends, if it ends badly. Maybe you can take that chance if you know the coworker isn't into gossip/drama/etc and is mature about stuff. But for the love God, why would anyone suggest asking out your new coworker who you don't even know a little bit. Risk piled on more risk...
- sokoloff 4y ago
  This was 20 years ago, but I can 100% not recommend dating the only person in HR and then someone else from the same ~50-person company immediately after.

speedgoose 4y ago

I live in Europe and I don’t know anyone who suffered professionally from approaching coworkers, and it’s very common.

stevekemp 4y ago
Agreed. I've seen statistics along the lines of 75% of relationships, in the UK, starting due to meeting at work. I've certainly dated several colleagues, over the years.
- tstrimple 4y ago
  22% of married couples in the US met at work. It seems like so many of these complaints come from people who swear they are Nice Guys. I've literally never seen an issue of someone asking another person out once. I have seen multiple times guys who don't accept no for an answer and continue harassing women about dating them or grossly unacceptable behavior at social events. Usually that inappropriate behavior and the casual harassment is ignored by the company. The last clear example in my mind was at a major tech company based in the US which everyone would recognize. We had a direct college hire who was followed around at an offsite by a middle aged man who repeatedly pressured her into going back to his hotel room. He followed her around all night, despite her telling him multiple times she wasn't interested. It got to the point where everyone in the group realized what was going on and made sure to not leave her alone while trying to convince the guy to go to bed. This issue was rightfully reported, and nothing at all came of it. You can ask people out and still respect their boundaries.
_8j50 4y ago
The social dynamics of dating in the US are very different. I think in general some men are seen as more violent/depraved/creepy. In the same way, if a man is with a child in public for example, unless they look very similar people will assume kidnapping/abuse type of a situation. Age and attrativeness plays a huge role.

Doctor_Fegg 4y ago

The Guardian/Observer is a UK newspaper. I wouldn’t expect it to solely reflect US cultural norms.

tennisflyi 4y ago

Dinner is a bit too on the nose. Maybe just if you can hangout in general. Gauge that reaction/outing, then if it goes well try for dinner.

_8j50 4y ago

This is so true! You have to be 110% sure the other person is actually attracted to you. This is absolutley not women's fault or problem but if you are unattractive even hinting slightly that you like a person will be interpreted as being creepy. Outside of work you can accept the rejection right away and move on, at work, rumors will ruin you. I don't know about others but no romantic opportunity is worth sacrificing a career. For me it isn't even just all that but making someone uncomfortable at their work place where they have to work with you everyday sounds like a horrible thing to do. What if they view you as an authority figure or feel like their rejection could affect their career/work? This is even before HR and managers get involved and you get a nice public humiliation. I mean, don't eat where you shit, right? There is plenty of other places better suited than work.

isitmadeofglass 4y ago
> This is so true! You have to be 110% sure the other person is actually attracted to you. Or just be a woman. Causal sexual harassment and even sexual assault in the workplace is almost always just ignored or glossed over if it’s perpetrated by a woman. If a man reports to HR that his female boss grabbed his ass they’ll look at him like he’s mentally ill, or ask him if he’s bothered by it because he’s homosexual.
- _8j50 4y ago
  I think that attitude has changed a lot these days but you are right about women not being treated the same. But most sexual abusers are men and historically men dominated workplace sexual harrasments, people are biased by that I guess.

yieldcrv 4y ago

when a company I was with was subletting office space from a larger company on the same floor in an open office, I learned a lifehack: none of this matters when the person works for another company