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People should do more thinking with their taste buds and less with what they hear. If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it. Otherwise

People should do more thinking with their taste buds and less with what they hear. If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it. Otherwise leave it be. This morning I had an expensive artisan craft coffee. I've never been able to taste the difference, so I'm not going to act like it was something extraordinary. Atmosphere was nice though.

xiphias2 4y ago
I love coffee, and most of the time I go to specialty coffee shops just because they know the basics of making coffee: not heat up the milk more than necessary, and the coffee beans shouldn't be burned too much (which is necessary for the worst part of the coffee beans). Sadly most of the coffee shops don't even try to achieve these two things.
williamdclt 4y ago
> If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it The article does say that, but makes the (valid) point that it's not okay to sell it pretending that it's "the real stuff" with a corresponding price tag. What I'm curious about is that the author seems to suggest these artificial flavouring are unhealthy ("causing long-term damage to [...] your stomach and palate") but doesn't say why.
- permo-w 4y ago
  the author also says that the chemical is actually found in truffles
  - newsclues 4y ago
    If you ask for a glass of water and a waiter gives you a glass of urine, do you smile and drink it because urine also has H2O in it and therefore has the same chemical found in water?
    - Biganon 4y ago
      That's literally the OPPOSITE of what's happening with truffles, though.
    - hgsgm 4y ago
    - permo-w 4y ago
      how is this relevant?
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    This is literally how all "natural flavor" works. They analyze the real thing for what makes it smell or taste like it does. Then they take one or a few major molecules that make up the taste and that are easy to derive cheaply from something else and use it for flavoring stuff. The real thing probably had a hundred different things make up its smell and taste. Bonus points if it can be derived from something that allows them to label it as "natural". Lots of natural flavor is produced by molds/funghi actually that have been modified to produce the molecules needed. Example: https://cen.acs.org/food/food-science/Edible-fungus-yields-new-pineapple/98/web/2020/02 https://cen.acs.org/food/food-science/Edible-fungus-yields-n... Case in point I just recently read here on HN I believe that banana flavored stuff still tastes like the old bananas that we can no longer buy because that variety is no longer possible to grow. The molecules they extracted from that aren't in the bananas variety we can currently buy. Anecdote: we did this in our high school chemistry class w/ pineapple flavour, i.e. we created artificial pineapple flavouring right there in class. It was very strong and not as complex as a real pineapple, but identifiable.
    - riffraff 4y ago
      > like the old bananas that we can no longer buy because that variety is no longer possible to grow. that would be the Gros Michel. It is a common misconception that it no longer exists, but you can you actually still buy it (and grow it), you will find many results in google. It's just been replaced in the mass market.
      - tharkun__ 4y ago
        Thanks! In case anyone else is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana#Early_popularity_and_decline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana#Early_popul... So I should have written: that you can no longer buy in the supermarket down the street :)
        permo-w 4y ago
        TLDR: it was made economically unsustainable to grow because of something called Panama Disease, which Gros Michel is susceptible to, where modern bananas are not
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    The chemical used for artificial vanilla is found in real vanilla, but the artificial and real vanilla are rather different from each other. I can roll with either, but if I'm paying real vanilla prices for vanillin, I've been ripped off.
arlcode 4y ago
It think the difference lies in valuing the process or the result. Personally I think like you, if the product tastes good and the atmosphere is fine for the advertised price I'm 100% satisfied. If the restaurant manages to achieve that with cheaper ingredients (while maintaining hygiene and not outright lying) I consider that a good business practice.
- II2II 4y ago
  > and not outright lying But what is constitutes outright lying? Some would assume that the word "truffles" on its own means the genuine article. Others would say they are telling the truth if they state that it is not the real thing in the small print. It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried to trademark Real Truffles for their substitute. All would claim that they are telling the truth, never mind deny they are not outright lying. Technically, they are correct. Deception is not a good business practice, even in the slightest. It is the sign of someone who is solely interested in short term gain, rather than establishing a lasting institution.
coldtea 4y ago
>People should do more thinking with their taste buds and less with what they hear. First people should not be lied to by restaurants and the food industry, and prices should not be jacked up selling crap as premium... Then they can decide freely if they like gasoline-derived oil for what it is itself...
- karmakurtisaani 4y ago
  But this is something that's really difficult to regulate. A good example is that wine brewed from natural yeasts that smells like horseshit. It was branded as "barnyard".
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    > But this is something that's really difficult to regulate. A good example is that wine brewed from natural yeasts that smells like horseshit. It was branded as "barnyard". How does that make things hard to regulate?
    - karmakurtisaani 4y ago
      "Selling crap as premium" is hard to regulate. Yes, you can put laws in place to say what is allowed to be called truffles etc., but it will be hard to stop people from selling what is technically a truffle as a premium truffle. I.e., selling crap as premium.
      - threatofrain 4y ago
        The issue here isn't whether a wine company can creatively brand smelly wine as "barnyard". Before we even deal with the question of how do we grade products, we first have to ask whether companies should be able to simply lie to customers about whether listed ingredients are even present.
        karmakurtisaani 4y ago
strken 4y ago
Yeah. I deliberately buy imitation truffle oil made from mixing whatever-pentane into cheap refined olive oil with full knowledge that it's fake. I also buy fake saffron, fake maple syrup, and fake vanilla essence. With all these foods the real thing is better, but the substitute is also fine.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  Sadly, I've met people that actually enjoy fake maple syrup more than the real stuff. To the point of actually disliking real maple syrup because "it doesn't taste like the thing" that they'd been eating since childhood.
  - strken 4y ago
    That's not sad, that's great! They're paying less than you for an equivalent level of enjoyment, so good for them.
    - yonaguska 4y ago
      Great point. It still makes me sad because I've unscientifically concluded that maple flavored corn syrup is unequivocally much worse for your health, on the basis that I want to justify still eating maple syrup and choose to believe that it's actually not the worst thing I could be eating, so it's ok to have it. This same unfounded belief has helped me curb my sweet tooth, as I no longer order pancakes or french toast, anytime I eat out, working at a fancier restaurant showed me that they all mostly use the exact same several gallon jugs of maple flavored syrup.
      - hgsgm 4y ago
  - blowski 4y ago
    How very post-modern. Jean Baudrillard would have been delighted.
  - 4y ago
StingyJelly 4y ago
Exactly. I like artificial truffle flavor and use it sometimes in my cooking. No way would I pay for truffles. There's no gas-like aroma and I don't know what the author is going on about in that regard. I've had a meal with real truffle once and I must say that the artificial flavor does a pretty good job. Restaurants being dishonest are maybe problem for honest ones next-door, but if the customer is happy I see no harm done.
- Kbelicius 4y ago
  You don't see any harm done by lying to customers?
  - jacob019 4y ago
    Truffle fries don't contain truffles. French fries don't come from france. I don't think the restaurant is to blame for our language. You want every restaurant to start calling them immitation truffle fries?
    - Kbelicius 4y ago
      Sure, why not.
    - Jiro 4y ago
      >French fries don't come from france. According to Wikipedia, it's at least believed by some researchers that French fries originated in France. Unless you mean "these specific fries don't come from France, any more than these specific fries contain truffles".
    - 8note 4y ago
      "Truffle flavoured fries" Would be accurate and descriptive and makes them distinct from fries with actual truffle. Gives you the same differentiation as whipped cream vs edible oil
SantalBlush 4y ago
That's not the point. The point is that calling it truffle oil is intentionally deceptive. Call the fake truffle oil something else, then see how many people still want to buy it.
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
Yeah, this is how I feel. Truffle oil is kinda like that artificial grape flavor. It's clearly not the real thing if you've tasted both. But if you're honest, that fake grape in a Fanta or whatever is tasty in its own way. Similarly there's a burger joint near me that does truffle oil fries with the synthetic flavor. They aren't priced like it's some luxury thing either, they're just the standard fries at the price you'd expect. They're tasty. I don't see the point of being all huffy about it.
- wellthisisgreat 4y ago
  Yeah artificial banana is actually pretty good. I do like bananas and the synthetic stuff is nothing like the real thing. I do like to think that sim-flavors will eventually get their own seat at the taste at the table but there is still correlation between interest in the prototype taste and the sims. However I do like organic raspberry for example, synth raspberry is meh.
Ptchd 4y ago
That doesn't work, it's called fraud and can be dangerous in some cases... For example, restaurants do that a lot with fish too and sometimes they serve you an alternative that is much more likely to contain heavy metals. Even in grocery stores you can't be sure what kind of fish you buy. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/restaurants-grocery-stores-plagued-with-fish-fraud-report-says/537728/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/restaurants-grocery-stores-...
yunwal 4y ago
It’s nice to be able to attribute noticeable differences to a reason so you can learn. Maybe you don’t notice much difference with coffee (I’m with you there as long as it’s well extracted), but if you’ve been to a nice restaurant and notice the Caesar salad tastes better than at Olive Garden despite having the same ingredients listed on the menu, it’s helpful to understand that the kitchen sources the ingredients daily from a local farm.
TomSwirly 4y ago
> People should do more thinking with their taste buds This is meaningless. If I buy a product that claims to contain X ingredient, the manufacturer has a moral, ethical, and legal responsibility to give me that ingredient.
choward 4y ago
The amount of people who are okay with being lied to by corporations is very concerning.

xiphias2 4y ago

I love coffee, and most of the time I go to specialty coffee shops just because they know the basics of making coffee: not heat up the milk more than necessary, and the coffee beans shouldn't be burned too much (which is necessary for the worst part of the coffee beans). Sadly most of the coffee shops don't even try to achieve these two things.

williamdclt 4y ago

> If they enjoy this truffle oil made from gasoline, why not eat it The article does say that, but makes the (valid) point that it's not okay to sell it pretending that it's "the real stuff" with a corresponding price tag. What I'm curious about is that the author seems to suggest these artificial flavouring are unhealthy ("causing long-term damage to [...] your stomach and palate") but doesn't say why.

permo-w 4y ago
the author also says that the chemical is actually found in truffles
- newsclues 4y ago
  If you ask for a glass of water and a waiter gives you a glass of urine, do you smile and drink it because urine also has H2O in it and therefore has the same chemical found in water?
  - Biganon 4y ago
    That's literally the OPPOSITE of what's happening with truffles, though.
  - hgsgm 4y ago
  - permo-w 4y ago
    how is this relevant?
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  This is literally how all "natural flavor" works. They analyze the real thing for what makes it smell or taste like it does. Then they take one or a few major molecules that make up the taste and that are easy to derive cheaply from something else and use it for flavoring stuff. The real thing probably had a hundred different things make up its smell and taste. Bonus points if it can be derived from something that allows them to label it as "natural". Lots of natural flavor is produced by molds/funghi actually that have been modified to produce the molecules needed. Example: https://cen.acs.org/food/food-science/Edible-fungus-yields-new-pineapple/98/web/2020/02 https://cen.acs.org/food/food-science/Edible-fungus-yields-n... Case in point I just recently read here on HN I believe that banana flavored stuff still tastes like the old bananas that we can no longer buy because that variety is no longer possible to grow. The molecules they extracted from that aren't in the bananas variety we can currently buy. Anecdote: we did this in our high school chemistry class w/ pineapple flavour, i.e. we created artificial pineapple flavouring right there in class. It was very strong and not as complex as a real pineapple, but identifiable.
  - riffraff 4y ago
    > like the old bananas that we can no longer buy because that variety is no longer possible to grow. that would be the Gros Michel. It is a common misconception that it no longer exists, but you can you actually still buy it (and grow it), you will find many results in google. It's just been replaced in the mass market.
    - tharkun__ 4y ago
      Thanks! In case anyone else is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana#Early_popularity_and_decline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel_banana#Early_popul... So I should have written: that you can no longer buy in the supermarket down the street :)
      - permo-w 4y ago
        TLDR: it was made economically unsustainable to grow because of something called Panama Disease, which Gros Michel is susceptible to, where modern bananas are not
- JohnFen 4y ago
  The chemical used for artificial vanilla is found in real vanilla, but the artificial and real vanilla are rather different from each other. I can roll with either, but if I'm paying real vanilla prices for vanillin, I've been ripped off.

arlcode 4y ago

It think the difference lies in valuing the process or the result. Personally I think like you, if the product tastes good and the atmosphere is fine for the advertised price I'm 100% satisfied. If the restaurant manages to achieve that with cheaper ingredients (while maintaining hygiene and not outright lying) I consider that a good business practice.

II2II 4y ago
> and not outright lying But what is constitutes outright lying? Some would assume that the word "truffles" on its own means the genuine article. Others would say they are telling the truth if they state that it is not the real thing in the small print. It wouldn't surprise me if someone tried to trademark Real Truffles for their substitute. All would claim that they are telling the truth, never mind deny they are not outright lying. Technically, they are correct. Deception is not a good business practice, even in the slightest. It is the sign of someone who is solely interested in short term gain, rather than establishing a lasting institution.

coldtea 4y ago

>People should do more thinking with their taste buds and less with what they hear. First people should not be lied to by restaurants and the food industry, and prices should not be jacked up selling crap as premium... Then they can decide freely if they like gasoline-derived oil for what it is itself...

karmakurtisaani 4y ago
But this is something that's really difficult to regulate. A good example is that wine brewed from natural yeasts that smells like horseshit. It was branded as "barnyard".
- threatofrain 4y ago
  > But this is something that's really difficult to regulate. A good example is that wine brewed from natural yeasts that smells like horseshit. It was branded as "barnyard". How does that make things hard to regulate?
  - karmakurtisaani 4y ago
    "Selling crap as premium" is hard to regulate. Yes, you can put laws in place to say what is allowed to be called truffles etc., but it will be hard to stop people from selling what is technically a truffle as a premium truffle. I.e., selling crap as premium.
    - threatofrain 4y ago
      The issue here isn't whether a wine company can creatively brand smelly wine as "barnyard". Before we even deal with the question of how do we grade products, we first have to ask whether companies should be able to simply lie to customers about whether listed ingredients are even present.
      - karmakurtisaani 4y ago

strken 4y ago

Yeah. I deliberately buy imitation truffle oil made from mixing whatever-pentane into cheap refined olive oil with full knowledge that it's fake. I also buy fake saffron, fake maple syrup, and fake vanilla essence. With all these foods the real thing is better, but the substitute is also fine.

yonaguska 4y ago
Sadly, I've met people that actually enjoy fake maple syrup more than the real stuff. To the point of actually disliking real maple syrup because "it doesn't taste like the thing" that they'd been eating since childhood.
- strken 4y ago
  That's not sad, that's great! They're paying less than you for an equivalent level of enjoyment, so good for them.
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    Great point. It still makes me sad because I've unscientifically concluded that maple flavored corn syrup is unequivocally much worse for your health, on the basis that I want to justify still eating maple syrup and choose to believe that it's actually not the worst thing I could be eating, so it's ok to have it. This same unfounded belief has helped me curb my sweet tooth, as I no longer order pancakes or french toast, anytime I eat out, working at a fancier restaurant showed me that they all mostly use the exact same several gallon jugs of maple flavored syrup.
    - hgsgm 4y ago
- blowski 4y ago
  How very post-modern. Jean Baudrillard would have been delighted.
- 4y ago

StingyJelly 4y ago

Exactly. I like artificial truffle flavor and use it sometimes in my cooking. No way would I pay for truffles. There's no gas-like aroma and I don't know what the author is going on about in that regard. I've had a meal with real truffle once and I must say that the artificial flavor does a pretty good job. Restaurants being dishonest are maybe problem for honest ones next-door, but if the customer is happy I see no harm done.

Kbelicius 4y ago
You don't see any harm done by lying to customers?
- jacob019 4y ago
  Truffle fries don't contain truffles. French fries don't come from france. I don't think the restaurant is to blame for our language. You want every restaurant to start calling them immitation truffle fries?
  - Kbelicius 4y ago
    Sure, why not.
  - Jiro 4y ago
    >French fries don't come from france. According to Wikipedia, it's at least believed by some researchers that French fries originated in France. Unless you mean "these specific fries don't come from France, any more than these specific fries contain truffles".
  - 8note 4y ago
    "Truffle flavoured fries" Would be accurate and descriptive and makes them distinct from fries with actual truffle. Gives you the same differentiation as whipped cream vs edible oil

SantalBlush 4y ago

That's not the point. The point is that calling it truffle oil is intentionally deceptive. Call the fake truffle oil something else, then see how many people still want to buy it.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

Yeah, this is how I feel. Truffle oil is kinda like that artificial grape flavor. It's clearly not the real thing if you've tasted both. But if you're honest, that fake grape in a Fanta or whatever is tasty in its own way. Similarly there's a burger joint near me that does truffle oil fries with the synthetic flavor. They aren't priced like it's some luxury thing either, they're just the standard fries at the price you'd expect. They're tasty. I don't see the point of being all huffy about it.

wellthisisgreat 4y ago
Yeah artificial banana is actually pretty good. I do like bananas and the synthetic stuff is nothing like the real thing. I do like to think that sim-flavors will eventually get their own seat at the taste at the table but there is still correlation between interest in the prototype taste and the sims. However I do like organic raspberry for example, synth raspberry is meh.

Ptchd 4y ago

That doesn't work, it's called fraud and can be dangerous in some cases... For example, restaurants do that a lot with fish too and sometimes they serve you an alternative that is much more likely to contain heavy metals. Even in grocery stores you can't be sure what kind of fish you buy. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/restaurants-grocery-stores-plagued-with-fish-fraud-report-says/537728/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/restaurants-grocery-stores-...

yunwal 4y ago

It’s nice to be able to attribute noticeable differences to a reason so you can learn. Maybe you don’t notice much difference with coffee (I’m with you there as long as it’s well extracted), but if you’ve been to a nice restaurant and notice the Caesar salad tastes better than at Olive Garden despite having the same ingredients listed on the menu, it’s helpful to understand that the kitchen sources the ingredients daily from a local farm.

TomSwirly 4y ago

> People should do more thinking with their taste buds This is meaningless. If I buy a product that claims to contain X ingredient, the manufacturer has a moral, ethical, and legal responsibility to give me that ingredient.

choward 4y ago

The amount of people who are okay with being lied to by corporations is very concerning.