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>As people enter middle age, they tend to have more demands on their time, many of them more pressing than friendship. After all, it’s easier to put off catchin

• flashgordon 4y ago
  This is so spot on. I feel like I am such a shitty friend especially after having witnessed my friends go above and beyond for when we needed their help without even being asked for it.
  • AussieWog93 4y ago
    My wife's family has a real knack for working out what each other need, basically asking each other how they're going and really keeping a finger on the pulse when listening to the responses. It's an art form for sure, but working out who needs assistance and in what form makes it really easy to provide it.
  • szundi 4y ago
    No worries, you can always find time and opportunities
    • flashgordon 4y ago
      Oh totally. Coming across these friends in my life made me realize I had to really work on my empathy and selflessness!
• 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
  >The sad part is that it doesn't have to be this way. The notion that friendship is something you make time for (to the detriment of your other pursuits) seems to be very modern, very Western and an absolutely terrible idea. Why wouldn't it though? Ultimately speaking time is a finite resource for an individual. If one's pursuits or responsibilities do not align with the pursuits of your friend, then why wouldn't one need pick between expending one's time with said friend vs other callings?
  • szundi 4y ago
    I think the parent commenter actually answered your question why wouldn’t.
  • AussieWog93 4y ago
    I guess it makes more sense when you consider reciprocity. Pouring your finite and valuable time into assisting a friend achieve their goals implies that they will, at least to some extent, help you with yours. It doesn't matter if they're aligned as long as you understand one another. Whereas with the "let's catch up" friends, the implicit agreement is that by making you sacrifice for the relationship, you get the right to make them sacrifice. I guess the latter is better than nothing, as it beats being alone, but an optimising brain leads one towards putting in minimum effort and letting the relationship decay to the point of just being alive.
    • technothrasher 4y ago
      I'm not sure I see the time spent with "let's catch up" friends as a sacrifice. I find it as a time to break out of my routine, get a fresh perspective on the things I'm doing, and offer the same to the friend I'm meeting. It's like a mini-vacation to go to dinner with someone I don't usually see. The "always there to help" friends are valuable to me as well, but they're a larger part of my every day life, more like extended family, and so usually can't get me that "get out of my life and look back in" sort of interaction I can have with friends I have to break routine to go see.
    • AmericanChopper 4y ago
• CalRobert 4y ago
  We went from one income households to two. A lot of dads discovered that mom was actually doing quite a lot of the work and the not-shitty ones started doing their share. Hard to meet up with the lads when you're consoling a sick kid.
  • AussieWog93 4y ago
    In spite of that, women have had larger and stronger social networks than men for decades/centuries (if not all of human history). Now, if anything, the gap is narrowing and women are becoming lonely at a rapid rate. Perhaps more evidence that catching up with the lads for a pint is less valuable than bringing over a casserole for a friend with a sick kid.
    • taneq 4y ago
      Is the gap narrowing because womens' social networks are weakening or because men are forming better peer groups?
    • Aeolun 4y ago
      People that you invite over to your house seem naturally more intimate friends?
      • cies 4y ago
        Hence American (?, not sure if it's not British, just assuming) has a nice word for it: Homey. (With possible gender differentiation to homeboy and homegirl)
    • CalRobert 4y ago
      True, though there's a lot going on. Urban design used to force more chance interactions and we're more physically isolated now, among other things. Sit next to someone on the bus or walk alongside them to the well? Strike up a conversation (unless you're British in which case I guess you sit on the bus in silence). Drive alongside them on the way to the grocery store? Not much chance to say hi there.
    • 4y ago
• balaji1 4y ago
  You are right, showing up to help or at least to anything they invite you to (even a simple lunch) is very important to continuity. One of the reasons I won't read these articles - I don't want the content to become an excuse/prescription for me losing touch with friends. Also who made the writer an expert? (May not apply to the author of this particular article, but I am generally skeptical).
• twelve40 4y ago
  > seems to be very modern, very Western I don't think this is true at all. I'm not from a Western culture originally, and my friends (who i love) across a whole slice of society (from bus drivers to tech executives) have sort of diverged. Some of them always make time no matter what. Others, despite being super helpful when they can, 100% put other priorities over friendship first. Pretty sure that's not just my case and not really limited to the West at all.
  • LAC-Tech 4y ago
    "That is always the way with stay-at-homes. If they like something in their own village they take it for a thing universal and eternal, though perhaps it was never heard of five miles away; if they dislike something, they say it is a local, backward, provincial convention, though, in fact, it may be the law of nations."
• mikepurvis 4y ago
  Definitely on this. I enjoy just hanging out and having a beer, but also painting a room, building a porch, doing a little demolition, taking our kids camping together. Time doesn't have to be a zero sum game. (And it’s the same with a lot of stuff— you don’t have to stop parenting to cook or clean or garden, do that stuff with the kids!) Another aspect I think is how much you plan things in advance, and how willing the people in your circle are to do stuff last minute. One of my groups is some neighborhood dads and every week or so they're like "hey, tonight or tomorrow?" and then it's a hang for whoever can make it, with no expectations or hurt feelings because it wasn’t possible to find a weeks-away date that magically worked for everyone’s calendars only to have half of them cancel at the last minute anyway. You need people receptive to this for it to work, but it has that fluidity of college dorm socializing once it gets going.
  • jeff-davis 4y ago
    "I enjoy just hanging out and having a beer, but also painting a room, building a porch, doing a little demolition" Perhaps that's the differece: specialization. More contractors and take-out meals mean less working with friends. Friends are good for unspecialized labor, but when you get into skilled labor it falls apart. The one plumber friend will get swamped with requests, and the quantum physicist may not find an opportunity to reciprocate.
    • TimTheTinker 4y ago
      > Friends are good for unspecialized labor, but when you get into skilled labor it falls apart. I wonder if this alone holds a lot of explanatory power for why people in many increasingly developed countries tend to have increasingly fewer close friends in their personal lives. Labor gets increasingly skilled and specialized (and requiring facilities, supplies, and support staff owned by large companies) leaving fewer opportunities to directly help people who live next door. And skilled/specialized labor pays more, so people have the money to just hire out any help they need. Thus fewer friendships form around a natural need for help from neighbors and the ability to meet such needs -- because both have decreased significantly. And along with less needing/helping, human connection and trust also suffer significantly. In the past, local community groups, especially churches and social clubs, helped significantly with fostering human connection; but those also are suffering significantly.
• popotamonga 4y ago
  > "let's catch up" friends seem to wither over time In my experience, at some point there is nothing to talk about anymore, i have some of those long term friends but it's getting to the point where they come by my house, catch up in 10 minutes and then spent the rest of time in the couch on the phone.
• lo_zamoyski 4y ago
  "The friendships where people rely on one another for assistance" and "'let's catch up' friends" would appear to be, according to Aristotle's analysis, friendships of utility and of pleasure, respectively. These are not bad, but there is a higher, more perfect, more durable form of friendship, the friendship of virtue [0], rooted in a common goal. Marriage is such a friendship, for example. It is not surprising, then, that friendships of pleasure or utility should more easily wane, while friendships of virtue are more lasting. [0] https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/16819/ https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/06/16819/
  • ericmcer 4y ago
    Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? That seems to violate the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships. I would define my wife as my wife and friend, because our status as friends could become shaky but she would still be my wife. Similarly a long time business partner could be someone I identify as a friend or not. Those are both relationships rooted in a common goal, but I think Aristotle's definition of friendship is a stretch here. I think the wisdom of "don't go into business with your friends" is more relevant in my life.
    • gilbert_vanova 4y ago
      > Is a friendship of virtue a friendship? Yes -- and it is plainly the highest form of friendship as it is the closest to dissolving the individual into a greater whole.
      • ericmcer 4y ago
        Sounds like something I would hear at a google all hands or something.
    • srean 4y ago
      > the idea that friendships are low-commitment and non-binding relationships Is that your idea of what a friendship is ? Friendship to me means far deeper than that.
• ericmcer 4y ago
  We like things to be "fair" and to have mutually beneficial relationships in our work life. On top of that we all struggle with being vulnerable so your idea of a friendship built on top of mutual reliance seems really difficult to pull off. Far more likely is you needing to accept that you will be doing most of the maintenance work around any of your adult friendships, and they might not have any "benefit" outside of being one of the few balms to existential dread.
• greggman3 4y ago
  My close friends with kids include their kids when visiting friends. We all love their kids. And we get to spend them with our friends.
• civilized 4y ago
  That must be why we find it hard to maintain friendships these days. We mostly just buy the goods and services we want, and the results are often more convenient and better quality. Mutual aid and dependence seems less necessary, even if it's maybe good for the spirit.
• foobiekr 4y ago
  It doesn't have to be that way, but my goodness, look at the transactional-mentalities on display below. It's sad.
• scarface74 4y ago
  Realistically, when would that happen with a middle class lifestyle? When ny car broke down, I call my roadside assistance to get it towed and took Uber home when my wife was working. When I need to move, I call movers. Same with home repairs. If I couldn’t cook for myself and assuming I wasn’t married (I am) I order in. I’m not saying having friends isn’t important for emotional reasons. But now, unless I lost my job and have lost my financial means, i usually “need” friends for emotional support. That being said, when my wife had surgery a few years ago, I really leaned on her (and my friends through association). My wife knew I would be an emotional wreck and they came for emotional support.
• anon291 4y ago
  > Somewhat counter-intuitively, doing simple things like giving a friend a lift when their car breaks down, providing them with meals when they're unable to cook for themselves or helping them move house actually cause you to value the relationship more. Why do you find this counterintuitive?