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I love driving stick and I've done so with all my cars...but I'm okay seeing it go. I'd prefer the options to be more environmental, and there are other joys in

I love driving stick and I've done so with all my cars...but I'm okay seeing it go. I'd prefer the options to be more environmental, and there are other joys in life. It's not good to be attached to such things.

aussiesnack 4y ago
Seems like a nicely balanced perspective. I don't drive much, but when I do, I much prefer 'manual' (translation of 'stick' to non-US English), and take pleasure in smooth heel-and-toe changes. I'm mostly a motorcyclist and similarly enjoy getting better at smooth braking with changing down and rev-matching. But if electric motorbikes become usable and affordable to me within my lifetime, they will offer different pleasures (ubiquitous torque, quiet). And outside of driving/riding, there will be enough pleasures to experience and skills to learn for many lifetimes.
fhood 4y ago
It's really stupid, but you can't tell me that the idea of a manual electric doesn't appeal to the less rational parts of your subconscious.
- ilyt 4y ago
  It doesn't. Driving ICE manual is the whole package. Engine sound, the manual interaction, the little jerk when you miss the rev on shift, feeling of all the mechanics when changing the gear, feeling the vibrations thru the chassis when you accelerate, engine going braaaaAAAAAP and screaming like angry bees when going past VTEC threshold etc. And the little details like how the notch on the first gear in my Civic ('07 Type-R) becomes lighter when the gearbox oil heats up and the whole rest of smaller idiosyncrasies of mechanical system. For me the fun is man understanding and controlling machine, it is gone the moment machine pretends it's something it isn't. Not saying electric wouldn't be fun, just that I hope it will be its own type of fun instead of fake. My car is a bit raw tho, spins to 8.6k RPM and have pretty hard suspension. Typical ICE car isn't exactly that "talkative" and is much more mushier around the edges. But it is a bit funny to me that if you want high revving NA engine your options are 15+ years old Hondas or top of the line Porsche...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  I’ve driven stick lots of my life and no it doesn’t. You press the pedal on electric and the smooth instant and seemingly endless application of power is one of the absolute best parts of it.
  - recyclelater 4y ago
    Don’t leave out the old Volkswagens! 7.5k on the tach on my 2.0 16v, very commonly pushed into mid 8s if you end up going to solid lifters and a set of cams. I agree though, nothing quite like a small 4 banger revving the moon.
- twblalock 4y ago
  It would be like those CVTs with fake shifts: unnecessary, phony, dishonest, and worse than actually embracing the technology and using it properly. If you want to feel "connected" to a modern car you are out of luck. It won't happen. Adding fakeness to compensate is ultimately unsatisfying.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > you can't tell me that the idea of a manual electric doesn't appeal to the less rational parts of your subconscious. I can absolutely tell you that. It sounds stupid and burdensome. And in terms of effectiveness, it's basically homeopathy, or healing candles.
hinkley 4y ago
I haven't driven stick in years, having bought a DSG car, but I still prefer 'driving one-handed' the way you do with a stick shift, and it's clear at this point that some people don't remember being passengers in a manual transmission vehicle, let alone driving them.
Karrot_Kream 4y ago
I recently switched from 10 years of driving stick/standard to an EV and the sensation of instant power dwarfs the fun of selecting gear for me. I might just still be in the honeymoon phase, and I barely drive preferring to bike around everywhere instead. But having ample power in every situation from highway acceleration to hill roads pretty much obsoletes everything I used the stick for. I guess I do miss the habit of clutching and heel-toeing but with an EV I get all the benefits with none of the fiddliness. This was not the case when driving anything but the top automatics.
- reubenswartz 4y ago
  Yup. Three pedals to one (plus what’s effectively an emergency break). I miss shifting at times, but the overall experience is much better.
- linsomniac 4y ago
  I've had an EV since 2016, and I'm a huge manual fan, but the things I like about manual are almost without exception already there in an EV. What really grinds my gears, so to speak, with an auto trans is being in the wrong gear for what's coming up, say when waiting for an opening to overtake. As you say, the EV has smooth, instant power available all the time, and good "engine breaking". The only thing it's missing is the nostalgia of winding through the gears and the symphony of the engine, exhaust, and drivetrain. But the smooth, powerful acceleration, is there in the EV.
thyrsus 4y ago
I feel just the same, with the proviso that I want a mechanical backup for catastrophic software bugs - a fully mechanical drive disengagement, aka shift to neutral. And the emergency, aka parking, brake should have no software mediation either, beyond sensors that signal software to "do the right thing" (park or neutral) with the drive. I haven't started looking at EVs, but one will probably be my next car when my current (stick) irreparably fails.
martinald 4y ago
It's definitely going. When I learnt to drive in the UK 15 years ago automatic cars were completely non existent (if you pass your driving test in an automatic in the UK you are only allowed to drive automatics - so everyone does manual, which allows you to drive both). Fast forward 15 years and I'm surprised when I see a stick shift car - primarily (very) old taxis/ubers.
- throwaway22032 4y ago
  That's pretty surprising to me. Where I am at least half of the cars in the street are 15-20 year old bangers that are almost all manual.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    I don't doubt that if you live in particular parts of London or the South East, you could see 90% fairly new vehicles with automatic gears or EVs. (Certainly not all of London, but if you live or work in one area you're less likely to walk down residential roads in other areas.) It's probably partly because disposable income is higher in London, but also because those with less money have better alternatives (good public transport) so don't own a car, or own one but don't use it much. > 62.4% of new cars sold in 2021 were automatics, up from 24% in 2011 [1] > A number of car makers offer only automatic gearboxes across their ranges, with no models from Mercedes, Genesis, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, Maserati, Rolls-Royce, Subaru and Volvo being available with manual transmissions. [1] https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-become-the-norm https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-becom...
  - martinald 4y ago
    Sorry, what I meant it's very rare to see a newish car that is manual. Old cars are manual of course. It was pretty unheard of to get an automatic new car 20 years ago.
    - throwaway22032 4y ago
      Ah yeah, fair enough, that makes a lot of sense and I agree. Here I feel like most of the new cars I notice are either automatic or EVs too :)
technothrasher 4y ago
I've accepted they have to go, and haven't had a manual daily driver in about ten years now. So I don't feel the need to have a manual option when I inevitably switch to an EV. But I also have a few classic cars that I can take out whenever I've got the itch. I suspect I'll keep a manual 'toy' car around until I'm too old to drive it.

aussiesnack 4y ago

Seems like a nicely balanced perspective. I don't drive much, but when I do, I much prefer 'manual' (translation of 'stick' to non-US English), and take pleasure in smooth heel-and-toe changes. I'm mostly a motorcyclist and similarly enjoy getting better at smooth braking with changing down and rev-matching. But if electric motorbikes become usable and affordable to me within my lifetime, they will offer different pleasures (ubiquitous torque, quiet). And outside of driving/riding, there will be enough pleasures to experience and skills to learn for many lifetimes.

fhood 4y ago

It's really stupid, but you can't tell me that the idea of a manual electric doesn't appeal to the less rational parts of your subconscious.

ilyt 4y ago
It doesn't. Driving ICE manual is the whole package. Engine sound, the manual interaction, the little jerk when you miss the rev on shift, feeling of all the mechanics when changing the gear, feeling the vibrations thru the chassis when you accelerate, engine going braaaaAAAAAP and screaming like angry bees when going past VTEC threshold etc. And the little details like how the notch on the first gear in my Civic ('07 Type-R) becomes lighter when the gearbox oil heats up and the whole rest of smaller idiosyncrasies of mechanical system. For me the fun is man understanding and controlling machine, it is gone the moment machine pretends it's something it isn't. Not saying electric wouldn't be fun, just that I hope it will be its own type of fun instead of fake. My car is a bit raw tho, spins to 8.6k RPM and have pretty hard suspension. Typical ICE car isn't exactly that "talkative" and is much more mushier around the edges. But it is a bit funny to me that if you want high revving NA engine your options are 15+ years old Hondas or top of the line Porsche...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Mistletoe 4y ago
I’ve driven stick lots of my life and no it doesn’t. You press the pedal on electric and the smooth instant and seemingly endless application of power is one of the absolute best parts of it.
- recyclelater 4y ago
  Don’t leave out the old Volkswagens! 7.5k on the tach on my 2.0 16v, very commonly pushed into mid 8s if you end up going to solid lifters and a set of cams. I agree though, nothing quite like a small 4 banger revving the moon.
twblalock 4y ago
It would be like those CVTs with fake shifts: unnecessary, phony, dishonest, and worse than actually embracing the technology and using it properly. If you want to feel "connected" to a modern car you are out of luck. It won't happen. Adding fakeness to compensate is ultimately unsatisfying.
masklinn 4y ago
> you can't tell me that the idea of a manual electric doesn't appeal to the less rational parts of your subconscious. I can absolutely tell you that. It sounds stupid and burdensome. And in terms of effectiveness, it's basically homeopathy, or healing candles.

hinkley 4y ago

I haven't driven stick in years, having bought a DSG car, but I still prefer 'driving one-handed' the way you do with a stick shift, and it's clear at this point that some people don't remember being passengers in a manual transmission vehicle, let alone driving them.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago

I recently switched from 10 years of driving stick/standard to an EV and the sensation of instant power dwarfs the fun of selecting gear for me. I might just still be in the honeymoon phase, and I barely drive preferring to bike around everywhere instead. But having ample power in every situation from highway acceleration to hill roads pretty much obsoletes everything I used the stick for. I guess I do miss the habit of clutching and heel-toeing but with an EV I get all the benefits with none of the fiddliness. This was not the case when driving anything but the top automatics.

reubenswartz 4y ago
Yup. Three pedals to one (plus what’s effectively an emergency break). I miss shifting at times, but the overall experience is much better.
linsomniac 4y ago
I've had an EV since 2016, and I'm a huge manual fan, but the things I like about manual are almost without exception already there in an EV. What really grinds my gears, so to speak, with an auto trans is being in the wrong gear for what's coming up, say when waiting for an opening to overtake. As you say, the EV has smooth, instant power available all the time, and good "engine breaking". The only thing it's missing is the nostalgia of winding through the gears and the symphony of the engine, exhaust, and drivetrain. But the smooth, powerful acceleration, is there in the EV.

thyrsus 4y ago

I feel just the same, with the proviso that I want a mechanical backup for catastrophic software bugs - a fully mechanical drive disengagement, aka shift to neutral. And the emergency, aka parking, brake should have no software mediation either, beyond sensors that signal software to "do the right thing" (park or neutral) with the drive. I haven't started looking at EVs, but one will probably be my next car when my current (stick) irreparably fails.

martinald 4y ago

It's definitely going. When I learnt to drive in the UK 15 years ago automatic cars were completely non existent (if you pass your driving test in an automatic in the UK you are only allowed to drive automatics - so everyone does manual, which allows you to drive both). Fast forward 15 years and I'm surprised when I see a stick shift car - primarily (very) old taxis/ubers.

throwaway22032 4y ago
That's pretty surprising to me. Where I am at least half of the cars in the street are 15-20 year old bangers that are almost all manual.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  I don't doubt that if you live in particular parts of London or the South East, you could see 90% fairly new vehicles with automatic gears or EVs. (Certainly not all of London, but if you live or work in one area you're less likely to walk down residential roads in other areas.) It's probably partly because disposable income is higher in London, but also because those with less money have better alternatives (good public transport) so don't own a car, or own one but don't use it much. > 62.4% of new cars sold in 2021 were automatics, up from 24% in 2011 [1] > A number of car makers offer only automatic gearboxes across their ranges, with no models from Mercedes, Genesis, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, Maserati, Rolls-Royce, Subaru and Volvo being available with manual transmissions. [1] https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-become-the-norm https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-becom...
- martinald 4y ago
  Sorry, what I meant it's very rare to see a newish car that is manual. Old cars are manual of course. It was pretty unheard of to get an automatic new car 20 years ago.
  - throwaway22032 4y ago
    Ah yeah, fair enough, that makes a lot of sense and I agree. Here I feel like most of the new cars I notice are either automatic or EVs too :)

technothrasher 4y ago

I've accepted they have to go, and haven't had a manual daily driver in about ten years now. So I don't feel the need to have a manual option when I inevitably switch to an EV. But I also have a few classic cars that I can take out whenever I've got the itch. I suspect I'll keep a manual 'toy' car around until I'm too old to drive it.