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I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back oth

I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this concern but when tech improves to the point where there's a better option to USB C (or USB C is holding back other advances), are we going to have to wait for legislation to catch up before we can adopt it?

WeylandYutani 4y ago
How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? All the companies will come together and decide to move to USB D because it's better. As I understand it USB is always backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a problem.
- zuhsetaqi 4y ago
  > How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? USB-C is by far not adopted by everyone but Apple. There are thousands of devices on Amazon which still use Micro-USB which is as annoying as Apple using Lightning
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
royjacobs 4y ago
Other charging options are allowed, it's just that there should _also_ be a USB-C option.
- andybak 4y ago
  Ah, right. I missed this nuance in the debate. In which case I wholeheartedly approve.
  - lzooz 4y ago
    You approve of having to have two charging ports in one smartphone?
    - Fiahil 4y ago
      Inductive charging, don't be silly.
      - wongarsu 4y ago
        Inductive charging doesn't count. You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging, but as soon as you have a physical connector that supports charging one of them has to be USB-C. (At least in the EU version of the requirement)
        Fiahil 4y ago
        > You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging That's a nice loophole there :) Anyway, it's not like USB-C isn't good enough and that they can't change the rules if/when a new connector get enough support. And to get enough support, it most likely means that it has to be compatible (in some way) with USB-C. That's a nice feature.
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      There are a lot more devices covered than just smartphones. Any superior connector can get market penetration in larger devices that have fewer problems with two charging ports (tablets, laptops, keyboards, battery operated loudspeakers, e-book readers, etc.). At that point the commission will either take notice on their own or can be lobbied to switch to the new connector with a sufficiently long transition period.
    - arlort 4y ago
      You think you'll need more than 240W of charging power on your phone? Maybe, but will it be so small to make two ports cumbersome? Doubtful imo
    - notRobot 4y ago
      USB ports can do a lot more than just charging
londons_explore 4y ago
The real solution is to not legislate a standard, but instead to say: "A 10% additional tax shall apply to the sale of any portable device. The tax will be reduced to zero if the device uses the most common charging port in the year the device was sold. The tax is reduced to 5% if it uses the 2nd most common port in the year it was sold." That means any big industry effort to move to a new port will, when it gets more than 50% support, will immediately get everyone else to move over to save money. And people can still use custom/niche ports, but they'll take a hit to their bottom line for the privilege - but it'll be worth it if the utility of the better port is good enough the user is happy to pay a premium for it. The fact the tax is determined at the end of the year means manufacturers have an incentive to work together on standardization even after devices are in the hands of consumers. For example, Apple could maybe open up lightning to other manufacturers and save a lot of taxes on devices already sold in that year, if they could make lightning the most popular in the year.
- ho_schi 4y ago
  Yes and no. This is a short/mid-term directive and as well a power-plug standard. Which is common across the world for decades. We all happily live with that already. Anyway, your basic idea is leading in a good direction and shall cover all important features: * Replacement parts for 5 (smartphone), 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 (plane) years * Open specification for replacement parts (manufacturer goes out of business, third parties take over) * Maintenance manuals. Like Lenovo provides for ThinkPads with explosive diagrams. FOR FREE. * If software is included, manufacturer must state in packaging how long upgrades and updates will be provided. * If software is included, it must be user replaceable. Even on an appliance, the manufacturer must provide instructions (e.g. EEPROM, replaceable chip, dongle which shows that software was user modified -> important for safety) * Repairability * More stuff... And every half year this rules will be re-evaluated and will show it with traffic signal colors {green, yellow, red}. Therefore it will adopt constantly and not a fixed final law. The taxes for red signals will pay for this constant re-evaluation. So you can still buy an iPhone but it will show some green parts and a lot of red. And an Android will show similar things. While a ThinkPad will probably show a lot of green but one big fat red for the soldered RAM. It also doesn't state that a largely red product is from an "evil" manufacturer, maybe it is a small business shipping a small batch for a specific customer base. While, when you buy a product which is green in all areas, you probably made a long term investment. PS: I doesn't necessarily need to rise prices, which politicians often do because it is "easy". Maybe replace the FAT or parts of it.
Lanolderen 4y ago
Yes although two charge ports doesn't sound impossible and/or especially bad to me. Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. Would be interested to know how much multiple charge ports affect price/complexity.
- constantcrying 4y ago
  Two charging ports do not work on a phone, space is tight in there already. >Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. The solution to that are adapters.
  - Lanolderen 4y ago
    I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. Phones charge pretty quickly no matter what you plug them into, at least in my experience (I'm not a phone gamer so ymmv), whereas I've seen more than one laptop lose battery while charging if doing something demanding. If I carried an adapter I'd probably have my charger with me to be honest and I don't know anyone nice enough to carry adapters for others.
    - anony999 4y ago
      >> I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. What kind of tablet needs more than 240w ? I think that's what Alienware uses as well so I doubt you will ever need more than that. Not to mention that the trend going towards more efficient electronics/chips etc.
      - Lanolderen 4y ago
        A poor take on my part. I admittedly have zero experience with tablets. I just assume due to the form factor and price that high end tablets are essentially a touch screen laptop without the keyboard.
  - xigoi 4y ago
ho_schi 4y ago
The EU is watching the USB-IF for further improvements. Currently it is limited to 100 Watt and common devices like latops and smartphones. And they're watching wireless-charging already. If Apple or some of the other usual suspects (Microsoft, Amazon, Google) tries to push a proprietary technology the can act hopefully quicker. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4614 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... I'm still looking for the part where exceptions are listed and there are already some e.g. for small fitness trackers. They are slow but not necessarily stupid. *Nobody prevents any manufacturer to add additional charging ports.* TLDR Power plugs across Europe and North America where standardized for decades. And guess what. That stuff works! And YES this new regulations actually implements a new power plug aside from the Europlug, USB Type-C. This is nothing entirely new or crazy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug
- constantcrying 4y ago
  I think it is disingenous to compare USB-C to power plugs. USB-C does a million more things than power delivery and there is significantly more room for innovation. >Nobody prevents any manufacturer to add additional charging ports. Except for market demands of smaller phones. My question to you is: would you have wanted micro-USB to be standardized like this?
  - crote 4y ago
    Micro-USB was standardized like this. And the law included a clause that said it had to be reviewed regularly to keep up with industry progress - which is why it is now switching to USB-C.
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      This is wrong. The EU issued an MoU and a charging standard which was voluntary. It was nothing more than them asking nicely to please use Micro-B. This is a law. It's completely different. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply
oittaa 4y ago
Literally from the law: > The application of the laws to new charging technologies should be regularly reviewed.
AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
constantcrying 4y ago
This is also my problem with this legislation. There is legitimate innovation in connector design. Surely people remember micro USB cables, which weren't really that good. I certainly never would have wanted them to become a mandated standard. While I think USB-C is quite well designed, this legislation makes it extremely hard for a superior standard to arise. The only reason USB-C has any grounds to be a mandated standard is because it already is widely used. For an alternative standard to arise, first you would need to convince multiple nation state governments and/or a multi-nation government to allow the standard to be used, even before it made it to market.
- input_sh 4y ago
  Micro USB was the EU standard, you already lived through that. That's why every Android and gadget out there used it, as opposed to 50 other connectors before that on feature phones. Apple found a loophole around it by shipping a dongle with iPhones. With the update to the standard that loophole was closed.
  - noselasd 4y ago
    While it was a EU standard, was it also an EU law ? If so, is the law removed, or is everyone breaking that law these days(As I don't see any phones being sold with micro-usb) but noone cares ?
    - input_sh 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... To summarize it mostly from memory, it was a voluntary agreement between 10(ish) phone manufacturers (Apple included) and the EU. It had an expiry date, and it was renewed on a yearly basis 2009-2014. In 2014 EU figured out this was working fine, and allowed itself up until 2020 to make it obligatory (as opposed to voluntary). They also took this time to figure out categories of products that should be impacted (headphones, cameras, those sorts of things). Then in 2021 they made changes to the directive, setting Type C as the standard. EU directives are not exactly laws. Instead, it's a way of telling member states what they should be implementing in their own national laws. Member states then have two years to do the actual implementation. So, late 2023 member states will all have slightly different laws, but basically all saying the same (Type C is the only connector allowed, users must have an option to exclude a charger from their purchase). Not quite the same as EU-wide law, but not quite different in practice. So what will happen after Type C is that the directive is going to be changed, and then there's again going to be a few in-between years. Probably somewhere in between 2 (deadline for member states to implement those changes) and 9 years (how long it took this time around, 2014-2023), because next time around they won't have to spend seven years figuring out details.
pjc50 4y ago
Probably yes: but that also means you can't just obsolete people's investments in USB-C. I still remember the era when you could get all sorts of iPod stands and furniture with 30-pin connectors in. Those hung around for years after Apple decided to make them worthless.
mrtksn 4y ago
Why would that be a problem at all? If a significant advance in charging connectors is made, they can simply amend the law. These laws don't say you can't make better chargers, they say if you make a mass produced device from the provided categories and it's going to charge by cable you will need to make sure that it has at least one USB-C charging port. Besides, this is only in EU(and India now). Sure, there's a Brussels effect but as you can see even with iPhone the companies can have multiple versions of a product. US iPhones don't have physical SIM cards anymore, the other have it. So if it happens that Apple invents significantly better charging port for the iPhone, they can sell those everywhere else in the world and EU can revisit the laws if there's an interest.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  > Why would that be a problem at all? If a significant advance in charging connectors is made, they can simply amend the law. The problem is if the law of 1 country is not amended then you have fragmentation. What does apple do? Change for 1 country and be fined in another? Not release in some countries? Have different devices?
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    EU is like %5 of the world population. Sure, it's a wealthier %5 but companies have different product lines all the time. This year the US iPhone doesn't have a physical SIM tray. So if EU acts slow on adopting this amazing new charging port, the Americans and Japanese can have it and EU can wait. It doesn't make much sense to keep having fragmentation now so that we don't risk a fragmentation in the future.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > The problem is if the law of 1 country is not amended then you have fragmentation. What does apple do? The Planet is a big place, the idea that could even produce one product for the entire world would be crazy for most of human history.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pretext-1 4y ago
The law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum. The goal of the law is to ensure standardization of connectors is happening, not to enforce USB-C forever. If "no laws" would be the solution, Apple would have switched to USB-C already. Unfortunately they didn't, proving the law was necessary.
- sylware 4y ago
  It is like for the web: the minimum interop requirement is the support of noscript/basic (x)html browsers, but it is perfectly ok to run on the side a full javascript GUI which will run in the few vanguard/blackrock massive web engines (aka blink/geeko/webkit detected via the user-agent http header).
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum Nobody is going to put two ports on a phome. Required minimum is the legislated maximum for physical interfaces.
  - Acinyx 4y ago
    I don't think you understand: It has to be USB-C or better. So if USB-D (or a worse name knowing the consortium) comes out, the idea behind the law is that it should also be allowed _instead_ of a USB-C port. IANAL though, so I am unsure how well they legally described that requirement.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > the idea behind the law is that it should also be allowed _instead_ of a USB-C port Indian courts are notoriously inefficient. “Better” would take a decade to define through case law. Anyone who can afford that is better served removing physical ports. In any case, I see no evidence of this in current releases [1]. [1] https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1876583 https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1876583
rippercushions 4y ago
This is India, it can take quite a while for legislation to catch up. I recently saw a colleague's customs form for shipping household goods, and the list of itemized goods to declare included Walkmen, digitizers, personal electronic diaries, modems, dictaphones and floppy disks.
- pietro72ohboy 4y ago
  I’d argue that listing archaic electronic items on a customs form is the correct way. Law and legal documents should assume a catch-all nature by design to address edge cases and until we can absolutely assure that all Walkman, floppies and similar items are out of public circulation for good, it is wise to list them explicitly on a customs form. The alternative to this is the usage of “including, but not limited to, phones, mp3 players” which leaves you guessing if something needs to be listed or not.
the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
If only there was a way to put a second connector to the device.
izacus 4y ago
Last I checked the EU part of legislation, it has an expiry built into the process.
japanuspus 4y ago
By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. One example of progress on power outlets I know of is Denmark: Here the non-grounded plug has been compatible with Schuko outlets as used in most of the rest of Northern Europe, and Schuko connectors will fit in the outlets without ground connection. Since most appliances come with Schuko plugs, a decision has been made for new installations to use the Schuko outlet, allowing a gradual transition to the Schuko standard.
- kmlx 4y ago
  > By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. if only it was this simple. 1. usually power outlets are standardised across countries (but there are countries where this is not the case and you'll find different plugs in the same country). two countries that share a border can have two or more completely different outlets/plugs. 2. power outlets are very simple devices. especially compared to usb-c. 3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug. even so i think the chance of, for example, Denmark adopting this plug are close to zero. so it's all very grey.
  - vinay427 4y ago
    > 3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug. One massive downside of the type G plug (UK, Ireland, etc.) is its size. Most mobile charging adapters for phones or even laptops are 30-80% bigger, in my anecdotal experience, than the type A equivalent. The plug is well-designed from a safety and robustness perspective, and I appreciate that it's far better than the two-prong "Europlug" (for instance) at firmly attaching to a wall outlet, but it really should have been miniaturized. The type L, J, and B plugs are far more compact as three-prong plugs go, even if they lack the third-prong shutter activation and fuse.
  - realityking 4y ago
    I don’t understand the fetishism for type G plus so many folks seem to have. The design with the included fuse (and the necessary size for that) is solving a very UK specific problem (ring circuits). In any other case type E/F and N seem strictly superior.

WeylandYutani 4y ago

How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? All the companies will come together and decide to move to USB D because it's better. As I understand it USB is always backwards compatible so it wouldn't be a problem.

zuhsetaqi 4y ago
> How did USB C get adopted by everyone but Apple? USB-C is by far not adopted by everyone but Apple. There are thousands of devices on Amazon which still use Micro-USB which is as annoying as Apple using Lightning

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

royjacobs 4y ago

Other charging options are allowed, it's just that there should _also_ be a USB-C option.

andybak 4y ago
Ah, right. I missed this nuance in the debate. In which case I wholeheartedly approve.
- lzooz 4y ago
  You approve of having to have two charging ports in one smartphone?
  - Fiahil 4y ago
    Inductive charging, don't be silly.
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      Inductive charging doesn't count. You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging, but as soon as you have a physical connector that supports charging one of them has to be USB-C. (At least in the EU version of the requirement)
      - Fiahil 4y ago
        > You can get out of the USB-C requirement by having only inductive charging That's a nice loophole there :) Anyway, it's not like USB-C isn't good enough and that they can't change the rules if/when a new connector get enough support. And to get enough support, it most likely means that it has to be compatible (in some way) with USB-C. That's a nice feature.
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    There are a lot more devices covered than just smartphones. Any superior connector can get market penetration in larger devices that have fewer problems with two charging ports (tablets, laptops, keyboards, battery operated loudspeakers, e-book readers, etc.). At that point the commission will either take notice on their own or can be lobbied to switch to the new connector with a sufficiently long transition period.
  - arlort 4y ago
    You think you'll need more than 240W of charging power on your phone? Maybe, but will it be so small to make two ports cumbersome? Doubtful imo
  - notRobot 4y ago
    USB ports can do a lot more than just charging

londons_explore 4y ago

The real solution is to not legislate a standard, but instead to say: "A 10% additional tax shall apply to the sale of any portable device. The tax will be reduced to zero if the device uses the most common charging port in the year the device was sold. The tax is reduced to 5% if it uses the 2nd most common port in the year it was sold." That means any big industry effort to move to a new port will, when it gets more than 50% support, will immediately get everyone else to move over to save money. And people can still use custom/niche ports, but they'll take a hit to their bottom line for the privilege - but it'll be worth it if the utility of the better port is good enough the user is happy to pay a premium for it. The fact the tax is determined at the end of the year means manufacturers have an incentive to work together on standardization even after devices are in the hands of consumers. For example, Apple could maybe open up lightning to other manufacturers and save a lot of taxes on devices already sold in that year, if they could make lightning the most popular in the year.

ho_schi 4y ago
Yes and no. This is a short/mid-term directive and as well a power-plug standard. Which is common across the world for decades. We all happily live with that already. Anyway, your basic idea is leading in a good direction and shall cover all important features: * Replacement parts for 5 (smartphone), 10, 15, 20, 25 or 30 (plane) years * Open specification for replacement parts (manufacturer goes out of business, third parties take over) * Maintenance manuals. Like Lenovo provides for ThinkPads with explosive diagrams. FOR FREE. * If software is included, manufacturer must state in packaging how long upgrades and updates will be provided. * If software is included, it must be user replaceable. Even on an appliance, the manufacturer must provide instructions (e.g. EEPROM, replaceable chip, dongle which shows that software was user modified -> important for safety) * Repairability * More stuff... And every half year this rules will be re-evaluated and will show it with traffic signal colors {green, yellow, red}. Therefore it will adopt constantly and not a fixed final law. The taxes for red signals will pay for this constant re-evaluation. So you can still buy an iPhone but it will show some green parts and a lot of red. And an Android will show similar things. While a ThinkPad will probably show a lot of green but one big fat red for the soldered RAM. It also doesn't state that a largely red product is from an "evil" manufacturer, maybe it is a small business shipping a small batch for a specific customer base. While, when you buy a product which is green in all areas, you probably made a long term investment. PS: I doesn't necessarily need to rise prices, which politicians often do because it is "easy". Maybe replace the FAT or parts of it.

Lanolderen 4y ago

Yes although two charge ports doesn't sound impossible and/or especially bad to me. Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. Would be interested to know how much multiple charge ports affect price/complexity.

constantcrying 4y ago
Two charging ports do not work on a phone, space is tight in there already. >Especially if the port is a brand new standard you'll never be able to borrow a charge cable for from a friend. The solution to that are adapters.
- Lanolderen 4y ago
  I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. Phones charge pretty quickly no matter what you plug them into, at least in my experience (I'm not a phone gamer so ymmv), whereas I've seen more than one laptop lose battery while charging if doing something demanding. If I carried an adapter I'd probably have my charger with me to be honest and I don't know anyone nice enough to carry adapters for others.
  - anony999 4y ago
    >> I'm honestly only worried about charging speed on laptops and tablets. What kind of tablet needs more than 240w ? I think that's what Alienware uses as well so I doubt you will ever need more than that. Not to mention that the trend going towards more efficient electronics/chips etc.
    - Lanolderen 4y ago
      A poor take on my part. I admittedly have zero experience with tablets. I just assume due to the form factor and price that high end tablets are essentially a touch screen laptop without the keyboard.
- xigoi 4y ago

ho_schi 4y ago

The EU is watching the USB-IF for further improvements. Currently it is limited to 100 Watt and common devices like latops and smartphones. And they're watching wireless-charging already. If Apple or some of the other usual suspects (Microsoft, Amazon, Google) tries to push a proprietary technology the can act hopefully quicker. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_21_4614 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... I'm still looking for the part where exceptions are listed and there are already some e.g. for small fitness trackers. They are slow but not necessarily stupid. *Nobody prevents any manufacturer to add additional charging ports.* TLDR Power plugs across Europe and North America where standardized for decades. And guess what. That stuff works! And YES this new regulations actually implements a new power plug aside from the Europlug, USB Type-C. This is nothing entirely new or crazy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug

constantcrying 4y ago
I think it is disingenous to compare USB-C to power plugs. USB-C does a million more things than power delivery and there is significantly more room for innovation. >Nobody prevents any manufacturer to add additional charging ports. Except for market demands of smaller phones. My question to you is: would you have wanted micro-USB to be standardized like this?
- crote 4y ago
  Micro-USB was standardized like this. And the law included a clause that said it had to be reviewed regularly to keep up with industry progress - which is why it is now switching to USB-C.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    This is wrong. The EU issued an MoU and a charging standard which was voluntary. It was nothing more than them asking nicely to please use Micro-B. This is a law. It's completely different. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

oittaa 4y ago

Literally from the law: > The application of the laws to new charging technologies should be regularly reviewed.

AlgorithmicTime 4y ago

constantcrying 4y ago

This is also my problem with this legislation. There is legitimate innovation in connector design. Surely people remember micro USB cables, which weren't really that good. I certainly never would have wanted them to become a mandated standard. While I think USB-C is quite well designed, this legislation makes it extremely hard for a superior standard to arise. The only reason USB-C has any grounds to be a mandated standard is because it already is widely used. For an alternative standard to arise, first you would need to convince multiple nation state governments and/or a multi-nation government to allow the standard to be used, even before it made it to market.

input_sh 4y ago
Micro USB was the EU standard, you already lived through that. That's why every Android and gadget out there used it, as opposed to 50 other connectors before that on feature phones. Apple found a loophole around it by shipping a dongle with iPhones. With the update to the standard that loophole was closed.
- noselasd 4y ago
  While it was a EU standard, was it also an EU law ? If so, is the law removed, or is everyone breaking that law these days(As I don't see any phones being sold with micro-usb) but noone cares ?
  - input_sh 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#H... To summarize it mostly from memory, it was a voluntary agreement between 10(ish) phone manufacturers (Apple included) and the EU. It had an expiry date, and it was renewed on a yearly basis 2009-2014. In 2014 EU figured out this was working fine, and allowed itself up until 2020 to make it obligatory (as opposed to voluntary). They also took this time to figure out categories of products that should be impacted (headphones, cameras, those sorts of things). Then in 2021 they made changes to the directive, setting Type C as the standard. EU directives are not exactly laws. Instead, it's a way of telling member states what they should be implementing in their own national laws. Member states then have two years to do the actual implementation. So, late 2023 member states will all have slightly different laws, but basically all saying the same (Type C is the only connector allowed, users must have an option to exclude a charger from their purchase). Not quite the same as EU-wide law, but not quite different in practice. So what will happen after Type C is that the directive is going to be changed, and then there's again going to be a few in-between years. Probably somewhere in between 2 (deadline for member states to implement those changes) and 9 years (how long it took this time around, 2014-2023), because next time around they won't have to spend seven years figuring out details.

pjc50 4y ago

Probably yes: but that also means you can't just obsolete people's investments in USB-C. I still remember the era when you could get all sorts of iPod stands and furniture with 30-pin connectors in. Those hung around for years after Apple decided to make them worthless.

mrtksn 4y ago

Why would that be a problem at all? If a significant advance in charging connectors is made, they can simply amend the law. These laws don't say you can't make better chargers, they say if you make a mass produced device from the provided categories and it's going to charge by cable you will need to make sure that it has at least one USB-C charging port. Besides, this is only in EU(and India now). Sure, there's a Brussels effect but as you can see even with iPhone the companies can have multiple versions of a product. US iPhones don't have physical SIM cards anymore, the other have it. So if it happens that Apple invents significantly better charging port for the iPhone, they can sell those everywhere else in the world and EU can revisit the laws if there's an interest.

philliphaydon 4y ago
> Why would that be a problem at all? If a significant advance in charging connectors is made, they can simply amend the law. The problem is if the law of 1 country is not amended then you have fragmentation. What does apple do? Change for 1 country and be fined in another? Not release in some countries? Have different devices?
- mrtksn 4y ago
  EU is like %5 of the world population. Sure, it's a wealthier %5 but companies have different product lines all the time. This year the US iPhone doesn't have a physical SIM tray. So if EU acts slow on adopting this amazing new charging port, the Americans and Japanese can have it and EU can wait. It doesn't make much sense to keep having fragmentation now so that we don't risk a fragmentation in the future.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > The problem is if the law of 1 country is not amended then you have fragmentation. What does apple do? The Planet is a big place, the idea that could even produce one product for the entire world would be crazy for most of human history.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

pretext-1 4y ago

The law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum. The goal of the law is to ensure standardization of connectors is happening, not to enforce USB-C forever. If "no laws" would be the solution, Apple would have switched to USB-C already. Unfortunately they didn't, proving the law was necessary.

sylware 4y ago
It is like for the web: the minimum interop requirement is the support of noscript/basic (x)html browsers, but it is perfectly ok to run on the side a full javascript GUI which will run in the few vanguard/blackrock massive web engines (aka blink/geeko/webkit detected via the user-agent http header).
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> law allows newer standards to be used. USB-C is just the required minimum Nobody is going to put two ports on a phome. Required minimum is the legislated maximum for physical interfaces.
- Acinyx 4y ago
  I don't think you understand: It has to be USB-C or better. So if USB-D (or a worse name knowing the consortium) comes out, the idea behind the law is that it should also be allowed _instead_ of a USB-C port. IANAL though, so I am unsure how well they legally described that requirement.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > the idea behind the law is that it should also be allowed _instead_ of a USB-C port Indian courts are notoriously inefficient. “Better” would take a decade to define through case law. Anyone who can afford that is better served removing physical ports. In any case, I see no evidence of this in current releases [1]. [1] https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1876583 https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1876583

rippercushions 4y ago

This is India, it can take quite a while for legislation to catch up. I recently saw a colleague's customs form for shipping household goods, and the list of itemized goods to declare included Walkmen, digitizers, personal electronic diaries, modems, dictaphones and floppy disks.

pietro72ohboy 4y ago
I’d argue that listing archaic electronic items on a customs form is the correct way. Law and legal documents should assume a catch-all nature by design to address edge cases and until we can absolutely assure that all Walkman, floppies and similar items are out of public circulation for good, it is wise to list them explicitly on a customs form. The alternative to this is the usage of “including, but not limited to, phones, mp3 players” which leaves you guessing if something needs to be listed or not.

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago

If only there was a way to put a second connector to the device.

izacus 4y ago

Last I checked the EU part of legislation, it has an expiry built into the process.

japanuspus 4y ago

By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. One example of progress on power outlets I know of is Denmark: Here the non-grounded plug has been compatible with Schuko outlets as used in most of the rest of Northern Europe, and Schuko connectors will fit in the outlets without ground connection. Since most appliances come with Schuko plugs, a decision has been made for new installations to use the Schuko outlet, allowing a gradual transition to the Schuko standard.

kmlx 4y ago
> By the same token, standardized power outlets would be an affront to the free market and an impediment to progress. if only it was this simple. 1. usually power outlets are standardised across countries (but there are countries where this is not the case and you'll find different plugs in the same country). two countries that share a border can have two or more completely different outlets/plugs. 2. power outlets are very simple devices. especially compared to usb-c. 3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug. even so i think the chance of, for example, Denmark adopting this plug are close to zero. so it's all very grey.
- vinay427 4y ago
  > 3. but the G Plug is known to be one of the best, if not the best electrical plug. One massive downside of the type G plug (UK, Ireland, etc.) is its size. Most mobile charging adapters for phones or even laptops are 30-80% bigger, in my anecdotal experience, than the type A equivalent. The plug is well-designed from a safety and robustness perspective, and I appreciate that it's far better than the two-prong "Europlug" (for instance) at firmly attaching to a wall outlet, but it really should have been miniaturized. The type L, J, and B plugs are far more compact as three-prong plugs go, even if they lack the third-prong shutter activation and fuse.
- realityking 4y ago
  I don’t understand the fetishism for type G plus so many folks seem to have. The design with the included fuse (and the necessary size for that) is solving a very UK specific problem (ring circuits). In any other case type E/F and N seem strictly superior.