6 ms·

It still absolutely rocks if acceleration speed is your most important metric (which I personally find quite compelling), but in pretty much every other aspect

It still absolutely rocks if acceleration speed is your most important metric (which I personally find quite compelling), but in pretty much every other aspect they're janky cars compared to similar vehicles in the same price range and even some cheaper ones. Very fun to drive though.

bell-cot 4y ago
THIS. "Extremely powerful & fast, fun to drive, and the company making 'em is run by an alpha macho guy who also builds space rockets"...yeah, that has huge emotional appeal to a large number of well-to-do males - who would not want to be seen in a Nissan Leaf, Toyota Prius, etc.
- eastendguy 4y ago
  So, what other car (that I can buy now) gives me the same range?
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Tesla Model 3 - 374 miles BMW i4 - 365 miles Ford Mustang Mach-E - 379 miles BMW iX - 380 miles Mercedes EQE - 384 miles
    - bell-cot 4y ago
      First impression: those ranges are well within manufacturing tolerances / testing quirks / etc. of each other.
      - polygamous_bat 4y ago
        Apologies in advance because I don't know much about cars, but how can there be a 100km difference just from testing quirks?
        bell-cot 4y ago
        (My reply was to cjrp's comment - where the largest difference was only 19 miles.)
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      That's interesting. I don't own a car and I'm not looking for one, but I still had the impression Tesla was leading on range. However, they're beaten at both price levels, potentially with a significant price discount. Mercedes EQS 450+, 640km, €106,307 Tesla Model S Plaid, 540km, €140,995 Mercedes EQE 350+, 525km, € 79,850 Tesla Model 3 LR DM, 485km, € 60,995 BMW i4 eDrive40, 470km, € 60,630 VW ID.3 Pro S 5Seats 450km, € 43,720 https://ev-database.org/#sort:path~type~order=.erange_real~number~desc|availability-checkbox-dropdown:pathGroup=.current https://ev-database.org/#sort:path~type~order=.erange_real~n...
      - fallingknife 4y ago
        There's a third issue besides price and range in the EV market right now. Wait time. e.g. that VW ID.3 has a wait time of over a year for delivery. That crosses it off my shopping list, unfortunately.
      - raspberry1337 4y ago
        In Europe where I live - VW, BMW and Mercedes do not have a reliable system of recharging for longer trips. Why they are not working to create that is beyond me.
        mingus88 4y ago
        Ironically, the US has a head start on a nationwide EV charging network specifically because VW was a bad faith actor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America#History VW only did this because they were forced to. It's no mystery why traditional ICE manufacturers would be dragging their feet to modernize.
        brohee 4y ago
        Ionity is owned exactly by those actors, and seems pretty developed (and developing) to me https://ionity.eu/en/network/network-status https://ionity.eu/en/network/network-status
        clouddrover 4y ago
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      Real world range tests for highway driving: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/
      - _ea1k 4y ago
        That is one of the best tests out there, IMO. I do wish they'd add their charge curve details to it somehow. Something like the estimated time to completely a 600 mile trip would be an interesting detail, as range isn't the only thing that matters.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      marketing claims or real mileage? because european manufacturers making up numbers is a thing as proven in court.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Aren't all EV ranges measured based on the latest EU measurement standard? Which means cars are incredibly prepped for those tests, but the results are not made up and they are more or less comparable between models and brands.
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      The i4 is overrated there. I think the 70mph test was only ~240 miles. The 3 LR does ~300 on the same test. The 3 also wins on charge speeds. The Mach-E and ix are both a little better than they look though. The ix actually does amazingly well on range tests.
  - MrMan 4y ago
    make sure to researched tested vs claimed range, Teslas have good range but fall short from claimed range by large %, there are cars that end up having the same or better range like the Taycan even though the claimed range from Porsche is less! do your own research, correlation is not your coin, etc
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      Yes, its complicated. Most people are more concerned with highway miles in the real world, but the big number that gets printed is combined milage.
  - ulfw 4y ago
    A Mercedes EQS has more range than even the best Tesla S Dual Motor. A Lucid Air too.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  > huge emotional appeal to a large number of well-to-do males and yet I know more female Tesla owners than male
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Sounds more like cargo-culting boys rather than adult males... I've personally know noone who decides car buys based on this, and this counts also 2 tesla owners. Car sale tax discounts, free charging, plenty of charging spots were the actual reasons for those 2 (myself I am still happily on petrol for next decade at least, thank you)
- dbfx 4y ago
  [dead]
_ea1k 4y ago
I can't agree with that. They are certainly not janky compared to the Leaf or Bolt and up until fairly recently the 3 was price competitive with the Bolt. Beyond that, comparisons get more complicated, but there are still perks to the 3/Y. For example, the Ioniq 5 and EV6 charge faster but have less real world range at highway speeds. In practice, this negates most of their charging advantage. If you want the best EV sedan for road tripping in the US right now, there is nothing lower price and also better than the 3 LR.

bell-cot 4y ago

THIS. "Extremely powerful & fast, fun to drive, and the company making 'em is run by an alpha macho guy who also builds space rockets"...yeah, that has huge emotional appeal to a large number of well-to-do males - who would not want to be seen in a Nissan Leaf, Toyota Prius, etc.

eastendguy 4y ago
So, what other car (that I can buy now) gives me the same range?
- cjrp 4y ago
  Tesla Model 3 - 374 miles BMW i4 - 365 miles Ford Mustang Mach-E - 379 miles BMW iX - 380 miles Mercedes EQE - 384 miles
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    First impression: those ranges are well within manufacturing tolerances / testing quirks / etc. of each other.
    - polygamous_bat 4y ago
      Apologies in advance because I don't know much about cars, but how can there be a 100km difference just from testing quirks?
      - bell-cot 4y ago
        (My reply was to cjrp's comment - where the largest difference was only 19 miles.)
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    That's interesting. I don't own a car and I'm not looking for one, but I still had the impression Tesla was leading on range. However, they're beaten at both price levels, potentially with a significant price discount. Mercedes EQS 450+, 640km, €106,307 Tesla Model S Plaid, 540km, €140,995 Mercedes EQE 350+, 525km, € 79,850 Tesla Model 3 LR DM, 485km, € 60,995 BMW i4 eDrive40, 470km, € 60,630 VW ID.3 Pro S 5Seats 450km, € 43,720 https://ev-database.org/#sort:path~type~order=.erange_real~number~desc|availability-checkbox-dropdown:pathGroup=.current https://ev-database.org/#sort:path~type~order=.erange_real~n...
    - fallingknife 4y ago
      There's a third issue besides price and range in the EV market right now. Wait time. e.g. that VW ID.3 has a wait time of over a year for delivery. That crosses it off my shopping list, unfortunately.
    - raspberry1337 4y ago
      In Europe where I live - VW, BMW and Mercedes do not have a reliable system of recharging for longer trips. Why they are not working to create that is beyond me.
      - mingus88 4y ago
        Ironically, the US has a head start on a nationwide EV charging network specifically because VW was a bad faith actor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America#History VW only did this because they were forced to. It's no mystery why traditional ICE manufacturers would be dragging their feet to modernize.
      - brohee 4y ago
        Ionity is owned exactly by those actors, and seems pretty developed (and developing) to me https://ionity.eu/en/network/network-status https://ionity.eu/en/network/network-status
      - clouddrover 4y ago
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    Real world range tests for highway driving: https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      That is one of the best tests out there, IMO. I do wish they'd add their charge curve details to it somehow. Something like the estimated time to completely a 600 mile trip would be an interesting detail, as range isn't the only thing that matters.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    marketing claims or real mileage? because european manufacturers making up numbers is a thing as proven in court.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Aren't all EV ranges measured based on the latest EU measurement standard? Which means cars are incredibly prepped for those tests, but the results are not made up and they are more or less comparable between models and brands.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    The i4 is overrated there. I think the 70mph test was only ~240 miles. The 3 LR does ~300 on the same test. The 3 also wins on charge speeds. The Mach-E and ix are both a little better than they look though. The ix actually does amazingly well on range tests.
- MrMan 4y ago
  make sure to researched tested vs claimed range, Teslas have good range but fall short from claimed range by large %, there are cars that end up having the same or better range like the Taycan even though the claimed range from Porsche is less! do your own research, correlation is not your coin, etc
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Yes, its complicated. Most people are more concerned with highway miles in the real world, but the big number that gets printed is combined milage.
- ulfw 4y ago
  A Mercedes EQS has more range than even the best Tesla S Dual Motor. A Lucid Air too.
listenallyall 4y ago
> huge emotional appeal to a large number of well-to-do males and yet I know more female Tesla owners than male
saiya-jin 4y ago
Sounds more like cargo-culting boys rather than adult males... I've personally know noone who decides car buys based on this, and this counts also 2 tesla owners. Car sale tax discounts, free charging, plenty of charging spots were the actual reasons for those 2 (myself I am still happily on petrol for next decade at least, thank you)
dbfx 4y ago
[dead]

_ea1k 4y ago

I can't agree with that. They are certainly not janky compared to the Leaf or Bolt and up until fairly recently the 3 was price competitive with the Bolt. Beyond that, comparisons get more complicated, but there are still perks to the 3/Y. For example, the Ioniq 5 and EV6 charge faster but have less real world range at highway speeds. In practice, this negates most of their charging advantage. If you want the best EV sedan for road tripping in the US right now, there is nothing lower price and also better than the 3 LR.