4 ms·

I wonder if this could result in another round of costly SOX-like regulations?

by gdw2 4y ago

mikeyouse 4y ago
I really doubt it - it was just a dumb unregulated offshore startup doing a bunch of stuff that's already illegal. SOX wouldn’t help since FTX apparently didn’t have anything resembling audited financials vs Enron, a public company that abused GAAP to generate misleading financials. It would be a much different story if FTX had gone public or if they had a reputable audit firm vouching for them.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Why would it? FTX wasn’t playing by existing US regulations anyway. Even the most basic regulations would have squashed FTX’s entire fraud from the start. They weren’t bothering to play by any rules because they knew they could get away with it.
- whatshisface 4y ago
  Regulations didn't stop Enron.
  - muglug 4y ago
    Yes, which is why the US Congress added a whole bunch of new regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley) to prevent future Enrons.
    - alfalfasprout 4y ago
      Which require compliance with them. If you work at a company that cares to actually comply they will. I luckily work somewhere where it's taken seriously. But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance
      - datavirtue 4y ago
        The banking, finance, and corporate accounting world and their practices would shock most devs to the core. Most people just assume that certain controls are being enacted with precision. Things like: customer account reconciliation, bank account reconciliation, etc. Most of the time people just aggregate values and never inspect the detail. They record those aggregates in the GL and move on. I have never seen granular recon. That is why embezzlement is only discovered by accident years later.
        andrekandre 4y ago
        > They record those aggregates in the GL and move on. what is gl?
        c22 4y ago
        Perhaps general ledger?
        zevra 4y ago
        general ledger?
      - TuringNYC 4y ago
        >> But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance Regulations are usually backwards looking. So at least we never get Enron/GlobalCrossing/etc again. Then another waves of crises happen, and we get new regulations. So Fannie/Freddie happened in 2004-2007 and we got brightline guidance and application of FAS91 and EITF-9920. So then AIG/Lehman/Bear happened in 2007/2008 and we got Dodd Frank. Again backwards looking but we end up in a better place. The regulation stacks upon regulation, but I think this is good.
        oblio 4y ago
        > The regulation stacks upon regulation, but I think this is good. The correct way to think about it is scammers versus law makers. Scammers are both trying to scam and also to blend in. So it's hard at first to draw lines. Them the lines burst onto the scene, when scammers become obvious. So law makers write that up, and scammers have to find something new.
- stale2002 4y ago
  I think the way to attack this would be on them having US customers. Yeah, technically they "banned" US customers. They were also doing sponsorships, and advertisement in literal US basketball stadiums. Clearly they knew they had US customers and were attempting to get them.
  - TuringNYC 4y ago
    >> Clearly they knew they had US customers and were attempting to get them. And they did, except they got overseas-registered hedge fund subsidiaries, where the managers were US residents (probably living in NY/CT/FL.) We arent providing SIPC/FDIC backstopping to the customers, since it aint our jurisdiction. We arent bailing them out, so far.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    FTX had two exchanges: FTX.us for US customers (with limited features), and FTX.com for the rest of the world.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  The favorite pastime of politicians is creating regulations to make safer an environment where nobody follows regulations.
  - oblio 4y ago
    This is provably wrong and it would take you 2 minutes to find out why. Yes, there are failures. But we have minimum wages, no child labor, protection against harassment, seat belts, fraud laws, etc, etc, all thanks to regulation. Regulation created by politicians.
alecco 4y ago
I bet it's going to be used to push CBDC.
SoftTalker 4y ago
Serious prison time for the executives involved would probably be more effective.
- realist20222 4y ago
  >> Serious prison time for the executives involved would probably be more effective. Top executives, especially well-connected ones never get prison time. Instead, you usually have Indian/Chinese scapegoats or someone equally disliked. The entire flash crash was blamed on a lone indian man living with his parents: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-51265169 https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-51265169 Nevermind Citadel, 2Sigma, Jane Street, Goldman Sachs The 2008 scandal fell upon an Arab man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Serageldin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Serageldin He is notable for being the only banker in the United States to be sentenced to jail time as a result of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, a conviction resulting from mismarking bond prices to hide losses.[1][2] If I were this guy, i'd be really really worried about now: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/cryptocurrency/ftx-collapse-indian-origin-executive-nishad-singh-was-part-of-co-founders-inner-circle-that-ran-crypto-empire/articleshow/95491869.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/cryptocurrency/... Side note: If you work for a shady company, and you're the only colored guy on the exec team, you are probably there for a reason, and the reason isnt good.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Never say never. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Skilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Skilling
  - spfzero 4y ago
    Bernie Madoff was a top executive, with great connections.
    - nullc 4y ago
      most of big beneficiaries of the Madoff scam e.g. Picower (found dead the the bottom of his pool) and including Madoff's children, were dead within a couple years after the collapse.

I wonder if this could result in another round of costly SOX-like regulations?

by gdw2 4y ago

I wonder if this could result in another round of costly SOX-like regulations?

I really doubt it - it was just a dumb unregulated offshore startup doing a bunch of stuff that's already illegal. SOX wouldn’t help since FTX apparently didn’t have anything resembling audited financials vs Enron, a public company that abused GAAP to generate misleading financials. It would be a much different story if FTX had gone public or if they had a reputable audit firm vouching for them.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

Why would it? FTX wasn’t playing by existing US regulations anyway. Even the most basic regulations would have squashed FTX’s entire fraud from the start. They weren’t bothering to play by any rules because they knew they could get away with it.

whatshisface 4y ago
Regulations didn't stop Enron.
- muglug 4y ago
  Yes, which is why the US Congress added a whole bunch of new regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley) to prevent future Enrons.
  - alfalfasprout 4y ago
    Which require compliance with them. If you work at a company that cares to actually comply they will. I luckily work somewhere where it's taken seriously. But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance
    - datavirtue 4y ago
      The banking, finance, and corporate accounting world and their practices would shock most devs to the core. Most people just assume that certain controls are being enacted with precision. Things like: customer account reconciliation, bank account reconciliation, etc. Most of the time people just aggregate values and never inspect the detail. They record those aggregates in the GL and move on. I have never seen granular recon. That is why embezzlement is only discovered by accident years later.
      - andrekandre 4y ago
        > They record those aggregates in the GL and move on. what is gl?
        c22 4y ago
        Perhaps general ledger?
        zevra 4y ago
        general ledger?
    - TuringNYC 4y ago
      >> But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance Regulations are usually backwards looking. So at least we never get Enron/GlobalCrossing/etc again. Then another waves of crises happen, and we get new regulations. So Fannie/Freddie happened in 2004-2007 and we got brightline guidance and application of FAS91 and EITF-9920. So then AIG/Lehman/Bear happened in 2007/2008 and we got Dodd Frank. Again backwards looking but we end up in a better place. The regulation stacks upon regulation, but I think this is good.
      - oblio 4y ago
        > The regulation stacks upon regulation, but I think this is good. The correct way to think about it is scammers versus law makers. Scammers are both trying to scam and also to blend in. So it's hard at first to draw lines. Them the lines burst onto the scene, when scammers become obvious. So law makers write that up, and scammers have to find something new.
stale2002 4y ago
I think the way to attack this would be on them having US customers. Yeah, technically they "banned" US customers. They were also doing sponsorships, and advertisement in literal US basketball stadiums. Clearly they knew they had US customers and were attempting to get them.
- TuringNYC 4y ago
  >> Clearly they knew they had US customers and were attempting to get them. And they did, except they got overseas-registered hedge fund subsidiaries, where the managers were US residents (probably living in NY/CT/FL.) We arent providing SIPC/FDIC backstopping to the customers, since it aint our jurisdiction. We arent bailing them out, so far.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  FTX had two exchanges: FTX.us for US customers (with limited features), and FTX.com for the rest of the world.
marcosdumay 4y ago
The favorite pastime of politicians is creating regulations to make safer an environment where nobody follows regulations.
- oblio 4y ago
  This is provably wrong and it would take you 2 minutes to find out why. Yes, there are failures. But we have minimum wages, no child labor, protection against harassment, seat belts, fraud laws, etc, etc, all thanks to regulation. Regulation created by politicians.

alecco 4y ago

I bet it's going to be used to push CBDC.

SoftTalker 4y ago

Serious prison time for the executives involved would probably be more effective.

realist20222 4y ago
>> Serious prison time for the executives involved would probably be more effective. Top executives, especially well-connected ones never get prison time. Instead, you usually have Indian/Chinese scapegoats or someone equally disliked. The entire flash crash was blamed on a lone indian man living with his parents: https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-51265169 https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-51265169 Nevermind Citadel, 2Sigma, Jane Street, Goldman Sachs The 2008 scandal fell upon an Arab man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Serageldin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Serageldin He is notable for being the only banker in the United States to be sentenced to jail time as a result of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, a conviction resulting from mismarking bond prices to hide losses.[1][2] If I were this guy, i'd be really really worried about now: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/cryptocurrency/ftx-collapse-indian-origin-executive-nishad-singh-was-part-of-co-founders-inner-circle-that-ran-crypto-empire/articleshow/95491869.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/cryptocurrency/... Side note: If you work for a shady company, and you're the only colored guy on the exec team, you are probably there for a reason, and the reason isnt good.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Never say never. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Skilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Skilling
- spfzero 4y ago
  Bernie Madoff was a top executive, with great connections.
  - nullc 4y ago
    most of big beneficiaries of the Madoff scam e.g. Picower (found dead the the bottom of his pool) and including Madoff's children, were dead within a couple years after the collapse.