6 ms·

Ask HN: Better 1st person (My Photos) or 2nd (Your Photos)?

60 points by barredo 15y ago

In apps or web apps, in usability, UI and/or UX terms.

est 15y ago
It really depends, but whatever you choose, make it consistant.
weel 15y ago
This is a classic example of a question that can only really be answered with data. Generic studies are good, but nothing beats data you gather about your particular UI.
gerad 15y ago
All else being equal, use the shorter word.
- deepkut 15y ago
  I agree with gerad, use "My" -- it's shorter, cleaner, and appeals to the user more. "Your" creates distance between the app and the user, if one were all alone, "My" would still exist, but "Your" would not.
vaksel 15y ago
for a landing page where you tell them about the product, your. for actual app interface, my is better
jschuur 15y ago
If it's inherently private data, use first person. For shared/public stuff, use second person. 'Your passwords' sounds too much like someone else is talking about my confidential data.
- kes 15y ago
  Quoting cing: How about option 3: "Items" and "Photos"? Unless of course you have to differentiate between "Mine" and "Everyone Elses" Combine these two ideas, and I think you're starting to make sense.
cing 15y ago
How about option 3: "Items" and "Photos"? Unless of course you have to differentiate between "Mine" and "Everyone Elses"
- sapphirecat 15y ago
  Agreed. Users will be reading "My" every time they see it, so unless it's vital, leave it out. For example, Microsoft abandoned the "My" prefix in Vista for Documents, Pictures, etc. in the UI.
  - Lagged2Death 15y ago
    Microsoft abandoned the "My" prefix in Vista for Documents, Pictures, etc. in the UI. And then they brought it back in 7. I guess people complained. I agree that omitting the "My" or "Your" where possible is the right way to go. If the overall context of the web page or application doesn't make it clear whose items are in question, adding "My" isn't always going to help much, or at all. Consider Facebook, for example. Look at a friend's page. It probably has a "Photos" link. Would "My Photos" be clearer? Would "My Photos" refer to photos belonging to the logged-in user or photos belonging to the person depicted above the link? It's the context in which the "Photos" link appears that makes its purpose and meaning clear, and that is usually the case.
    - sapphirecat 15y ago
      > And then they brought it back in 7. Mea culpa. I haven't used 7 very much =) Speaking of context, though, I've also heard "don't use My" as a recommendation for mobile UIs, because they don't have that much space to spend on the word to begin with...
    - brudgers 15y ago
      "My x" typically sits under library x alongside "shared x" in Windows 7. So I am not sure that the vocabulary was complaint driven. Regarding Facebook, everything is shared to some degree so I am not sure it is an apt example.
    - 15y ago
Alex3917 15y ago
Never use second person for UI, it's alienating because it subconsciously tells people that they aren't a part of the group and they don't belong. Studies show that conversion rates are much lower when you talk to people in second person for this reason.
- benjamind 15y ago
  Do you have a reference for this? I'd love to see the stats.
brudgers 15y ago
The technically more descriptive "Private" and "Public," perhaps?
spking 15y ago
Once you've chosen "My" or "Your" it becomes a boobytrap you have to avoid in all your labels, navigation and copy. See: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1924102/my-account-or-your-account-labels http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1924102/my-account-or-you... The second most popular answer is the one I'd strive for.
po 15y ago
I'm really shocked about the differing opinions on this. I have always thought that the "my X" label triggers selfishness and suspicion in users, putting their guard up. I prefer "Your X" so that people feel like a team has been formed. They trust you with their data because they are entering information into your site. We're a team. I guess it is understandable that you might not have yet gained the user's trust but I feel like then they wouldn't be your user.
- pasbesoin 15y ago
  Qualification: This is based upon my personal experience and opinion but not on extensive work experience producing publicly published copy. For many people, it's going to feel/be more natural to write in the second person. Writing in the first person, when you are instructing someone else rather than describing yourself, takes more conscious effort. It's easy to forget and slip tenses. Also, and important, the resulting language/copy often ends up reading "stilted" -- it doesn't seem natural. Unless you have a particular impression in mind, and the skill to pull it off well, I'd consider going with second person. It will probably be quicker to write, and if you really need to switch to first person, you'll have pre-existing copy from which to start. P.S. I also tend to favor leaving such qualifiers off of labels, except when they clearly help distinguish an item.
allbutlost 15y ago
A good discussion arose on this question a while back - it might be worth checking out http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1714184 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1714184 and the original article that spawned the discussion -> http://weblog.muledesign.com/2010/06/unsuck_it_special_byebye_my.php http://weblog.muledesign.com/2010/06/unsuck_it_special_byeby... I tend to prefer using the 2nd person, if I have to choose one over the other. [edit] - Sorry, should also add the link to the Yahoo patterns article, which also recommends the 2nd person http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.html http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.htm....
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
MoreMoschops 15y ago
"My Computer" et al. sounded patronising and childlike when it started and continues to do so now. How about just "Items" and "Photos"? Unless there is something marked "Someone else's items" and "Someone else's photos", is it necessary to specify that they belong to the user?
- frou_dh 15y ago
  I actually create a "my" subdirectory in my home directory that I put all my stuff under (~/my/videos/ ~/my/dotfiles/ etc.) This is a reaction to being fed up with OSs and programs putting things in the predefined directories without asking.
DiabloD3 15y ago
Shouldn't this be a poll? And "your" is very accusation and confrontational. "My" rubs the ego the right way. So, my vote goes for "my". Have you considered just "Items" and "Photos"? If you end up splitting public/private, "My Public...", "My Private..." is a mouthful. This ultimately is an exercise in KISS imo.
buster 15y ago
I'd probably see the website as a third entity presenting stuff to me, so it's coming down to: Your = "I'm presenting you your photos which i just store for your convenience". My = "You've uploaded your private photos, now they are mine, dumbass!" Definitely "Your", in my oppinion.
access_denied 15y ago
It depends on the overall tonality you want the site to be written in. For instance Flikr is written in a different tonality than Picasa. The right tonality is part of what makes a design stick with a specific demographic.
lucianof 15y ago
I noticed that Google uses +You in English (as a plug for Google+ if you're not logged in) and +Ich (= +I) in German. Maybe they really just want a three letter word. Researching further: French: +Vous (polite 2nd person) Italian: +Tu (casual 2nd person) German seems to be the exception, Googl prefers 2nd person.
- chromedude 15y ago
  But then when you have Google+ they change it to +Name (example +Stephen)
- zerostar07 15y ago
  maybe "+Sie" would be confusable?
- _delirium 15y ago
  In Google Scholar, though, the link to your own Scholar page (if you've set one up and are logged in) is "My Citations" in English, so they seem to be using it inconsistently between products.
cpi 15y ago
I've actually been having a similar internal debate with an app I'm working on now, although for me it's between "My Whatever" and just "Whatever." Currently leaning towards "My." "Your Whatever" isn't even an option though... don't like it at all.
sgk284 15y ago
Yahoo's YUI has a whole write up on this in their design patterns: http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.html http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.htm... They explain why they've determined that "your" is best.
swah 15y ago
Also, if you want to buy an AK47 do you google for "buy ak47" or "sell ak47" ? Its the prisioners dillema!
asolove 15y ago
All you have to do is list out all the things you want to say, and the answer becomes clear: "My photos" v. "Your photos": both seem to work "We weren't able to complete your request" v. "Someone else wasn't able to complete my request." "Please enter your valid email address" v. "Please enter my valid email address" "To (...), you need to upgrade to a Pro Plan" v. "To (...), I need to upgrade to a Pro Plan." The user is the second person, because sometimes your app or company needs to speak to them using the first person.
Terretta 15y ago
If you're talking about labeling things that belong to the user, and your site or app is supposed to feel like the site or app itself belongs to the user (their space), go with what the user would label them. For photos, what would the user write on a shoebox of their own prints? Most likely “My Photos”, but they also could just “Photos” if nobody else's things are stored anywhere nearby. If the app or site does not belong to the user, but is clearly a third party the user gives things to in order to process them or perform some action on or with them, label it as a service person would speak to the user. How would the service person at Costco refer to those same prints? Probably “Your Photos” in contrast with "Everyone's Photos". In this case, the label "Photos" would be most likely to apply to all photos, not just the user's own. Going with conversational style, keeping in mind who is the speaker for a given action, goes a long way to clarifying which stories need which terms. This gets more complicated in "the cloud" but the same distinction (ownership vs operation, and who is the speaker for an action) can apply.

60 points by barredo 15y ago

In apps or web apps, in usability, UI and/or UX terms.

est 15y ago

It really depends, but whatever you choose, make it consistant.

weel 15y ago

This is a classic example of a question that can only really be answered with data. Generic studies are good, but nothing beats data you gather about your particular UI.

gerad 15y ago

All else being equal, use the shorter word.

deepkut 15y ago
I agree with gerad, use "My" -- it's shorter, cleaner, and appeals to the user more. "Your" creates distance between the app and the user, if one were all alone, "My" would still exist, but "Your" would not.

vaksel 15y ago

for a landing page where you tell them about the product, your. for actual app interface, my is better

jschuur 15y ago

If it's inherently private data, use first person. For shared/public stuff, use second person. 'Your passwords' sounds too much like someone else is talking about my confidential data.

kes 15y ago
Quoting cing: How about option 3: "Items" and "Photos"? Unless of course you have to differentiate between "Mine" and "Everyone Elses" Combine these two ideas, and I think you're starting to make sense.

cing 15y ago

How about option 3: "Items" and "Photos"? Unless of course you have to differentiate between "Mine" and "Everyone Elses"

sapphirecat 15y ago
Agreed. Users will be reading "My" every time they see it, so unless it's vital, leave it out. For example, Microsoft abandoned the "My" prefix in Vista for Documents, Pictures, etc. in the UI.
- Lagged2Death 15y ago
  Microsoft abandoned the "My" prefix in Vista for Documents, Pictures, etc. in the UI. And then they brought it back in 7. I guess people complained. I agree that omitting the "My" or "Your" where possible is the right way to go. If the overall context of the web page or application doesn't make it clear whose items are in question, adding "My" isn't always going to help much, or at all. Consider Facebook, for example. Look at a friend's page. It probably has a "Photos" link. Would "My Photos" be clearer? Would "My Photos" refer to photos belonging to the logged-in user or photos belonging to the person depicted above the link? It's the context in which the "Photos" link appears that makes its purpose and meaning clear, and that is usually the case.
  - sapphirecat 15y ago
    > And then they brought it back in 7. Mea culpa. I haven't used 7 very much =) Speaking of context, though, I've also heard "don't use My" as a recommendation for mobile UIs, because they don't have that much space to spend on the word to begin with...
  - brudgers 15y ago
    "My x" typically sits under library x alongside "shared x" in Windows 7. So I am not sure that the vocabulary was complaint driven. Regarding Facebook, everything is shared to some degree so I am not sure it is an apt example.
  - 15y ago

Alex3917 15y ago

Never use second person for UI, it's alienating because it subconsciously tells people that they aren't a part of the group and they don't belong. Studies show that conversion rates are much lower when you talk to people in second person for this reason.

benjamind 15y ago
Do you have a reference for this? I'd love to see the stats.

brudgers 15y ago

The technically more descriptive "Private" and "Public," perhaps?

spking 15y ago

Once you've chosen "My" or "Your" it becomes a boobytrap you have to avoid in all your labels, navigation and copy. See: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1924102/my-account-or-your-account-labels http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1924102/my-account-or-you... The second most popular answer is the one I'd strive for.

po 15y ago

I'm really shocked about the differing opinions on this. I have always thought that the "my X" label triggers selfishness and suspicion in users, putting their guard up. I prefer "Your X" so that people feel like a team has been formed. They trust you with their data because they are entering information into your site. We're a team. I guess it is understandable that you might not have yet gained the user's trust but I feel like then they wouldn't be your user.

pasbesoin 15y ago
Qualification: This is based upon my personal experience and opinion but not on extensive work experience producing publicly published copy. For many people, it's going to feel/be more natural to write in the second person. Writing in the first person, when you are instructing someone else rather than describing yourself, takes more conscious effort. It's easy to forget and slip tenses. Also, and important, the resulting language/copy often ends up reading "stilted" -- it doesn't seem natural. Unless you have a particular impression in mind, and the skill to pull it off well, I'd consider going with second person. It will probably be quicker to write, and if you really need to switch to first person, you'll have pre-existing copy from which to start. P.S. I also tend to favor leaving such qualifiers off of labels, except when they clearly help distinguish an item.

allbutlost 15y ago

A good discussion arose on this question a while back - it might be worth checking out http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1714184 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1714184 and the original article that spawned the discussion -> http://weblog.muledesign.com/2010/06/unsuck_it_special_byebye_my.php http://weblog.muledesign.com/2010/06/unsuck_it_special_byeby... I tend to prefer using the 2nd person, if I have to choose one over the other. [edit] - Sorry, should also add the link to the Yahoo patterns article, which also recommends the 2nd person http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.html http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.htm....

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

MoreMoschops 15y ago

"My Computer" et al. sounded patronising and childlike when it started and continues to do so now. How about just "Items" and "Photos"? Unless there is something marked "Someone else's items" and "Someone else's photos", is it necessary to specify that they belong to the user?

frou_dh 15y ago
I actually create a "my" subdirectory in my home directory that I put all my stuff under (~/my/videos/ ~/my/dotfiles/ etc.) This is a reaction to being fed up with OSs and programs putting things in the predefined directories without asking.

DiabloD3 15y ago

Shouldn't this be a poll? And "your" is very accusation and confrontational. "My" rubs the ego the right way. So, my vote goes for "my". Have you considered just "Items" and "Photos"? If you end up splitting public/private, "My Public...", "My Private..." is a mouthful. This ultimately is an exercise in KISS imo.

buster 15y ago

I'd probably see the website as a third entity presenting stuff to me, so it's coming down to: Your = "I'm presenting you your photos which i just store for your convenience". My = "You've uploaded your private photos, now they are mine, dumbass!" Definitely "Your", in my oppinion.

access_denied 15y ago

It depends on the overall tonality you want the site to be written in. For instance Flikr is written in a different tonality than Picasa. The right tonality is part of what makes a design stick with a specific demographic.

lucianof 15y ago

I noticed that Google uses +You in English (as a plug for Google+ if you're not logged in) and +Ich (= +I) in German. Maybe they really just want a three letter word. Researching further: French: +Vous (polite 2nd person) Italian: +Tu (casual 2nd person) German seems to be the exception, Googl prefers 2nd person.

chromedude 15y ago
But then when you have Google+ they change it to +Name (example +Stephen)
zerostar07 15y ago
maybe "+Sie" would be confusable?
_delirium 15y ago
In Google Scholar, though, the link to your own Scholar page (if you've set one up and are logged in) is "My Citations" in English, so they seem to be using it inconsistently between products.

cpi 15y ago

I've actually been having a similar internal debate with an app I'm working on now, although for me it's between "My Whatever" and just "Whatever." Currently leaning towards "My." "Your Whatever" isn't even an option though... don't like it at all.

sgk284 15y ago

Yahoo's YUI has a whole write up on this in their design patterns: http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.html http://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/social/core/yourvmy.htm... They explain why they've determined that "your" is best.

swah 15y ago

Also, if you want to buy an AK47 do you google for "buy ak47" or "sell ak47" ? Its the prisioners dillema!

asolove 15y ago

All you have to do is list out all the things you want to say, and the answer becomes clear: "My photos" v. "Your photos": both seem to work "We weren't able to complete your request" v. "Someone else wasn't able to complete my request." "Please enter your valid email address" v. "Please enter my valid email address" "To (...), you need to upgrade to a Pro Plan" v. "To (...), I need to upgrade to a Pro Plan." The user is the second person, because sometimes your app or company needs to speak to them using the first person.

Terretta 15y ago

If you're talking about labeling things that belong to the user, and your site or app is supposed to feel like the site or app itself belongs to the user (their space), go with what the user would label them. For photos, what would the user write on a shoebox of their own prints? Most likely “My Photos”, but they also could just “Photos” if nobody else's things are stored anywhere nearby. If the app or site does not belong to the user, but is clearly a third party the user gives things to in order to process them or perform some action on or with them, label it as a service person would speak to the user. How would the service person at Costco refer to those same prints? Probably “Your Photos” in contrast with "Everyone's Photos". In this case, the label "Photos" would be most likely to apply to all photos, not just the user's own. Going with conversational style, keeping in mind who is the speaker for a given action, goes a long way to clarifying which stories need which terms. This gets more complicated in "the cloud" but the same distinction (ownership vs operation, and who is the speaker for an action) can apply.