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Sorry but the points are totally valid. If you delete your account your messages are still available with a userid that if someone has it can be traced back to

Sorry but the points are totally valid. If you delete your account your messages are still available with a userid that if someone has it can be traced back to you. They also don't delete files or pictures you uploaded alone for this they should get fined.

izzydata 4y ago
Not only should they get fined. They should also fix the problem.
- pimterry 4y ago
  Yep, that's typically how this works - there's a small immediate fine for the current issues, but there'll be rapidly increasing fines in future if the issues continue beyond a reasonable timeframe to get this fixed.
- maeln 4y ago
  They did. The CNIL did several control and verified that they indeed fixed the issues.
Spivak 4y ago
But it’s a chat application, those messages aren’t owned by just the user that authored them. Even if a user deletes their account I should be able to go back in my chat history and find their messages and know it was them. It would be stupid if someone closing their cellular account would somehow reach into my phone and delete their contact, their messages, and replace their phone number with all zeros and this is semantically the same, the implementation shouldn’t matter. If you send a message to a group chat those messages are now owned collectively by the group and individually by each member, the gpdr is forcing companies to delete my data because someone else asked to delete theirs.
- lzooz 4y ago
  I agree with you in principle and I think that the EU is basically extorting American companies, but in your example all that information is stored in your phone, while in this case the information is stored in Discord's servers.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Right which to me is a distinction without a difference. If you and me are both Gmail users and you send me an email then delete your account should Gmail have to reach into my inbox and delete your emails? They’re on Google’s servers after all.
    - Tainnor 4y ago
      There is definitely a difference between PII data of different users being distributed rather randomly across personal devices vs. it being consolidated within a single company which can then proceed to use that data for all sorts of purposes you may or may not have agreed to.
    - daveoc64 4y ago
      It's about technical capability. In this case, Discord is a very centralised service. They store all of the messages centrally, so can easily comply with the request. Other services like email may not be able to do that, so they could use that as a defence when asked why they aren't deleting all data.
    - falcor84 4y ago
      There's a spectrum of things I can share with you over gmail. Currently, if I share an email with some formatted text and attachments up to 25MB, then it's yours to keep, but anything above 25MB is shared as a link to a Google Drive upload, which remains under my account, and I can always delete or modify. But I don't see any particular reason for where exactly the line between the two should be - why wouldn't it be that I could make anything I shared with you ephemeral, a-la Snapchat? And going back to email, it was actually MS Exchange who have supported the option to "Recall this message" [0] for many years, while gmail decided to not implement anything like that. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace-an-email-message-that-you-sent-35027f88-d655-4554-b4f8-6c0729a723a0 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace...
- viccuad 4y ago
  if they want it to work as you posit, they should not save all the date in Discords systems, but create a distributed chat system.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    What’s the difference between Discord and two Gmail users communicating? The data is all on Google’s servers. If we work on a Google Doc together should deleting your account delete my document as well? They’re both on Google’s servers and on the backend we don’t have separate copies.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- falcor84 4y ago
  I would say there's a real semantic difference between whether those files are stored and managed on your device, or on the provider's servers. If they're only on your device, have fun with them, but they are not allowed to store or touch data that I (as the sender) have instructed them to delete.
judge2020 4y ago
I think they ended up fixing this, all the deleted users I can find resolve to UID 456226577798135808. Although, messages that used to @mention the user don't have their UID mangled (since @mentions are really `<@userid>`), so it'd be easy to correlate someone @pinging a deleted user and that deleted user responding to the ping. Seems like fixing this would be pretty challenging (logistically and computationally) given you'd have to arbitrarily edit other peoples' messages.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anticensor 4y ago
  Mentions are also listed in the message metadata, in the allowed_mentions field, therefore it should be very easy for Discord to strip mentions of deleted users' IDs.
baxtr 4y ago
In any case, 800k is a ridiculous amount for such a huge company like Discord.
- psychoslave 4y ago
  Where do you find their revenue stream data?
- nells 4y ago
  They’ve probably never made any money.
  - xphx 4y ago
    "in August 2021, Discord had reported $130 million in 2020 revenues, triple from the prior year, and had an estimated valuation of $15 billion" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord#History
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      There's no evidence in that sentence that they have made a dime.
      - kornhole 4y ago
        The company may not have recorded any profit, but the founders and other equity holders can leverage or sell that equity worth $15B.
    - ehutch79 4y ago
      Revenue is not profit. You need to subtract expenses and whatnot.
      - baxtr 4y ago
        That’s right. But for GDPR no one cares about profits. They need to be fined on revenue. Otherwise non-profit making companies could do any privacy BS and not be fined.
namdnay 4y ago
isn't that the case for gmail? if you send me an email with a picture in it, then delete your email account, i can still see your email when logging into my gmail
- theCrowing 4y ago
  It's the case for slack, insta, Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, bereal, TikTok and snap. I am not talking about pms but public posts.
- nabla9 4y ago
  No. Email is private messaging. If you send email to me and then delete it in your end, I'm allowed to store your email as a whole (sometimes legally obliged).
  - namdnay 4y ago
    And if I send an email to 200 recipients they can all store it, I don’t see the fundamental difference for discord TBH
    - mbreese 4y ago
      You can save a screenshot discord chat too. There’s nothing wrong with that. If someone published something and you want to save a copy for personal purposes, go ahead. The difference is in what Discord’s responsibility is. If Discord claimed to have deleted an account, then they shouldn’t still be publishing a post from a user. Especially if such a post could still be tied back to the historical user id. I can understand why they’d want to keep the data (sometimes you need to keep an archive of posts for legal reasons - for a limited time). But making an archived post visible to the public is the problem.
      - ignormies 4y ago
        An even better analogy would be a mailing list, instead of directly emailing/cc-ing recipients. Definitively not "private messaging". If I delete my email account, and/or remove it from the list, there's no expectation that my prior emails are deleted for any of the other list subscribers. The mailing list archive isn't pruned of my account and everything I ever sent will still be visible.
blodkorv 4y ago
I think i read somewhere that they do delete files and images after some time.
radicalbyte 4y ago
How does this work for IRC networks?
- bathtub365 4y ago
  IRC networks don’t generally store messages and your client only receives messages that are sent while connected to the network. Users can set up their own infrastructure to store messages received by their client, though, so you never know who might be collecting logs.
  - jokoon 4y ago
    So I think you could get sued for hosting logs, or you must provide a way to delete data per request.
- mmis1000 4y ago
  IRC network is simply a relay. It doesn't have anything to delete begin with.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    I'm sure most sizable IRC networks have some level of logging if only to validate claims of spam or rule-breaking.
    - mmis1000 4y ago
      Even with that. It's anonymous if you don't login. All you do is pick a name you like, type something random and exit. And all they have is an ip address that may change at anytime. I am not sure if GDPR should apply if that can't be used to trace back to you at first place. And if this should apply. I think everyone on the earth that connect to internet are probably in danger. You visit my site and leave a message. And I am suddenly a target of GDPR, what? Also, do GDPR actually care about internally logs? I think the requirement is the data on that platform can no longer be used to trace back to the user. But logs aren't even exposed to users.
devwastaken 4y ago
Discord is a massive data store. They hoard messages. The only reason for this is to someday sell it. It doesn't matter what the CEO says, it's the investors that own it. They either have to become profitable, or sell.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

izzydata 4y ago

Not only should they get fined. They should also fix the problem.

pimterry 4y ago
Yep, that's typically how this works - there's a small immediate fine for the current issues, but there'll be rapidly increasing fines in future if the issues continue beyond a reasonable timeframe to get this fixed.
maeln 4y ago
They did. The CNIL did several control and verified that they indeed fixed the issues.

Spivak 4y ago

But it’s a chat application, those messages aren’t owned by just the user that authored them. Even if a user deletes their account I should be able to go back in my chat history and find their messages and know it was them. It would be stupid if someone closing their cellular account would somehow reach into my phone and delete their contact, their messages, and replace their phone number with all zeros and this is semantically the same, the implementation shouldn’t matter. If you send a message to a group chat those messages are now owned collectively by the group and individually by each member, the gpdr is forcing companies to delete my data because someone else asked to delete theirs.

lzooz 4y ago
I agree with you in principle and I think that the EU is basically extorting American companies, but in your example all that information is stored in your phone, while in this case the information is stored in Discord's servers.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Right which to me is a distinction without a difference. If you and me are both Gmail users and you send me an email then delete your account should Gmail have to reach into my inbox and delete your emails? They’re on Google’s servers after all.
  - Tainnor 4y ago
    There is definitely a difference between PII data of different users being distributed rather randomly across personal devices vs. it being consolidated within a single company which can then proceed to use that data for all sorts of purposes you may or may not have agreed to.
  - daveoc64 4y ago
    It's about technical capability. In this case, Discord is a very centralised service. They store all of the messages centrally, so can easily comply with the request. Other services like email may not be able to do that, so they could use that as a defence when asked why they aren't deleting all data.
  - falcor84 4y ago
    There's a spectrum of things I can share with you over gmail. Currently, if I share an email with some formatted text and attachments up to 25MB, then it's yours to keep, but anything above 25MB is shared as a link to a Google Drive upload, which remains under my account, and I can always delete or modify. But I don't see any particular reason for where exactly the line between the two should be - why wouldn't it be that I could make anything I shared with you ephemeral, a-la Snapchat? And going back to email, it was actually MS Exchange who have supported the option to "Recall this message" [0] for many years, while gmail decided to not implement anything like that. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace-an-email-message-that-you-sent-35027f88-d655-4554-b4f8-6c0729a723a0 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace...
viccuad 4y ago
if they want it to work as you posit, they should not save all the date in Discords systems, but create a distributed chat system.
- Spivak 4y ago
  What’s the difference between Discord and two Gmail users communicating? The data is all on Google’s servers. If we work on a Google Doc together should deleting your account delete my document as well? They’re both on Google’s servers and on the backend we don’t have separate copies.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
falcor84 4y ago
I would say there's a real semantic difference between whether those files are stored and managed on your device, or on the provider's servers. If they're only on your device, have fun with them, but they are not allowed to store or touch data that I (as the sender) have instructed them to delete.

judge2020 4y ago

I think they ended up fixing this, all the deleted users I can find resolve to UID 456226577798135808. Although, messages that used to @mention the user don't have their UID mangled (since @mentions are really `<@userid>`), so it'd be easy to correlate someone @pinging a deleted user and that deleted user responding to the ping. Seems like fixing this would be pretty challenging (logistically and computationally) given you'd have to arbitrarily edit other peoples' messages.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anticensor 4y ago
Mentions are also listed in the message metadata, in the allowed_mentions field, therefore it should be very easy for Discord to strip mentions of deleted users' IDs.

baxtr 4y ago

In any case, 800k is a ridiculous amount for such a huge company like Discord.

psychoslave 4y ago
Where do you find their revenue stream data?
nells 4y ago
They’ve probably never made any money.
- xphx 4y ago
  "in August 2021, Discord had reported $130 million in 2020 revenues, triple from the prior year, and had an estimated valuation of $15 billion" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord#History
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    There's no evidence in that sentence that they have made a dime.
    - kornhole 4y ago
      The company may not have recorded any profit, but the founders and other equity holders can leverage or sell that equity worth $15B.
  - ehutch79 4y ago
    Revenue is not profit. You need to subtract expenses and whatnot.
    - baxtr 4y ago
      That’s right. But for GDPR no one cares about profits. They need to be fined on revenue. Otherwise non-profit making companies could do any privacy BS and not be fined.

namdnay 4y ago

isn't that the case for gmail? if you send me an email with a picture in it, then delete your email account, i can still see your email when logging into my gmail

theCrowing 4y ago
It's the case for slack, insta, Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, bereal, TikTok and snap. I am not talking about pms but public posts.
nabla9 4y ago
No. Email is private messaging. If you send email to me and then delete it in your end, I'm allowed to store your email as a whole (sometimes legally obliged).
- namdnay 4y ago
  And if I send an email to 200 recipients they can all store it, I don’t see the fundamental difference for discord TBH
  - mbreese 4y ago
    You can save a screenshot discord chat too. There’s nothing wrong with that. If someone published something and you want to save a copy for personal purposes, go ahead. The difference is in what Discord’s responsibility is. If Discord claimed to have deleted an account, then they shouldn’t still be publishing a post from a user. Especially if such a post could still be tied back to the historical user id. I can understand why they’d want to keep the data (sometimes you need to keep an archive of posts for legal reasons - for a limited time). But making an archived post visible to the public is the problem.
    - ignormies 4y ago
      An even better analogy would be a mailing list, instead of directly emailing/cc-ing recipients. Definitively not "private messaging". If I delete my email account, and/or remove it from the list, there's no expectation that my prior emails are deleted for any of the other list subscribers. The mailing list archive isn't pruned of my account and everything I ever sent will still be visible.

blodkorv 4y ago

I think i read somewhere that they do delete files and images after some time.

radicalbyte 4y ago

How does this work for IRC networks?

bathtub365 4y ago
IRC networks don’t generally store messages and your client only receives messages that are sent while connected to the network. Users can set up their own infrastructure to store messages received by their client, though, so you never know who might be collecting logs.
- jokoon 4y ago
  So I think you could get sued for hosting logs, or you must provide a way to delete data per request.
mmis1000 4y ago
IRC network is simply a relay. It doesn't have anything to delete begin with.
- judge2020 4y ago
  I'm sure most sizable IRC networks have some level of logging if only to validate claims of spam or rule-breaking.
  - mmis1000 4y ago
    Even with that. It's anonymous if you don't login. All you do is pick a name you like, type something random and exit. And all they have is an ip address that may change at anytime. I am not sure if GDPR should apply if that can't be used to trace back to you at first place. And if this should apply. I think everyone on the earth that connect to internet are probably in danger. You visit my site and leave a message. And I am suddenly a target of GDPR, what? Also, do GDPR actually care about internally logs? I think the requirement is the data on that platform can no longer be used to trace back to the user. But logs aren't even exposed to users.

devwastaken 4y ago

Discord is a massive data store. They hoard messages. The only reason for this is to someday sell it. It doesn't matter what the CEO says, it's the investors that own it. They either have to become profitable, or sell.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]