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> I still believe that suicide should never be the option and people that are considering it should really seek professional psychological help. It is weird to

> I still believe that suicide should never be the option and people that are considering it should really seek professional psychological help. It is weird to me that our society is so fixated on autonomy, self-sufficiency, bootstrapping, competition, and exploitation right up until someone has the desire to exit the whole thing. At that point they get just enough interest from others to keep them alive so they can continue feeding the sick system.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
When you die, you include many people in the aftermath whether you want to or not. Doctors suffer from ethical qualms if they are forced by law to end the life of a depressed person.
- smodo 4y ago
  This is why they aren't forced in any euthanasia cases I've heard of. Has this ever actually happened outside of totalitarian regimes? Genuine question.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/doctor-netherlands-asked-family-hold-down-euthanasia-patient https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/doctor-netherl... In the EU, yes. People changing their mind (crazy or otherwise) being forced to die by ‘polite’ society.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Status quo bias. You affect people while you're living too.
- sdflhasjd 4y ago
  "Keep dancing, otherwise you'll let everyone down" is not an exactly an encouragement.
- tester89 4y ago
  > When you die, you include many people in the aftermath whether you want to or not. I mean one can similarly cause them pain by just leaving them. There’s no obligation to stay in relationships with people because the counterfactual would be painful, I don’t see why there should be an obligation to live simply because it would be painful for others.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Everyone is always capable of stopping eating.
- aussieshibe 4y ago
  Is that an argument against voluntary euthanasia though? My parents have both told me they would sooner die than go to a nursing home. Knowing them, I believe both that they mean it and that they would be utterly miserable in a nursing home. Obviously I would be distraught if it came to that, but how selfish would I have to be to tell them "no, you must go to this place that you'll hate because of the impact it will have on me if you die"? I certainly think there should be controls. A waiting period, mandatory psych checkup to validate rationality and sound mind. If those (quite low) bars are cleared though, I don't see any reason that people shouldn't be able to choose to die. To your second point, doctors don't necessarily need to be the vendors of legalised euthanasia. A rheumatologist friend of mine once expressed that he is generally supportive of the idea of voluntary euthanasia, but believes this should involve creating some kind of "assisted dying professional" role. Asking doctors to euthanize people creates (as he put it) a kind of conflict of interest; the person who is there to help you live should not be the same person who can, if you choose, help you die.
LoveMortuus 4y ago
There are other ways to "exit the whole thing" besides death.
- feet 4y ago
  What other ways are those?
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    Relocate?
    - feet 4y ago
      How much does it cost to relocate? More than housing? Also, going to another city isn't somehow escaping the system we all live in
      - ashwagary 4y ago
        Another country could be cheaper.
        feet 4y ago
        And how would they get there if they can't afford housing in their area. You think they have money to move to another country? Do you know how expensive that is?
        ashwagary 4y ago
        Toronto has a high cost of living compared to the rest of the world. Hotels there can easily cost thousands of dollars per week. A plane ticket is probably one of the more expensive parts of relocating. If suicide has already been contemplated, the person also has the ability to let go of the vast majority of their possessions and condense their must-haves down to 1-2 suitcases. It seems a bit goofy to me that a person with budgetary constraints in need of fresh air is trying to find a solution in the middle of one of the mostly densely populated and polluted cities in Canada. Manufactured problem?

mensetmanusman 4y ago

When you die, you include many people in the aftermath whether you want to or not. Doctors suffer from ethical qualms if they are forced by law to end the life of a depressed person.

smodo 4y ago
This is why they aren't forced in any euthanasia cases I've heard of. Has this ever actually happened outside of totalitarian regimes? Genuine question.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/doctor-netherlands-asked-family-hold-down-euthanasia-patient https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/doctor-netherl... In the EU, yes. People changing their mind (crazy or otherwise) being forced to die by ‘polite’ society.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
Status quo bias. You affect people while you're living too.
sdflhasjd 4y ago
"Keep dancing, otherwise you'll let everyone down" is not an exactly an encouragement.
tester89 4y ago
> When you die, you include many people in the aftermath whether you want to or not. I mean one can similarly cause them pain by just leaving them. There’s no obligation to stay in relationships with people because the counterfactual would be painful, I don’t see why there should be an obligation to live simply because it would be painful for others.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Everyone is always capable of stopping eating.
aussieshibe 4y ago
Is that an argument against voluntary euthanasia though? My parents have both told me they would sooner die than go to a nursing home. Knowing them, I believe both that they mean it and that they would be utterly miserable in a nursing home. Obviously I would be distraught if it came to that, but how selfish would I have to be to tell them "no, you must go to this place that you'll hate because of the impact it will have on me if you die"? I certainly think there should be controls. A waiting period, mandatory psych checkup to validate rationality and sound mind. If those (quite low) bars are cleared though, I don't see any reason that people shouldn't be able to choose to die. To your second point, doctors don't necessarily need to be the vendors of legalised euthanasia. A rheumatologist friend of mine once expressed that he is generally supportive of the idea of voluntary euthanasia, but believes this should involve creating some kind of "assisted dying professional" role. Asking doctors to euthanize people creates (as he put it) a kind of conflict of interest; the person who is there to help you live should not be the same person who can, if you choose, help you die.

LoveMortuus 4y ago

There are other ways to "exit the whole thing" besides death.

feet 4y ago
What other ways are those?
- ashwagary 4y ago
  Relocate?
  - feet 4y ago
    How much does it cost to relocate? More than housing? Also, going to another city isn't somehow escaping the system we all live in
    - ashwagary 4y ago
      Another country could be cheaper.
      - feet 4y ago
        And how would they get there if they can't afford housing in their area. You think they have money to move to another country? Do you know how expensive that is?
        ashwagary 4y ago
        Toronto has a high cost of living compared to the rest of the world. Hotels there can easily cost thousands of dollars per week. A plane ticket is probably one of the more expensive parts of relocating. If suicide has already been contemplated, the person also has the ability to let go of the vast majority of their possessions and condense their must-haves down to 1-2 suitcases. It seems a bit goofy to me that a person with budgetary constraints in need of fresh air is trying to find a solution in the middle of one of the mostly densely populated and polluted cities in Canada. Manufactured problem?