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> The consciousness is not some magical force that enters us but just a giant bag of tricks that our brain plays. That's kind of a straw man of what Dennett's
by goatlover 4y ago
> The consciousness is not some magical force that enters us but just a giant bag of tricks that our brain plays.
That's kind of a straw man of what Dennett's opponents argue. No philosopher seriously says that consciousness is a magical force entering the brain. Rather, they make arguments that materialism (physicalism) fails to account for consciousness, whatever that entails for metaphysics or epistemology. Some are naturalists, but not physicalists. Some are idealists. Some like David Chalmers propose a kind of property dualism. Others might be neutral monists or think we're cognitively closed to the solution. Or panpsychists were everything has a bit of consciousness.
Materialism is a metaphysical assumption. We don't know the truth of what reality fundamentally is (it could be a simulation for all we know). We also don't know how to bridge the subjective/objective divide, as Thomas Nagel has argued. Another way of framing the argument is that the objective world is an abstraction across many subjective experiences, where consciousness is abstracted in favor of mathematical forms. That works well for describing/predicting patterns in nature we observe, including the brain, but then when you turn it around to explain the mind, it runs into difficulties, since the abstracted-away subjectivity has been left out.
There's no need to muddy the waters with the word "magic". We don't know everything, and some things we might never know. We do know that we have experiences of color, sound, taste, smells, feels, dreams, inner dialog and what not. That's not magic, it's just how we experience being in the world, whatever the world and our experiences are.
Here's a view opposing Dennett's from Jaron Lanier: http://www.jaronlanier.com/zombie.html http://www.jaronlanier.com/zombie.html
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- sitkack 4y agoI love philosophy for the fun discussion, but when folks say there is more than Physics to something when we know so little about everything. Yes it could be true, but coming from someone who is already so unskilled in the sciences, they have no real basis to make those claims. It is like someone making conjectures about the properties of prime numbers while knowing almost no mathematics.
- goatlover 4y agoNo different than claiming everything can be explained by physics. The basic argument against that for consciousness is that you don't get sensation (colors, tastes, feels) from physical properties, because they lack those sensations. Physical meaning our science of how the world works, which is abstract and mathematical, and not the world itself, to avoid metaphysical assumptions/circularity.
- sitkack 4y ago> consciousness is that you don't get sensation (colors, tastes, feels) from physical properties There is no unexplained magic here, are you saying human experience of the world breaks cause and effect? Color is our interpretation of the frequency of light, taste the chemical composition, if by feel you mean touch, our skin can resolve nm scale bumps. To say something is un-explainable is a cop out. Esp for the folks that say, "there has to be more" without showing why is unscientific.