27 ms·

My ADHD founder toolbox

456 points by luu 4y ago

chrisjc 4y ago
Still making my way through this article so kinda writing this as it seems relevant. I guess the following is as much for me as anyone reading. > Regarding the long-range management of ADHD, it is important to point out that the relapse rate for ADHD is 100%. What I think is maybe related to what is discussed about CBT... In the past I've relied on being able to set aside large spans of time to either get things done, allow myself time to be mindless (mindfulness?), organize things, etc before the interruptions started. This worked fantastically as I was up at 4-6 am every weekday (father duties at the weekend), reading, learning, working, writing, etc, before the slack messages, meetings, email started rolling in. I guess I had a similar system long ago when I was single, staying up all night till the crack of dawn reading, writing, but mostly wasting time on the internet. That wasn't feasible with a family so I somehow managed to push everything over to the other side of my sleep schedule, despite NEVER being a morning person. It was tough, but I made it work and things got better. It still took me forever to do the most basic things, but at least I had more uninterrupted time to get them done. I feel like I had found a coping strategy for my ADHD. Recently, everything came crashing down when my routine was disrupted by having to get my daughter up, ready and dropped off at school. I was able to figure out a way to split this responsibility to half of the week, but that's since become my whole responsibility. I also have to pick her up from school (50% of the time), make dinner, clean up, etc... I also put her to be every night. By the time that's all done and I've taken care of my own needs it's basically time to get to bed. Now I've fallen so far behind at work, no time for professional or personal learning, no organizing, etc... Additionally my marriage is in a state that I could never have imagined (although this was on its way to happening either way). Now I think I'm battling some depression, anxiety, sleep deprivation... all of this obviously just makes everything even worse. What I now recognize is that I became far too dependent on the luxury of having large spans of uninterrupted personal time. This is great while it lasts, but for some like me, not guaranteed. Instead, I've begun to rely on small increments of time and effort, and I think that some of these CBT techniques and the overall framework might help. > This harkens back to our notion that CBT for adult ADHD provides a framework for understanding how dif- ficulties arise as well as companion coping strategies with which to make changes It's tough, but I think it's the only way I'm going to survive. Btw, I am in therapy and have medicine, and despite all of this I am a happy individual and still love life. > I also went from taking nothing on weekends to taking half my weekday dose. My life on the weekend doesn’t need as much executive function, but it doesn’t not need any One thing that wasn't immediately apparent to me was that my ADHD isn't restricted to work hours. I need to be able to focus on my family, friends and self as much as whatever I'm trying to get done at work. I too felt shameful about being on medicine, but come to realize that neurotypicals just don't understand the effects and benefits of some of these medications. I'll prob add more if i can find some time to come back to the article and this thread. FYI, recently diagnosed with ADHD in my forties. I've been unknowingly dealing with ADHD all my life. It explains so many issues that I've been dealing with since I can remember. It's hard not to feel some kind of resentment and anger about why no one noticed long ago. In many ways I feel like someone has just woken me up from a 40 year slumber, like an adult that didn't listen during school and has to go back and learn everything from scratch. Whenever I heard about people with ADHD I always imagined they had some kind of focusing superpower. Fuck ADHD, I feel like it's trying to ruin my life.
znpy 4y ago
i've been putting off reading this, and the comments.
ttcbj 4y ago
I saw the guy who founded kinkos speak at Babson business school about 20 years ago. Weirdly, he was there due to some sponsorship related to disabilities because he had ADHD. He got up and in the first 30 seconds said he thought ADHD had helped him, didn’t think of it as a negative, and just came because he wanted to tell his story. Like so many founders (esp of retail businesses, I find), he was super charismatic and had a very practical, easy to understand model of the business. It was the best talk I saw in my brief time at babson, and I saw a bunch of good talks by founders. I believe the guy who founded jet blue also has ADHD and feels similarly. Everyone has their own perspective, but if you get a chance to see the Kinkos founder speak, I recommend it (he might be pretty old by now).
- triggercut 4y ago
  > Weirdly, he was there due to some sponsorship related to disabilities because he had ADHD. Can I ask why you find that weird? ADHD is, and is also comorbid with other learning disabilities. ADHD has so many dimensions and interrelationships between those dimensions that everybody's lived experience is different. If you know one person with ADHD, then you know one person with ADHD, you don't know everyone with ADHD. Heck my best friend growing up had severe ADHD, what used to be called "ring-of-fire". Both his parents are clinical experts in ADHD, and have been since he was young. Yet despite knowing me incredibly well over a couple of decades none of them suspected that I had it. To be fair, three psychiatrists and dozens of psychologists missed it too, until one had a hunch that finally led to me getting diagnosed in my late 30s.
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    I feel the ADHD is a strength not weakness mentality is generally harmful. There are some aspects of it that can help, especially when you are not deep working on one thing, but in general, I think it is unequivocally not a benefit to almost anyone who has it. edit: I would add there is some survivorship bias to it too. Successful CEO says ADHD helped? Huh. Cool. There is a reason alcoholism and substance abuse have significant overlap with ADHD communities. For example, I built and sold an infosec consulting firm and I have ADHD. I could tell you stories about how in some limited circumstances operating a business it helped. But that ignores all the times I struggled and had to dig deep into my well of ADHD management skills to stay focused and efficient on chores I don’t like doing.
nyanpasu64 4y ago
I tried signing up for Inflow, but noped out when it asked to fill out survey questions and supply an email address.
- klysm 4y ago
  How do you expect to go about the modern internet without supplying an email address to sign up for something?
  - firecall 4y ago
    It's more than that... It's not even clear what you are signing up for, and they start asking a bunch of personal questions... My ADHD brain noped out of there in an overwhelmed browser closing act of defiance! :-)
- thesausageking 4y ago
  Same. It's like it was designed specifically to make it hard for ADHDers to sign up. Little information about the service or what I'm signing up for or what it costs, the "get started" button opens a new tab on a different site, etc. I bookmarked it with the intention to go back. However, I know realistically I won't.
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    It's a weirdly designed funnel. I somehow ended up going through part of it twice (second time in the app). I have email scolding me for attempting to sign up with an address that already had an account. Not the craziest designed-by-marketing thing I've seen, but up there. But hey, it's not like I'm looking to them for UX advice.
    - thesausageking 4y ago
      What happens at the end of it funnel? What exactly is the app? And how much is it?
triggercut 4y ago
>"Highly recommend not yelling at yourself constantly." In Australia we call this "Living the dream".
vbad 4y ago
> After meeting the founders last summer during their YC batch, I’ve been pretty consistently using the app InFlow, which I described to a friend as “super chill easy cognitive behavioural skill-building around ADHD.” I feel like I’ve made real progress using it. This blog post reads like an advertisement for InFlow (YC S21), which was roundly criticized for being exploitative of people with ADHD, when it was posted to HN last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28877003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28877003 [Edit: the author has clarified below that this wasn't actually an advertisement, she just enjoyed the app. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions and overreacting and ranting about it. My apologies for writing all the bullshit above and below.]
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  Yeah, I switched off the moment I saw their first recommendation was a $50 a month app.
- 972811 4y ago
  I don’t really agree. The author mentions many books, methods, and apps and that just happens to be the first.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- falcolas 4y ago
  They mention it once... and cover a lot of other things. So while I agree with the linked threads, this doesn't really read as an ad for InFlow any more than it reads as an ad for CBT or Intuniv. My impression.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - vbad 4y ago
    The author mentions it right after the introduction, with no criticism whatsoever, only praise. Unlike the rest of the piece which is more balanced. It certainly set the advertisement alarm bells ringing in my mind.
xwowsersx 4y ago
Has anyone here used InFlow (the app mentioned in the article)? Curious to hear your experiences if you have.
- grhappl 4y ago
  I noped out as soon as I saw it wanted a yearly subscription to activate a week-long 'free' trial. I didn't trust myself to remember to cancel it in time and was disgusted at them weaponizing this dark pattern against ADHDers, so that was it for me. If you go to the Play Store and search for the one-star reviews there are loads of people saying the same. And also for those that did try it, that it's mostly useless anyway.
  - xwowsersx 4y ago
    Yikes, yeah that's not good
  - FL410 4y ago
    Pro-tip, at least on Apple devices: "buy" the trial, then immediately cancel it in your subscriptions. You'll still have access to it for whatever the trial period is, then it'll just stop working (vs. bill you).
    - hypatiadotca 4y ago
      This is the real ADHD MVP tip
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    Same. And the form to "personalize" your experience is a dark pattern to lead you to commit to this. It's used by the porn and gambling industries to increase conversation and I wouldn't trust a healthcare company using it.
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
I diagnosed when I was like... 8 years old. From then to 17 I was on various meds, finally gave them all up. So for about 22 years I've coped with ADHD without meds. I am a Staff Engineer and make a good living, respected in my field. Regardless of anything else, I think the key thing to remember about ADHD is that you do not need to be a high-performing human being, at all, in life. You will forget things and get distracted and not get as much done. So what. You are still intelligent and caring and dedicated and responsible and a hard worker. You probably put more effort in (when you get around to it) than many others without the condition. And you will do about as well as everyone else, on average. And this is fine. Do not put pressure on yourself to live up to what someone else can do. Only do what you can do, in your time, and be at peace.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  Similar case here. In rational circles a study (or studies) came around showing that learning outcomes between the medicated and unmedicated are roughly the same even if testing performance is better on medication. Since I improved my sleep (and lowered distractions), I've had no issues performing or focusing as needed, at least as much as the next guy. I think the meds are a double-edged sword, and the compromise may be more appropriate for some than others. I also think even more strongly that despite real cases, ADHD medication is overprescribed in the West. If school was boring and I'm a daydreamer, do I need to be "corrected"?
- just3ws 4y ago
  Thanks, I really needed to be reminded of that this morning. I've been beating myself up over the same types of thinking and it can be hard sometimes.
- darksaints 4y ago
  I had dropped out of college three times, spent a short stint homeless, and had nothing but tumultuous relationships before I was diagnosed with ADHD and started medication. Now I can live life like a normal human. Please don't discourage others from taking medication to treat a very real illness.
- nerdyadventurer 4y ago
rtpg 4y ago
Regarding meds, are people willing to share what kind of doses they are on? I take 27mg of Concerta, and I remember talking to someone taking like... 5x that? And being quite shocked, but there's always that curiosity about what dosages makes sense.
- sph 4y ago
  20mg lisdexamphetamine at 8:30am, and 20mg at 1:00pm. Last until 7pm, little side effects, works great, but after dinner my energy and motivation is exhausted. I guess that's the price to pay for a life I am genuinely proud about.
- adamwk 4y ago
  I'm also on Concerta, taking 45mg. I started at 27 which was too low for me and went up to 54 which was too high; so we came down to 45 which seems to be a Goldie locks for me (they don't make a 45mg pill so I take an 18 and a 27). I also take 150mg Wellbutrin for depression and balance it all off with a nightly 300mg of Gabapentin to help me sleep (coincidentally my cat is prescribed the same amount of gaba to take before the vet because she's a terror on her check ups). This is all is relatively new for me (got diagnosed this year after being misdiagnosed with depression for a very long time) and it's working out OK. One thing I'm still struggling with is break days. They seem to supercharge my (inattentive) ADHD, and I'm kind of dead all day long; maybe there's still room for adjustment and I go back to 36mg Concerta.
  - intermerda 4y ago
    Your experience is so close to mine! I’m on 15 mg Adderall XR - Tried 20 but it was too much. I’ll sometimes take 10 mg short release as well. 500 mg Gabapentin (100 mg for cat), and 150 mg Prozac.
  - rtpg 4y ago
    TBH given that part of my ADHD treatment is about social aspects, break days have never really seemed like a good idea to me. Everyone is different of course but executive function is nice to have off the clock as well IMO.
unixhero 4y ago
So what are the proposed tools?
twishmay 4y ago
[flagged]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Ilasky 4y ago
The article mentions tools for coworking and pairing, which are great tools! (Actually building one too: https://doubleapp.xyz https://doubleapp.xyz) However, as another founder with ADHD, there’s something to be said about being able to take the similar tactics we funnel into work tasks and place it into the day-to-day. Scheduling laundry with others, reading at the same time, running buddies, etc. I’ve found that work stuff is usually okay for me. It’s the “everything else” that’s ridiculously hard to do.
anshumankmr 4y ago
As someone who is also battling ADHD, I feel super anxious reading the comments here all talking about X and Y medicine, which I am super not wanting to do. I used to do therapy but I found my therapist was making videos on Facebook about a few things I told him (though I was never named but I felt this was a huge breach of trust). I exercise quite a bit. (lots of cardio and core exercises, I particularly enjoy barbell squats and sledgehammer workouts ). But since I have had an injury on my foot for the past couple of days I have been taking it easy by not going to the gym and I feel really low cause of this.This is one kind of super positive thing I do. I don't like the gym I go to cause the instructors mostly pay attention to the girls and only ever paid attention to me to sell me some protein powder or when the tim comes for me to renew my subscription. (But that's only a specific issue for my gym, as I am shifting to a new city in a couple of months, I think I can try out a bunch of places before choosing one) The other thing I do occasionally journal, most of the times,which I use it to vent out my thoughts. I also even more rarely do a workbook for CBT (which is for perfectionism which is another trait I found myself to have) Anyway, what I wanted to know was has anyone tried not using any fancy 100$ subscription based apps OR meds to do their work and found success? What did you do and how did you cope with life in general? Background info: I am 25, working in the IT field, I feel kind of directionless in life as I am still working on a plan to get into an MS degree abroad (though my parents really encourage me to do an MBA). /end vent
- bpicolo 4y ago
  I'm 30. I have been unmedicated for 22 years, and finally went back to address it just a month ago. I had many fears as you with regards to medication. Is needing it a weakness? Is it going to change who I am? The first time I took one way scary. And you know what? I figured out, it's just not a big deal. You get a slightly increased heart rate, so you'll feel a little warm the first couple days. Other than that, though, the effect is that you are able to ignore distractions and adjust your focus at will a bit better. It doesn't turn you into someone else, and it doesn't turn you into what you imagine a neurotypical person abusing stimulants is like. If you're struggling in any way, and think it could help, it's worth a try. They're non-addictive (I don't have any particular desire to take them).
- throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
parentheses 4y ago
The 2x deep linked article here is pretty spot on: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33635291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33635291
- hypatiadotca 4y ago
  That article is incredible, highly recommend the read (even if it took me numerous attempts to finish it as it’s hella long)
reilly3000 4y ago
Anyone who has an ADHD diagnosis should also look into ASD. Comorbidity rate data range between 33% and 80% between ADHD and ASD. I’ve only discovered that recently after 10 years as an adult with ADHD. Since then I’ve been looking into the past and recalling things like toe walking as a child, intense sensory issues, painful social interactions, and speech issues. As I’ve done so I’ve also connected with a lot of support resources and community. It’s been really helpful to have a fuller understanding of my blind spots and predispositions. It both helps me adapt to accommodate my needs, but also accept my limitations and unique strengths. ASD is poorly understood by the medical and psychiatric communities; recent research is making some huge steps forward in diagnosing female autistic traits, genetics, and having autistic participation/leadership in research. It’s more poorly understood by the general public. People seem to have the idea that spectrum refers to intensity of symptoms. In fact it refers to their diversity. Some people have strong social skills but lack executive function, others have sensory difficulties and struggle with daily activities like hygiene. There is no “high functioning” autism, there are people who are highly engaged at appearing “normal” to the detriment of their energy and identity, often referred to as ‘masking’. https://carmenbpingree.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Screen-Shot-2020-07-13-at-4.30.12-PM.png https://carmenbpingree.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Screen... My synthesis of the research and anecdotes I’ve collected is that ADHD and ASD are distinct, but there is also likely a unique diagnosis likely to come in the future that represents the combination of the two. All of them are associated with the same regions of the brain, predominantly basal ganglia and cerebellum. It’s incredibly heritable. There is strong evidence that there are connections with endocrine disruption. There is a strong connection with non-conforming gender identity and ‘audhd’ which seem to be related to similar hormonal dynamics. Many many founders and world-changing folks have ADHD, ASD, or some combo. It leads them to think in unique and powerful ways, and to see through established social norms to make real change possible. A lot of “former gifted kids” fall into this bucket. Their ability to learn rapidly and emulate social behavior actually prevents them from getting support for their very real needs which are often understood as symptoms of other disorders like depression. The challenges of real life eventually catch up and can lead to catastrophic burnout and diminishing abilities. If you have an ADHD diagnosis just do yourself a favor and spend some time on embrace-autism.com for some good info and credible assessments.
- 4y ago
4ggr0 4y ago
I was diagnosed with ADD about two years ago and started taking meds. A couple of weeks ago I found something which allowed me to stop taking meds - I started running. I did not expect this to help with my ADD, but my head is so much clearer and focused since I started to run, it's crazy.
- ojkelly 4y ago
  Exercise helps with releasing neurotransmitters like meds do. It’s a known effect, and was recommended to me when I started meds. It works unreasonably well. However, different people need both different meds, and different dosages, so it’s not a substitute for everyone. Genuinely glad it’s working for you, meds are one less thing you need to manage.
- vimsee 4y ago
  ADD here too with severe tics and anxiety. This resonates with me to some extent. Physical workout does wonders for your mentality while also making your body healthier. I am on Aduvanz (Adderall equivalent) and it lifts me up an extra notch, or at least; is a good alternative when time is sparse. But being active is the single most important thing every person can do. I hope doctors will push harder on exercising in the future as we see more and more "cures" in the form of pills in circulation nowadays which, in many cases; could be fixed by a little change in lifestyle. This especially goes for people fighting obesity, insomnia and anxiety. Start using your body and your body will start healing - and your mind will too. All that with the added benefit of (if any) zero side-effects.
  - 4ggr0 4y ago
    > ADD here too with severe tics and anxiety Then it makes sense that I manage to get by without meds and "just" sports. My case is not as severe as yours, in a way I needed the meds to be compatible with a corporate IT job, without them the stress and responsibilities made me really anxious etc. But the last three weeks since I started running have been surprisingly zen to handle, even though I quit the meds cold turkey. > I hope doctors will push harder on exercising in the future Definitely, yes.
- 4y ago
romwell 4y ago
I've been diagnosed last year, at 34, and my life has started making so much more sense. Wish I got diagnosed earlier — getting a mathematics PhD with untreated ADHD was double plus ungood. I didn't know anything about ADHD, and was sure I don't have it because it's described as "deficit of attention" (spoiler: it's not). I realized I need to look into it after relating to one too many ADHD memes. In the aftermath, I have written an ADHD Meme Wiki[1], which helped me (and several other people!) get diagnosed and understand ADHD better: [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd
- johnday 4y ago
  Having just finished (sort of) a PhD in computer science, very similar experience. I actually had to take a three month break, and nearly a second one, in the process because it was so easy to get distracted, overwhelmed and undersupported.
- sprkwd 4y ago
  OH my god. This now all makes perfect sense. Thank you so much.
- LoganDark 4y ago
  THANK YOU SO MUCH for this wiki!! It has so many wonderful things!
  - romwell 4y ago
    So glad it was helpful!
t3estabc 4y ago
fredrikholm 4y ago
Medication really helped me, and combined with (zazen) meditation I have days where I feel like 'normal' people. Working up to meditating for ~30 minute sessions (alone or in groups) forced me to face my worst nightmare: sitting still against my will. Gradually, the physical burning sensation to 'escape' the mental torture of doing nothing calmed down. Further into my practice, the same happened for the monkey mind constantly thinking about shiny things. On good days I can attend long meetings and not lose it, remember chores, calm the chatter in my head, avoid playing mind games to keep myself occupied (eg. "can I cross the road in less than 5, 4, 3, 2 ..."). Medication helped to bump me over to the other side, and meditation has helped me stay there.
- hypatiadotca 4y ago
  Meditation + medication is such a great combo; so many people with ADHD get burned trying to meditate unmedicated and find it miserable. A friend wrote a great twitter thread about meditation+ADHD a couple years back: https://twitter.com/ryanwheff/status/1181339754798780416 https://twitter.com/ryanwheff/status/1181339754798780416
jerrygoyal 4y ago
this adhd relief music has been a blessing for me to quickly get into the hyper focused state. Discovered it 8 months ago and it's still serving me fine https://youtu.be/k9ts6p63ns0 https://youtu.be/k9ts6p63ns0
rastamutta 4y ago
The fact that everyone is diagnosed with adhd and then given amphetamines is going to be the medical scandal of this century. I have several friends who have become unbearable due to being constantly high, one of them quit their job and is now unemployed and alone, unable to function in crowds. Of course they all report that they feel great on the speed!
- rtikulit 4y ago
  Everyone is different, and it's unfortunate that your friend's experience is not good, and that you don't know anyone with a healthy relationship with their medication. The truth is that lots of people manage their stimulants just fine. Across everyone I know on stimulants, 8 friends and family, none are as you describe. These are people I physically see on a regular basis. No one is addicted, high, unable to function or experiencing material personality changes. Every single one of them is taking low to moderate doses, as needed, and says their stimulants changed their life for the better, allowing them to function "normally" at work or school.
- herbst 4y ago
  Ritalin comes with weird side effects. My partner changed quite a bit in a short time until she herself couldn't stand it anymore. Mostly because the libido died and left a thumb feeling. So she switched to better amphetamines (Dextro) and side effects turned away. Leaving only the positive, expected, effects essentially. I took a lot of amphetamines in my life. But Ritalin is the only one I can't stand myself on. It's like a neuroleptic is packaged in (I know it isn't) but it makes so thumb and cold. IMO
- dymk 4y ago
  They sound like they’re not managing their ADHD well and could use adjusted medication and therapy. Hopefully their friends are supportive of them and not secretly denying the existence of their disease. Because wow, that’d be really abhorrent of those friends.
  - rastamutta 4y ago
    That's exactly it, they probably need to adjust their medication. It seems like you are unable to understand that this position comes from a place of trying to be supportive, but thanks for the implication.
herbst 4y ago
Many people here write about trying or hoping to be normal. Do you realize how man founders and extraordinary people have or had ADHD? How about not getting normal, but finding a life/work that fits to you and your lifestyle.
- hypatiadotca 4y ago
  FWIW I have no interest in being “normal” but am highly motivated to be “functional” :)
- andai 4y ago
  The "be successful without becoming normal" idea possessed me for many years, and for me it was a trap because a significant portion of my abnormalities were genuinely pathological, and I thought they were me instead of just bad and unhealthy habits. I thought I had to be genuinely inspired to get work done, and chased that fleeting motivation like a mirage for years instead of just learning how to sit down and work. I thought my sleep was just "different" and my physical and mental health (not to mention productivity) suffered horribly and pointlessly for years until I put my foot down and... just fixed it. Since fixing my sleep, for example, my productivity went from about 2 hours a day (of solid, focused work) to over 10 hours a day. In the span of ten days. That's not a bad exchange rate for a bit of normalcy, is it?
- thelittleone 4y ago
  I can't speak for others but "normal" in the context of this discussion is not a reference to character and behavioral norms, but to productivity and in particular, the ability to complete tasks at a similar rate to non-medicated, non-ADHD people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
sirsinsalot 4y ago
I was diagnosed last year at 35. I've tried and failed to launch my own projects since I was 13. I was a classic adhd child, at a time when diagnosis and treatment was rare. Children whose dopamine regulation issues are treated early can leave medication as their brain adjusts while still plastic. In adulthood you're stuck. I've battled addiction, terrible damage to relationships and failure to achieve my full happiness potential. Founding a company is extra hard. I'm glad I'm medicated now. The result has been life changing and profound. The more we talk, treat and exercise compassion about this horrible neurological disorder the better. It isn't like a broken leg or depression, the symptoms are varied and express in complex ways. Thank you to anyone talking about this with kindness and compassion
- q-base 4y ago
  How has the meds changed your life? And have you done anything else apart from being prescribed medication?
  - sirsinsalot 4y ago
    For the first time in my life i've not had my own brain screaming at me, 24/7, deafening my inner voice with chaotic noise. I can think. I can maintain a single strand of thought, then act on it. I can think, feel appropriate impulse, then "do" based on that impulse without it being out competed by the noise of random impulsive dopamine sparks. I'm the same, my emotions are the same, but there's more control. My brain isn't "hunting" for stimulation. I've been in therapy for 10 years too.
ChildOfChaos 4y ago
I'm not sure if i have ADHD, I seem to come up pretty high for Symptons, but I don't want to play doctor on the internet, i'm also in the UK and as an adult I understand it's very difficult to get a diagnosis. I'm also not sure if it's caused by something else. I just really struggle to function and it's a killer. I have lots of projects and life improvement things I want to do, but I wake up and i'm like ughh, I can't concentrate, my brain is very foggy, I have a lack of energy, it's a nightmare and i'm no longer sure what to do about it. I think my issues might be more related to brain fog, which does come and go, but there isn't a clear trigger and even when it 'goes' i'm never clear at all, it's just a little easier to function, I get a lot of small dull headaches, I struggle to think or concentrate, i'm confused often, my energy struggles, I feel blah about most things and just urgghh... Lots of empathy for people going through this, as i'm sure others just think you are useless or dumb, when I know i'm trying really hard to be the opposite because those things really matter to me.
- sph 4y ago
  It's worth talking with a psych. I'm in UK as well, email's in my profile, I can give you some pointers. (Diagnosed 1 year ago)
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  I was pretty much exactly like you describe yourself here, for most of my life. I vented about it on HN occasionally for years, and every now and then, someone would suggest, "this smells of ADHD; get yourself checked out". So, at 32, I did, got a positive diagnosis, and my life finally started to have a noticeable upward trajectory. One of the major changes was that, for the first time, I could feel I'm actually capable of holding a job and supporting a family. That alone alleviated some serious emotional misery. So, in the spirit of "pay it forward": this smells like ADHD; go and get yourself checked out if you can. It may be nothing. But it may be something, and if it is something - ADHD or not - an array of new options will open up for you. Personal tip: if you do decide to get checked out, try and find an adult ADHD specialist. A random psychiatrist will likely first try to evaluate you for depression or some generic anxiety disorder, and you can waste a decade on it with little to show for it (guess how I know). ADHD is much faster to rule out (or in) than either of those.
don_albrecht 4y ago
Thanks for Sharing, I completely relate to the 100% relapse rate with ADHD. Somehow I manage to be surprised every time I relapse.
avar 4y ago
This short scene from Malcolm in the Middle is the best explanation I've found of ADHD as an adult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0 He tries to turn on the light, the bulb is dead, unscrews it, then as he's getting the bulb the shelf in the cabinet it's in is loose. He gets a screwdriver to fix the cabinet, but the rails on the drawer the screwdriver's in are squeaky. He gets some WD-40 to fix that, but the can of WD-40 is empty. He then gets in the car, which refuses to start. Then his wife gets home, and he's underneath the car covered in motor oil. "Hal, did you replace that light bulb in the kitchen?" "WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE I'M DOING?!".
- ojkelly 4y ago
  It’s the genuine exasperation and haste that sells it. He hasn’t forgotten what he originally started. But he’s earnestly doing his best while seemingly everything fails needing urgent attention. And he missed the obvious (with hindsight) options of, calling a taxi, catching a bus, etc.
- Cockbrand 4y ago
  Also known as Yak Shaving in our industry :) Still, the reference to ADHD is definitely valid!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - avar 4y ago
    This is going to sound like nitpicking, but no, and the distinction is what makes it a good example of ADHD. "Yak shaving" (at least as I've always heard it used) isn't applicable here. It would be if she came home and he's repairing his circular saw or something. Why is he doing that? It's because the ladder's broken, and you need the ladder to reach the light bulb, and to fix the ladder you need the saw. So, a seemingly unrelated task that an outsider observing you might be surprised that you're engaged in, but which is required to allow you to solve the problem at hand. That's "Yak shaving". Whereas he doesn't actually need to fix the shelf, or lubricate the drawer, or fix the car. The only thing that would make it better is if he'd somehow managed to misplace the lightbulbs along the way, with Lois's looking annoyed over a forced candlelight dinner.
darkwater 4y ago
I have this question which comes up in my mind every time I read about ADHD in tech (here, Twitter, blogs etc), which is really genuine and with no second intentions: my feeling is that ADHD seems over represented in tech, but I don't know if it's because ADHD is more invisible in life outside tech jobs, or because people with AHDH in tech are "louder", or because there is a relationship between ADHD and being good at software engineering, or if it's an American thing (I'm European), or what else? I know the topic might be delicate, but I would really like to understand better.
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  Maybe not just tech, but areas in tech where people are pushed to their limits. I was a sysadmin for a decade before I landed a role that pushed me so hard that cracks started to appear.
- trashface 4y ago
  In America there are people with legit ADHD, but for the rest: you need the diagnosis to get the meds, and you need the meds to get jobs.
- ojkelly 4y ago
  > my feeling is that ADHD seems over represented in tech We are overrepresented in tech, relative to the general population. In the most recent StackOverflow developer survey, respondents self-reported at a rate about double the global average. > but I don't know if it's because ADHD is more invisible in life outside tech jobs You almost certainly know or have met people in other industries with ADHD and didn’t know it. Masking is an unfortunate survival skill for most. It’s mentally taxing, and can take hours to recover from after doing it for a day. There used to be a thought that people grew out of it as they got older. They don’t, they just get really good at masking anything that might indicate they have it. We’re seeing an increase in adults with ADHD, not because more people now have it. They had it all along (by definition, ADHD is symptomatically present before 12). > or because there is a relationship between ADHD and being good at software engineering Software engineering has some of the fastest feedback loops of any creative endeavour, and that really helps keep ADHD brains on task. But I don’t think there’s a relationship between the two, other than people with ADHD have a tendency to go really deep on things they’re interested in—and then subsequently drop it and move on to the next thing. Software always has a next thing. People with ADHD thrive on novelty and external consequences. Agile software teams, infra/ops roles provide both. See also fighter pilots, firefighters, ER nurses, as well as outdoor jobs like landscaping (exercise is very good for ADHD brains). We also really hate being told what to do, but will gladly solve a hard problem given the opportunity. Software enables that in a way many other jobs don’t. > I know the topic might be delicate, but I would really like to understand better. I really hope it’s not a delicate topic. Our brains work differently, but with some accomodations we can fit well into a team. I think there’s a very complimentary overlap with teams composed of neurodivergent and neurotypical people.

456 points by luu 4y ago

Still making my way through this article so kinda writing this as it seems relevant. I guess the following is as much for me as anyone reading. > Regarding the long-range management of ADHD, it is important to point out that the relapse rate for ADHD is 100%. What I think is maybe related to what is discussed about CBT... In the past I've relied on being able to set aside large spans of time to either get things done, allow myself time to be mindless (mindfulness?), organize things, etc before the interruptions started. This worked fantastically as I was up at 4-6 am every weekday (father duties at the weekend), reading, learning, working, writing, etc, before the slack messages, meetings, email started rolling in. I guess I had a similar system long ago when I was single, staying up all night till the crack of dawn reading, writing, but mostly wasting time on the internet. That wasn't feasible with a family so I somehow managed to push everything over to the other side of my sleep schedule, despite NEVER being a morning person. It was tough, but I made it work and things got better. It still took me forever to do the most basic things, but at least I had more uninterrupted time to get them done. I feel like I had found a coping strategy for my ADHD. Recently, everything came crashing down when my routine was disrupted by having to get my daughter up, ready and dropped off at school. I was able to figure out a way to split this responsibility to half of the week, but that's since become my whole responsibility. I also have to pick her up from school (50% of the time), make dinner, clean up, etc... I also put her to be every night. By the time that's all done and I've taken care of my own needs it's basically time to get to bed. Now I've fallen so far behind at work, no time for professional or personal learning, no organizing, etc... Additionally my marriage is in a state that I could never have imagined (although this was on its way to happening either way). Now I think I'm battling some depression, anxiety, sleep deprivation... all of this obviously just makes everything even worse. What I now recognize is that I became far too dependent on the luxury of having large spans of uninterrupted personal time. This is great while it lasts, but for some like me, not guaranteed. Instead, I've begun to rely on small increments of time and effort, and I think that some of these CBT techniques and the overall framework might help. > This harkens back to our notion that CBT for adult ADHD provides a framework for understanding how dif- ficulties arise as well as companion coping strategies with which to make changes It's tough, but I think it's the only way I'm going to survive. Btw, I am in therapy and have medicine, and despite all of this I am a happy individual and still love life. > I also went from taking nothing on weekends to taking half my weekday dose. My life on the weekend doesn’t need as much executive function, but it doesn’t not need any One thing that wasn't immediately apparent to me was that my ADHD isn't restricted to work hours. I need to be able to focus on my family, friends and self as much as whatever I'm trying to get done at work. I too felt shameful about being on medicine, but come to realize that neurotypicals just don't understand the effects and benefits of some of these medications. I'll prob add more if i can find some time to come back to the article and this thread. FYI, recently diagnosed with ADHD in my forties. I've been unknowingly dealing with ADHD all my life. It explains so many issues that I've been dealing with since I can remember. It's hard not to feel some kind of resentment and anger about why no one noticed long ago. In many ways I feel like someone has just woken me up from a 40 year slumber, like an adult that didn't listen during school and has to go back and learn everything from scratch. Whenever I heard about people with ADHD I always imagined they had some kind of focusing superpower. Fuck ADHD, I feel like it's trying to ruin my life.

znpy 4y ago

i've been putting off reading this, and the comments.

ttcbj 4y ago

I saw the guy who founded kinkos speak at Babson business school about 20 years ago. Weirdly, he was there due to some sponsorship related to disabilities because he had ADHD. He got up and in the first 30 seconds said he thought ADHD had helped him, didn’t think of it as a negative, and just came because he wanted to tell his story. Like so many founders (esp of retail businesses, I find), he was super charismatic and had a very practical, easy to understand model of the business. It was the best talk I saw in my brief time at babson, and I saw a bunch of good talks by founders. I believe the guy who founded jet blue also has ADHD and feels similarly. Everyone has their own perspective, but if you get a chance to see the Kinkos founder speak, I recommend it (he might be pretty old by now).

triggercut 4y ago
> Weirdly, he was there due to some sponsorship related to disabilities because he had ADHD. Can I ask why you find that weird? ADHD is, and is also comorbid with other learning disabilities. ADHD has so many dimensions and interrelationships between those dimensions that everybody's lived experience is different. If you know one person with ADHD, then you know one person with ADHD, you don't know everyone with ADHD. Heck my best friend growing up had severe ADHD, what used to be called "ring-of-fire". Both his parents are clinical experts in ADHD, and have been since he was young. Yet despite knowing me incredibly well over a couple of decades none of them suspected that I had it. To be fair, three psychiatrists and dozens of psychologists missed it too, until one had a hunch that finally led to me getting diagnosed in my late 30s.
- bitexploder 4y ago
  I feel the ADHD is a strength not weakness mentality is generally harmful. There are some aspects of it that can help, especially when you are not deep working on one thing, but in general, I think it is unequivocally not a benefit to almost anyone who has it. edit: I would add there is some survivorship bias to it too. Successful CEO says ADHD helped? Huh. Cool. There is a reason alcoholism and substance abuse have significant overlap with ADHD communities. For example, I built and sold an infosec consulting firm and I have ADHD. I could tell you stories about how in some limited circumstances operating a business it helped. But that ignores all the times I struggled and had to dig deep into my well of ADHD management skills to stay focused and efficient on chores I don’t like doing.

nyanpasu64 4y ago

I tried signing up for Inflow, but noped out when it asked to fill out survey questions and supply an email address.

klysm 4y ago
How do you expect to go about the modern internet without supplying an email address to sign up for something?
- firecall 4y ago
  It's more than that... It's not even clear what you are signing up for, and they start asking a bunch of personal questions... My ADHD brain noped out of there in an overwhelmed browser closing act of defiance! :-)
thesausageking 4y ago
Same. It's like it was designed specifically to make it hard for ADHDers to sign up. Little information about the service or what I'm signing up for or what it costs, the "get started" button opens a new tab on a different site, etc. I bookmarked it with the intention to go back. However, I know realistically I won't.
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
  It's a weirdly designed funnel. I somehow ended up going through part of it twice (second time in the app). I have email scolding me for attempting to sign up with an address that already had an account. Not the craziest designed-by-marketing thing I've seen, but up there. But hey, it's not like I'm looking to them for UX advice.
  - thesausageking 4y ago
    What happens at the end of it funnel? What exactly is the app? And how much is it?

triggercut 4y ago

>"Highly recommend not yelling at yourself constantly." In Australia we call this "Living the dream".

vbad 4y ago

> After meeting the founders last summer during their YC batch, I’ve been pretty consistently using the app InFlow, which I described to a friend as “super chill easy cognitive behavioural skill-building around ADHD.” I feel like I’ve made real progress using it. This blog post reads like an advertisement for InFlow (YC S21), which was roundly criticized for being exploitative of people with ADHD, when it was posted to HN last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28877003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28877003 [Edit: the author has clarified below that this wasn't actually an advertisement, she just enjoyed the app. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions and overreacting and ranting about it. My apologies for writing all the bullshit above and below.]

RobotToaster 4y ago
Yeah, I switched off the moment I saw their first recommendation was a $50 a month app.
972811 4y ago
I don’t really agree. The author mentions many books, methods, and apps and that just happens to be the first.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
falcolas 4y ago
They mention it once... and cover a lot of other things. So while I agree with the linked threads, this doesn't really read as an ad for InFlow any more than it reads as an ad for CBT or Intuniv. My impression.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- vbad 4y ago
  The author mentions it right after the introduction, with no criticism whatsoever, only praise. Unlike the rest of the piece which is more balanced. It certainly set the advertisement alarm bells ringing in my mind.

xwowsersx 4y ago

Has anyone here used InFlow (the app mentioned in the article)? Curious to hear your experiences if you have.

grhappl 4y ago
I noped out as soon as I saw it wanted a yearly subscription to activate a week-long 'free' trial. I didn't trust myself to remember to cancel it in time and was disgusted at them weaponizing this dark pattern against ADHDers, so that was it for me. If you go to the Play Store and search for the one-star reviews there are loads of people saying the same. And also for those that did try it, that it's mostly useless anyway.
- xwowsersx 4y ago
  Yikes, yeah that's not good
- FL410 4y ago
  Pro-tip, at least on Apple devices: "buy" the trial, then immediately cancel it in your subscriptions. You'll still have access to it for whatever the trial period is, then it'll just stop working (vs. bill you).
  - hypatiadotca 4y ago
    This is the real ADHD MVP tip
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Same. And the form to "personalize" your experience is a dark pattern to lead you to commit to this. It's used by the porn and gambling industries to increase conversation and I wouldn't trust a healthcare company using it.

throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

I diagnosed when I was like... 8 years old. From then to 17 I was on various meds, finally gave them all up. So for about 22 years I've coped with ADHD without meds. I am a Staff Engineer and make a good living, respected in my field. Regardless of anything else, I think the key thing to remember about ADHD is that you do not need to be a high-performing human being, at all, in life. You will forget things and get distracted and not get as much done. So what. You are still intelligent and caring and dedicated and responsible and a hard worker. You probably put more effort in (when you get around to it) than many others without the condition. And you will do about as well as everyone else, on average. And this is fine. Do not put pressure on yourself to live up to what someone else can do. Only do what you can do, in your time, and be at peace.

slothtrop 4y ago
Similar case here. In rational circles a study (or studies) came around showing that learning outcomes between the medicated and unmedicated are roughly the same even if testing performance is better on medication. Since I improved my sleep (and lowered distractions), I've had no issues performing or focusing as needed, at least as much as the next guy. I think the meds are a double-edged sword, and the compromise may be more appropriate for some than others. I also think even more strongly that despite real cases, ADHD medication is overprescribed in the West. If school was boring and I'm a daydreamer, do I need to be "corrected"?
just3ws 4y ago
Thanks, I really needed to be reminded of that this morning. I've been beating myself up over the same types of thinking and it can be hard sometimes.
darksaints 4y ago
I had dropped out of college three times, spent a short stint homeless, and had nothing but tumultuous relationships before I was diagnosed with ADHD and started medication. Now I can live life like a normal human. Please don't discourage others from taking medication to treat a very real illness.
nerdyadventurer 4y ago

rtpg 4y ago

Regarding meds, are people willing to share what kind of doses they are on? I take 27mg of Concerta, and I remember talking to someone taking like... 5x that? And being quite shocked, but there's always that curiosity about what dosages makes sense.

sph 4y ago
20mg lisdexamphetamine at 8:30am, and 20mg at 1:00pm. Last until 7pm, little side effects, works great, but after dinner my energy and motivation is exhausted. I guess that's the price to pay for a life I am genuinely proud about.
adamwk 4y ago
I'm also on Concerta, taking 45mg. I started at 27 which was too low for me and went up to 54 which was too high; so we came down to 45 which seems to be a Goldie locks for me (they don't make a 45mg pill so I take an 18 and a 27). I also take 150mg Wellbutrin for depression and balance it all off with a nightly 300mg of Gabapentin to help me sleep (coincidentally my cat is prescribed the same amount of gaba to take before the vet because she's a terror on her check ups). This is all is relatively new for me (got diagnosed this year after being misdiagnosed with depression for a very long time) and it's working out OK. One thing I'm still struggling with is break days. They seem to supercharge my (inattentive) ADHD, and I'm kind of dead all day long; maybe there's still room for adjustment and I go back to 36mg Concerta.
- intermerda 4y ago
  Your experience is so close to mine! I’m on 15 mg Adderall XR - Tried 20 but it was too much. I’ll sometimes take 10 mg short release as well. 500 mg Gabapentin (100 mg for cat), and 150 mg Prozac.
- rtpg 4y ago
  TBH given that part of my ADHD treatment is about social aspects, break days have never really seemed like a good idea to me. Everyone is different of course but executive function is nice to have off the clock as well IMO.

unixhero 4y ago

So what are the proposed tools?

twishmay 4y ago

[flagged]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Ilasky 4y ago

The article mentions tools for coworking and pairing, which are great tools! (Actually building one too: https://doubleapp.xyz https://doubleapp.xyz) However, as another founder with ADHD, there’s something to be said about being able to take the similar tactics we funnel into work tasks and place it into the day-to-day. Scheduling laundry with others, reading at the same time, running buddies, etc. I’ve found that work stuff is usually okay for me. It’s the “everything else” that’s ridiculously hard to do.

anshumankmr 4y ago

As someone who is also battling ADHD, I feel super anxious reading the comments here all talking about X and Y medicine, which I am super not wanting to do. I used to do therapy but I found my therapist was making videos on Facebook about a few things I told him (though I was never named but I felt this was a huge breach of trust). I exercise quite a bit. (lots of cardio and core exercises, I particularly enjoy barbell squats and sledgehammer workouts ). But since I have had an injury on my foot for the past couple of days I have been taking it easy by not going to the gym and I feel really low cause of this.This is one kind of super positive thing I do. I don't like the gym I go to cause the instructors mostly pay attention to the girls and only ever paid attention to me to sell me some protein powder or when the tim comes for me to renew my subscription. (But that's only a specific issue for my gym, as I am shifting to a new city in a couple of months, I think I can try out a bunch of places before choosing one) The other thing I do occasionally journal, most of the times,which I use it to vent out my thoughts. I also even more rarely do a workbook for CBT (which is for perfectionism which is another trait I found myself to have) Anyway, what I wanted to know was has anyone tried not using any fancy 100$ subscription based apps OR meds to do their work and found success? What did you do and how did you cope with life in general? Background info: I am 25, working in the IT field, I feel kind of directionless in life as I am still working on a plan to get into an MS degree abroad (though my parents really encourage me to do an MBA). /end vent

bpicolo 4y ago
I'm 30. I have been unmedicated for 22 years, and finally went back to address it just a month ago. I had many fears as you with regards to medication. Is needing it a weakness? Is it going to change who I am? The first time I took one way scary. And you know what? I figured out, it's just not a big deal. You get a slightly increased heart rate, so you'll feel a little warm the first couple days. Other than that, though, the effect is that you are able to ignore distractions and adjust your focus at will a bit better. It doesn't turn you into someone else, and it doesn't turn you into what you imagine a neurotypical person abusing stimulants is like. If you're struggling in any way, and think it could help, it's worth a try. They're non-addictive (I don't have any particular desire to take them).
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

parentheses 4y ago

The 2x deep linked article here is pretty spot on: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33635291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33635291

hypatiadotca 4y ago
That article is incredible, highly recommend the read (even if it took me numerous attempts to finish it as it’s hella long)

reilly3000 4y ago

Anyone who has an ADHD diagnosis should also look into ASD. Comorbidity rate data range between 33% and 80% between ADHD and ASD. I’ve only discovered that recently after 10 years as an adult with ADHD. Since then I’ve been looking into the past and recalling things like toe walking as a child, intense sensory issues, painful social interactions, and speech issues. As I’ve done so I’ve also connected with a lot of support resources and community. It’s been really helpful to have a fuller understanding of my blind spots and predispositions. It both helps me adapt to accommodate my needs, but also accept my limitations and unique strengths. ASD is poorly understood by the medical and psychiatric communities; recent research is making some huge steps forward in diagnosing female autistic traits, genetics, and having autistic participation/leadership in research. It’s more poorly understood by the general public. People seem to have the idea that spectrum refers to intensity of symptoms. In fact it refers to their diversity. Some people have strong social skills but lack executive function, others have sensory difficulties and struggle with daily activities like hygiene. There is no “high functioning” autism, there are people who are highly engaged at appearing “normal” to the detriment of their energy and identity, often referred to as ‘masking’. https://carmenbpingree.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Screen-Shot-2020-07-13-at-4.30.12-PM.png https://carmenbpingree.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Screen... My synthesis of the research and anecdotes I’ve collected is that ADHD and ASD are distinct, but there is also likely a unique diagnosis likely to come in the future that represents the combination of the two. All of them are associated with the same regions of the brain, predominantly basal ganglia and cerebellum. It’s incredibly heritable. There is strong evidence that there are connections with endocrine disruption. There is a strong connection with non-conforming gender identity and ‘audhd’ which seem to be related to similar hormonal dynamics. Many many founders and world-changing folks have ADHD, ASD, or some combo. It leads them to think in unique and powerful ways, and to see through established social norms to make real change possible. A lot of “former gifted kids” fall into this bucket. Their ability to learn rapidly and emulate social behavior actually prevents them from getting support for their very real needs which are often understood as symptoms of other disorders like depression. The challenges of real life eventually catch up and can lead to catastrophic burnout and diminishing abilities. If you have an ADHD diagnosis just do yourself a favor and spend some time on embrace-autism.com for some good info and credible assessments.

4y ago

4ggr0 4y ago

I was diagnosed with ADD about two years ago and started taking meds. A couple of weeks ago I found something which allowed me to stop taking meds - I started running. I did not expect this to help with my ADD, but my head is so much clearer and focused since I started to run, it's crazy.

ojkelly 4y ago
Exercise helps with releasing neurotransmitters like meds do. It’s a known effect, and was recommended to me when I started meds. It works unreasonably well. However, different people need both different meds, and different dosages, so it’s not a substitute for everyone. Genuinely glad it’s working for you, meds are one less thing you need to manage.
vimsee 4y ago
ADD here too with severe tics and anxiety. This resonates with me to some extent. Physical workout does wonders for your mentality while also making your body healthier. I am on Aduvanz (Adderall equivalent) and it lifts me up an extra notch, or at least; is a good alternative when time is sparse. But being active is the single most important thing every person can do. I hope doctors will push harder on exercising in the future as we see more and more "cures" in the form of pills in circulation nowadays which, in many cases; could be fixed by a little change in lifestyle. This especially goes for people fighting obesity, insomnia and anxiety. Start using your body and your body will start healing - and your mind will too. All that with the added benefit of (if any) zero side-effects.
- 4ggr0 4y ago
  > ADD here too with severe tics and anxiety Then it makes sense that I manage to get by without meds and "just" sports. My case is not as severe as yours, in a way I needed the meds to be compatible with a corporate IT job, without them the stress and responsibilities made me really anxious etc. But the last three weeks since I started running have been surprisingly zen to handle, even though I quit the meds cold turkey. > I hope doctors will push harder on exercising in the future Definitely, yes.
4y ago

romwell 4y ago

I've been diagnosed last year, at 34, and my life has started making so much more sense. Wish I got diagnosed earlier — getting a mathematics PhD with untreated ADHD was double plus ungood. I didn't know anything about ADHD, and was sure I don't have it because it's described as "deficit of attention" (spoiler: it's not). I realized I need to look into it after relating to one too many ADHD memes. In the aftermath, I have written an ADHD Meme Wiki[1], which helped me (and several other people!) get diagnosed and understand ADHD better: [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd https://romankogan.net/adhd

johnday 4y ago
Having just finished (sort of) a PhD in computer science, very similar experience. I actually had to take a three month break, and nearly a second one, in the process because it was so easy to get distracted, overwhelmed and undersupported.
sprkwd 4y ago
OH my god. This now all makes perfect sense. Thank you so much.
LoganDark 4y ago
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this wiki!! It has so many wonderful things!
- romwell 4y ago
  So glad it was helpful!

t3estabc 4y ago

fredrikholm 4y ago

Medication really helped me, and combined with (zazen) meditation I have days where I feel like 'normal' people. Working up to meditating for ~30 minute sessions (alone or in groups) forced me to face my worst nightmare: sitting still against my will. Gradually, the physical burning sensation to 'escape' the mental torture of doing nothing calmed down. Further into my practice, the same happened for the monkey mind constantly thinking about shiny things. On good days I can attend long meetings and not lose it, remember chores, calm the chatter in my head, avoid playing mind games to keep myself occupied (eg. "can I cross the road in less than 5, 4, 3, 2 ..."). Medication helped to bump me over to the other side, and meditation has helped me stay there.

hypatiadotca 4y ago
Meditation + medication is such a great combo; so many people with ADHD get burned trying to meditate unmedicated and find it miserable. A friend wrote a great twitter thread about meditation+ADHD a couple years back: https://twitter.com/ryanwheff/status/1181339754798780416 https://twitter.com/ryanwheff/status/1181339754798780416

jerrygoyal 4y ago

this adhd relief music has been a blessing for me to quickly get into the hyper focused state. Discovered it 8 months ago and it's still serving me fine https://youtu.be/k9ts6p63ns0 https://youtu.be/k9ts6p63ns0

rastamutta 4y ago

The fact that everyone is diagnosed with adhd and then given amphetamines is going to be the medical scandal of this century. I have several friends who have become unbearable due to being constantly high, one of them quit their job and is now unemployed and alone, unable to function in crowds. Of course they all report that they feel great on the speed!

rtikulit 4y ago
Everyone is different, and it's unfortunate that your friend's experience is not good, and that you don't know anyone with a healthy relationship with their medication. The truth is that lots of people manage their stimulants just fine. Across everyone I know on stimulants, 8 friends and family, none are as you describe. These are people I physically see on a regular basis. No one is addicted, high, unable to function or experiencing material personality changes. Every single one of them is taking low to moderate doses, as needed, and says their stimulants changed their life for the better, allowing them to function "normally" at work or school.
herbst 4y ago
Ritalin comes with weird side effects. My partner changed quite a bit in a short time until she herself couldn't stand it anymore. Mostly because the libido died and left a thumb feeling. So she switched to better amphetamines (Dextro) and side effects turned away. Leaving only the positive, expected, effects essentially. I took a lot of amphetamines in my life. But Ritalin is the only one I can't stand myself on. It's like a neuroleptic is packaged in (I know it isn't) but it makes so thumb and cold. IMO
dymk 4y ago
They sound like they’re not managing their ADHD well and could use adjusted medication and therapy. Hopefully their friends are supportive of them and not secretly denying the existence of their disease. Because wow, that’d be really abhorrent of those friends.
- rastamutta 4y ago
  That's exactly it, they probably need to adjust their medication. It seems like you are unable to understand that this position comes from a place of trying to be supportive, but thanks for the implication.

herbst 4y ago

Many people here write about trying or hoping to be normal. Do you realize how man founders and extraordinary people have or had ADHD? How about not getting normal, but finding a life/work that fits to you and your lifestyle.

hypatiadotca 4y ago
FWIW I have no interest in being “normal” but am highly motivated to be “functional” :)
andai 4y ago
The "be successful without becoming normal" idea possessed me for many years, and for me it was a trap because a significant portion of my abnormalities were genuinely pathological, and I thought they were me instead of just bad and unhealthy habits. I thought I had to be genuinely inspired to get work done, and chased that fleeting motivation like a mirage for years instead of just learning how to sit down and work. I thought my sleep was just "different" and my physical and mental health (not to mention productivity) suffered horribly and pointlessly for years until I put my foot down and... just fixed it. Since fixing my sleep, for example, my productivity went from about 2 hours a day (of solid, focused work) to over 10 hours a day. In the span of ten days. That's not a bad exchange rate for a bit of normalcy, is it?
thelittleone 4y ago
I can't speak for others but "normal" in the context of this discussion is not a reference to character and behavioral norms, but to productivity and in particular, the ability to complete tasks at a similar rate to non-medicated, non-ADHD people.
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sirsinsalot 4y ago

I was diagnosed last year at 35. I've tried and failed to launch my own projects since I was 13. I was a classic adhd child, at a time when diagnosis and treatment was rare. Children whose dopamine regulation issues are treated early can leave medication as their brain adjusts while still plastic. In adulthood you're stuck. I've battled addiction, terrible damage to relationships and failure to achieve my full happiness potential. Founding a company is extra hard. I'm glad I'm medicated now. The result has been life changing and profound. The more we talk, treat and exercise compassion about this horrible neurological disorder the better. It isn't like a broken leg or depression, the symptoms are varied and express in complex ways. Thank you to anyone talking about this with kindness and compassion

q-base 4y ago
How has the meds changed your life? And have you done anything else apart from being prescribed medication?
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  For the first time in my life i've not had my own brain screaming at me, 24/7, deafening my inner voice with chaotic noise. I can think. I can maintain a single strand of thought, then act on it. I can think, feel appropriate impulse, then "do" based on that impulse without it being out competed by the noise of random impulsive dopamine sparks. I'm the same, my emotions are the same, but there's more control. My brain isn't "hunting" for stimulation. I've been in therapy for 10 years too.

ChildOfChaos 4y ago

I'm not sure if i have ADHD, I seem to come up pretty high for Symptons, but I don't want to play doctor on the internet, i'm also in the UK and as an adult I understand it's very difficult to get a diagnosis. I'm also not sure if it's caused by something else. I just really struggle to function and it's a killer. I have lots of projects and life improvement things I want to do, but I wake up and i'm like ughh, I can't concentrate, my brain is very foggy, I have a lack of energy, it's a nightmare and i'm no longer sure what to do about it. I think my issues might be more related to brain fog, which does come and go, but there isn't a clear trigger and even when it 'goes' i'm never clear at all, it's just a little easier to function, I get a lot of small dull headaches, I struggle to think or concentrate, i'm confused often, my energy struggles, I feel blah about most things and just urgghh... Lots of empathy for people going through this, as i'm sure others just think you are useless or dumb, when I know i'm trying really hard to be the opposite because those things really matter to me.

sph 4y ago
It's worth talking with a psych. I'm in UK as well, email's in my profile, I can give you some pointers. (Diagnosed 1 year ago)
TeMPOraL 4y ago
I was pretty much exactly like you describe yourself here, for most of my life. I vented about it on HN occasionally for years, and every now and then, someone would suggest, "this smells of ADHD; get yourself checked out". So, at 32, I did, got a positive diagnosis, and my life finally started to have a noticeable upward trajectory. One of the major changes was that, for the first time, I could feel I'm actually capable of holding a job and supporting a family. That alone alleviated some serious emotional misery. So, in the spirit of "pay it forward": this smells like ADHD; go and get yourself checked out if you can. It may be nothing. But it may be something, and if it is something - ADHD or not - an array of new options will open up for you. Personal tip: if you do decide to get checked out, try and find an adult ADHD specialist. A random psychiatrist will likely first try to evaluate you for depression or some generic anxiety disorder, and you can waste a decade on it with little to show for it (guess how I know). ADHD is much faster to rule out (or in) than either of those.

don_albrecht 4y ago

Thanks for Sharing, I completely relate to the 100% relapse rate with ADHD. Somehow I manage to be surprised every time I relapse.

avar 4y ago

This short scene from Malcolm in the Middle is the best explanation I've found of ADHD as an adult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0 He tries to turn on the light, the bulb is dead, unscrews it, then as he's getting the bulb the shelf in the cabinet it's in is loose. He gets a screwdriver to fix the cabinet, but the rails on the drawer the screwdriver's in are squeaky. He gets some WD-40 to fix that, but the can of WD-40 is empty. He then gets in the car, which refuses to start. Then his wife gets home, and he's underneath the car covered in motor oil. "Hal, did you replace that light bulb in the kitchen?" "WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE I'M DOING?!".

ojkelly 4y ago
It’s the genuine exasperation and haste that sells it. He hasn’t forgotten what he originally started. But he’s earnestly doing his best while seemingly everything fails needing urgent attention. And he missed the obvious (with hindsight) options of, calling a taxi, catching a bus, etc.
Cockbrand 4y ago
Also known as Yak Shaving in our industry :) Still, the reference to ADHD is definitely valid!
- deleted 4y ago
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- avar 4y ago
  This is going to sound like nitpicking, but no, and the distinction is what makes it a good example of ADHD. "Yak shaving" (at least as I've always heard it used) isn't applicable here. It would be if she came home and he's repairing his circular saw or something. Why is he doing that? It's because the ladder's broken, and you need the ladder to reach the light bulb, and to fix the ladder you need the saw. So, a seemingly unrelated task that an outsider observing you might be surprised that you're engaged in, but which is required to allow you to solve the problem at hand. That's "Yak shaving". Whereas he doesn't actually need to fix the shelf, or lubricate the drawer, or fix the car. The only thing that would make it better is if he'd somehow managed to misplace the lightbulbs along the way, with Lois's looking annoyed over a forced candlelight dinner.

darkwater 4y ago

I have this question which comes up in my mind every time I read about ADHD in tech (here, Twitter, blogs etc), which is really genuine and with no second intentions: my feeling is that ADHD seems over represented in tech, but I don't know if it's because ADHD is more invisible in life outside tech jobs, or because people with AHDH in tech are "louder", or because there is a relationship between ADHD and being good at software engineering, or if it's an American thing (I'm European), or what else? I know the topic might be delicate, but I would really like to understand better.

imwillofficial 4y ago
Maybe not just tech, but areas in tech where people are pushed to their limits. I was a sysadmin for a decade before I landed a role that pushed me so hard that cracks started to appear.
trashface 4y ago
In America there are people with legit ADHD, but for the rest: you need the diagnosis to get the meds, and you need the meds to get jobs.
ojkelly 4y ago
> my feeling is that ADHD seems over represented in tech We are overrepresented in tech, relative to the general population. In the most recent StackOverflow developer survey, respondents self-reported at a rate about double the global average. > but I don't know if it's because ADHD is more invisible in life outside tech jobs You almost certainly know or have met people in other industries with ADHD and didn’t know it. Masking is an unfortunate survival skill for most. It’s mentally taxing, and can take hours to recover from after doing it for a day. There used to be a thought that people grew out of it as they got older. They don’t, they just get really good at masking anything that might indicate they have it. We’re seeing an increase in adults with ADHD, not because more people now have it. They had it all along (by definition, ADHD is symptomatically present before 12). > or because there is a relationship between ADHD and being good at software engineering Software engineering has some of the fastest feedback loops of any creative endeavour, and that really helps keep ADHD brains on task. But I don’t think there’s a relationship between the two, other than people with ADHD have a tendency to go really deep on things they’re interested in—and then subsequently drop it and move on to the next thing. Software always has a next thing. People with ADHD thrive on novelty and external consequences. Agile software teams, infra/ops roles provide both. See also fighter pilots, firefighters, ER nurses, as well as outdoor jobs like landscaping (exercise is very good for ADHD brains). We also really hate being told what to do, but will gladly solve a hard problem given the opportunity. Software enables that in a way many other jobs don’t. > I know the topic might be delicate, but I would really like to understand better. I really hope it’s not a delicate topic. Our brains work differently, but with some accomodations we can fit well into a team. I think there’s a very complimentary overlap with teams composed of neurodivergent and neurotypical people.