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Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous

Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will result in a higher expected mortality rate over the mean. I don't know who in their right mind would think flying down a street at >15mph on a single wheel would be _not_ incredibly dangerous. Let adults make stupid decisions - whether that's jumping off a building with a parachute, riding a bike down a recklessly steep hill or hurtling my body down Main St. on a sideways unicycle.

latchkey 4y ago
> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Yes. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuries https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri... Edit: I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of injuries. Especially with random lockups. There are videos about the poor construction, lockups, dangerous to self repair, etc. I found them when I started to look into buying one of these myself. Here is a reddit thread full of stories... https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_about_our_one_wheel_injuries/ https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_... Old, but Casey Neistat broke his collar bone... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI Lawsuit over wrongful death: https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit Nosedives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg Electronic issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0 Onewheel CEO SBF moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14
- shockeychap 4y ago
  This is not a link to a video describing a specific bug in the product. It's just a link to a search of "onewheel injuries" in YouTube, which presents a variety of videos detailing all manner of injuries that come from operator error and the inherent dangers of OneWheel operation. Try searching for "mountain bike injuries" and see what you get. Is there anything else? (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this confirmed?)
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this confirmed?) The first few seconds of this 2-year-old video shows it happening to Adam Savage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY What I'm finding after some light digging is that this "nosedive" problem has seemingly been injuring people for years. There's apparently even a small ecosystem of add-on products that purport to address it: https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense
    - the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
      > Using an intuitive redline display, the power gauge lets you know at a glance how much power the motor has left before a nosedive is imminent. What a quote.
    - Gatsky 4y ago
      That Adam Savage footage… Ok, thanks, never getting on one of these things. It is just a flawed concept basically.
- Zak 4y ago
  These search results do not appear to describe a flaw in the product. I watched a bit from one of the crash compilations and would describe every crash I saw as rider error. Many of them were attempting stunts, holding cameras while riding, or both. It may be easy to make such errors, but the same could be said of a unicycle, skateboard, BMX bike, or any of many other vehicles generally seen as safe enough for sale to the public.
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    Not even 4 deaths a year, I have to say this is still a magnitude safer than swimming or skiing. It's dangerous to some degree, but enough for a recall seems over the top. Just the statement itself seems unusually targeted. First they came for the magnets, now the uniboards?
    - fn-mote 4y ago
      > Not even 4 deaths a year, I have to say this is still a magnitude safer than swimming or skiing. The only meaningful comparison would be a _rate_, not total number of injuries. Google says there are 40 skiing deaths per year in the US. It would be very easy to believe there are 100x more people skiing than uniboarding. This passes my back of the envelope test for "dangerous". If you've got better numbers, I'll listen.
      - Zak 4y ago
        My take on it is that if it's no more dangerous than the term "20+ MPH electrically-driven skateboard/unicycle hybrid" sounds, then it's perfectly fine to market it to adults. That sounds kind of dangerous to me. If I was going to ride one, I'd be sure I was wearing a helmet, knee pads, and elbow pads. I'd ride it in a very controlled space free of obstacles, uneven surfaces, and unpredictable road users until I mastered controlling it. I'd step up that safety gear a notch if I was attempting stunts. Some people aren't that careful, but as long as they're injuring themselves rather than others, it does not strike me as grounds for a recall. Edit: the wheel locking randomly or unpredictably certainly would be grounds for a recall, but the linked Youtube search doesn't show that, at least not without watching a couple hours of video.
advisedwang 4y ago
> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous generally, but a specific product flaw.
- nomel 4y ago
  I don't think this is what's happening, at all. Here's a deep dive into what's actually happening, which is people ignoring built in safety, overpowering the motors ability to keep them upright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI The motor is at maximum power and speed when this happens.
  - chabons 4y ago
    This video is directly produced by Onewheel's marketing department. It does certainly highlight one way user error can lead to injury on a Onewheel, but I don't think this is a credible refutation of the idea that there may be a flaw in the product.
  - mcrady 4y ago
    I had a onewheel that would occasionally just stop. The first time I was going at 15 mph and fortunately came away with only a few scrapes. I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation which I don't know that I fully believe: Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They found that the power button had broken which led to damage to the controller circuit board. Both have been replaced under warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op testings it was picked up by FedEx!
  - ccakes 4y ago
    Admittedly a marketing video but still a pretty cool deep-dive by the company - great watch!
  - contravariant 4y ago
    I see, assuming that is what's happening here I'm still not entirely certain if this is usage error or a design fault. There's two things I have my doubts about. Firstly, sure pushback seems like it is noticeable but is it really instinctual to push less when something starts pushing back? A counterforce is good at preventing someone from moving something, but I'm not too sure if it's good at preventing them from trying. Secondly, I have my doubts about a system of transportation that cannot slow down without throwing off its rider. I mean the automatic balancing is a fun trick, but it's somewhat concerning when the only response it has in case of problems of insufficient power is to accelerate even more and when that doesn't work it does a nose dive resulting in what looks like a sudden stop.
aksss 4y ago
When the GT was released, there was a problem with "ghosting", which meant the board would keep moving after the rider had gotten off the board. This was traced to a faulty sensor in the foot pad, for which Future Motion eventually did issue a recall and will replace that gen foot pad at no add'l cost. It affected a minority of the boards, and the biggest concern was the board crashing into a pedestrian's ankle or smashing into traffic or parked cars. It was certainly a concern, but in no way something that could reasonably be expected to cause death or injury to the rider. That recall from FM of the footpad was done this summer. There is no open issue that I'm aware of with the board. Using them is inherently risky though, like downhill biking or snowboarding.
Exuma 4y ago
I can only imagine it's about the feature where it "warns" you when you are leaning too far, which you can choose to ignore. I'm assuming most injuries are from people pushing the angle way too hard
apienx 4y ago
"I don't understand why now?" Bureaucratic inefficiencies. "Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death?" There was an issue that the community referred to as "ghosting" whereby the board got a bit out of control. This was fixed with a firmware update. The boards also nosedive when approaching top speed. Some people consider that a bug, but it's just users neglecting instructions and warnings.
- TheCondor 4y ago
  I know a couple of people injured by the so-called non-bug and they have both dumped their one wheels and feel duped about it. I hate to think that the whole idea is fatally flawed, but it should have enough reserve power to gracefully slow you down if the machine is in trouble. They guys I know, one is a very talented board sporter and broke his collarbone. He takes safety pretty seriously and felt like there was no warning and it just cut out on him. North of 10mph? That's a pretty good tumble for most people, you might not just pop up after it. In the case of my friends, they knew they were going to get hurt, they were setting up ramps and trying to do tricks and things. They entered into it with that in mind and then decided it wasn't for them. Hard to imagine how a total civilian would approach such a device.
  - apienx 4y ago
    "it should have enough reserve power to gracefully slow you down if the machine is in trouble." You're 100% right. It's an avoidable problem. But they choose not to for bragging-rights and top speeds and engineering resources. Chaotic innovation in the personal-transport space is better for us in the long term.
ziziyO 4y ago
Bug is a bit of a misnomer, it’s a constraint by the laws of physics due to the board having only a single wheel. If the board is being pushed beyond operating capacity, there is no graceful way to slow it down without the rider cooperating. If the rider never cooperates and the motor overheats, that’s when you see a nosedive.
- slt2021 4y ago
  then FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on both sides. Also called as Fangs bumper wheels. physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition!
  - ziziyO 4y ago
    But then it’s a fivewheel! /s
MrStonedOne 4y ago
alistairSH 4y ago
Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Skis balance just fine without power. A skier will slow gracefully due to friction. Likewise, mountain bikes don’t fall over when power (leg or EV) is removed. They coast to a stop. A rider can dangle their feet to slow and balance. A One-Wheel/electric unicycle doesn’t naturally balance when power is removed. During use, the rider is leaning forward and the board is fighting that forward fall by accelerating forward and pushing the board/deck back level. When power fails, the nose of the board/deck necessarily plunges into the ground, tossing the rider forward. “Training wheels” on front and back would mitigate this, but would look dorky, so nobody (that I’ve seen) builds them that way.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  They sell accessories for the onewheel that puts little wheels on the front and the back, they don't really work reportedly. Maybe down to the thing I can't stand about escooters ... the wheel diameter is just too small and too dense/inflexible. If a decent sized chunk of gravel is going to cause your wheel to just stop rolling .. well that's not great.
  - Auracle 4y ago
    I put some aftermarket “fangs” on and they bought me a second to fall correctly.

latchkey 4y ago

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Yes. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuries https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri... Edit: I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of injuries. Especially with random lockups. There are videos about the poor construction, lockups, dangerous to self repair, etc. I found them when I started to look into buying one of these myself. Here is a reddit thread full of stories... https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_about_our_one_wheel_injuries/ https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_... Old, but Casey Neistat broke his collar bone... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI Lawsuit over wrongful death: https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit Nosedives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg Electronic issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0 Onewheel CEO SBF moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14

shockeychap 4y ago
This is not a link to a video describing a specific bug in the product. It's just a link to a search of "onewheel injuries" in YouTube, which presents a variety of videos detailing all manner of injuries that come from operator error and the inherent dangers of OneWheel operation. Try searching for "mountain bike injuries" and see what you get. Is there anything else? (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this confirmed?)
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this confirmed?) The first few seconds of this 2-year-old video shows it happening to Adam Savage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY What I'm finding after some light digging is that this "nosedive" problem has seemingly been injuring people for years. There's apparently even a small ecosystem of add-on products that purport to address it: https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense
  - the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
    > Using an intuitive redline display, the power gauge lets you know at a glance how much power the motor has left before a nosedive is imminent. What a quote.
  - Gatsky 4y ago
    That Adam Savage footage… Ok, thanks, never getting on one of these things. It is just a flawed concept basically.
Zak 4y ago
These search results do not appear to describe a flaw in the product. I watched a bit from one of the crash compilations and would describe every crash I saw as rider error. Many of them were attempting stunts, holding cameras while riding, or both. It may be easy to make such errors, but the same could be said of a unicycle, skateboard, BMX bike, or any of many other vehicles generally seen as safe enough for sale to the public.
- Supermancho 4y ago
  Not even 4 deaths a year, I have to say this is still a magnitude safer than swimming or skiing. It's dangerous to some degree, but enough for a recall seems over the top. Just the statement itself seems unusually targeted. First they came for the magnets, now the uniboards?
  - fn-mote 4y ago
    > Not even 4 deaths a year, I have to say this is still a magnitude safer than swimming or skiing. The only meaningful comparison would be a _rate_, not total number of injuries. Google says there are 40 skiing deaths per year in the US. It would be very easy to believe there are 100x more people skiing than uniboarding. This passes my back of the envelope test for "dangerous". If you've got better numbers, I'll listen.
    - Zak 4y ago
      My take on it is that if it's no more dangerous than the term "20+ MPH electrically-driven skateboard/unicycle hybrid" sounds, then it's perfectly fine to market it to adults. That sounds kind of dangerous to me. If I was going to ride one, I'd be sure I was wearing a helmet, knee pads, and elbow pads. I'd ride it in a very controlled space free of obstacles, uneven surfaces, and unpredictable road users until I mastered controlling it. I'd step up that safety gear a notch if I was attempting stunts. Some people aren't that careful, but as long as they're injuring themselves rather than others, it does not strike me as grounds for a recall. Edit: the wheel locking randomly or unpredictably certainly would be grounds for a recall, but the linked Youtube search doesn't show that, at least not without watching a couple hours of video.

advisedwang 4y ago

> Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous activity? The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous generally, but a specific product flaw.

nomel 4y ago
I don't think this is what's happening, at all. Here's a deep dive into what's actually happening, which is people ignoring built in safety, overpowering the motors ability to keep them upright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI The motor is at maximum power and speed when this happens.
- chabons 4y ago
  This video is directly produced by Onewheel's marketing department. It does certainly highlight one way user error can lead to injury on a Onewheel, but I don't think this is a credible refutation of the idea that there may be a flaw in the product.
- mcrady 4y ago
  I had a onewheel that would occasionally just stop. The first time I was going at 15 mph and fortunately came away with only a few scrapes. I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation which I don't know that I fully believe: Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They found that the power button had broken which led to damage to the controller circuit board. Both have been replaced under warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op testings it was picked up by FedEx!
- ccakes 4y ago
  Admittedly a marketing video but still a pretty cool deep-dive by the company - great watch!
- contravariant 4y ago
  I see, assuming that is what's happening here I'm still not entirely certain if this is usage error or a design fault. There's two things I have my doubts about. Firstly, sure pushback seems like it is noticeable but is it really instinctual to push less when something starts pushing back? A counterforce is good at preventing someone from moving something, but I'm not too sure if it's good at preventing them from trying. Secondly, I have my doubts about a system of transportation that cannot slow down without throwing off its rider. I mean the automatic balancing is a fun trick, but it's somewhat concerning when the only response it has in case of problems of insufficient power is to accelerate even more and when that doesn't work it does a nose dive resulting in what looks like a sudden stop.

aksss 4y ago

When the GT was released, there was a problem with "ghosting", which meant the board would keep moving after the rider had gotten off the board. This was traced to a faulty sensor in the foot pad, for which Future Motion eventually did issue a recall and will replace that gen foot pad at no add'l cost. It affected a minority of the boards, and the biggest concern was the board crashing into a pedestrian's ankle or smashing into traffic or parked cars. It was certainly a concern, but in no way something that could reasonably be expected to cause death or injury to the rider. That recall from FM of the footpad was done this summer. There is no open issue that I'm aware of with the board. Using them is inherently risky though, like downhill biking or snowboarding.

Exuma 4y ago

I can only imagine it's about the feature where it "warns" you when you are leaning too far, which you can choose to ignore. I'm assuming most injuries are from people pushing the angle way too hard

apienx 4y ago

"I don't understand why now?" Bureaucratic inefficiencies. "Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this injury/death?" There was an issue that the community referred to as "ghosting" whereby the board got a bit out of control. This was fixed with a firmware update. The boards also nosedive when approaching top speed. Some people consider that a bug, but it's just users neglecting instructions and warnings.

TheCondor 4y ago
I know a couple of people injured by the so-called non-bug and they have both dumped their one wheels and feel duped about it. I hate to think that the whole idea is fatally flawed, but it should have enough reserve power to gracefully slow you down if the machine is in trouble. They guys I know, one is a very talented board sporter and broke his collarbone. He takes safety pretty seriously and felt like there was no warning and it just cut out on him. North of 10mph? That's a pretty good tumble for most people, you might not just pop up after it. In the case of my friends, they knew they were going to get hurt, they were setting up ramps and trying to do tricks and things. They entered into it with that in mind and then decided it wasn't for them. Hard to imagine how a total civilian would approach such a device.
- apienx 4y ago
  "it should have enough reserve power to gracefully slow you down if the machine is in trouble." You're 100% right. It's an avoidable problem. But they choose not to for bragging-rights and top speeds and engineering resources. Chaotic innovation in the personal-transport space is better for us in the long term.

ziziyO 4y ago

Bug is a bit of a misnomer, it’s a constraint by the laws of physics due to the board having only a single wheel. If the board is being pushed beyond operating capacity, there is no graceful way to slow it down without the rider cooperating. If the rider never cooperates and the motor overheats, that’s when you see a nosedive.

slt2021 4y ago
then FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on both sides. Also called as Fangs bumper wheels. physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition!
- ziziyO 4y ago
  But then it’s a fivewheel! /s

MrStonedOne 4y ago

alistairSH 4y ago

Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective activities are dangerous? Skis balance just fine without power. A skier will slow gracefully due to friction. Likewise, mountain bikes don’t fall over when power (leg or EV) is removed. They coast to a stop. A rider can dangle their feet to slow and balance. A One-Wheel/electric unicycle doesn’t naturally balance when power is removed. During use, the rider is leaning forward and the board is fighting that forward fall by accelerating forward and pushing the board/deck back level. When power fails, the nose of the board/deck necessarily plunges into the ground, tossing the rider forward. “Training wheels” on front and back would mitigate this, but would look dorky, so nobody (that I’ve seen) builds them that way.

sleepybrett 4y ago
They sell accessories for the onewheel that puts little wheels on the front and the back, they don't really work reportedly. Maybe down to the thing I can't stand about escooters ... the wheel diameter is just too small and too dense/inflexible. If a decent sized chunk of gravel is going to cause your wheel to just stop rolling .. well that's not great.
- Auracle 4y ago
  I put some aftermarket “fangs” on and they bought me a second to fall correctly.