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They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because th

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

gonehome 4y ago
Isn't that their whole game? If you're going to fly them you should know it. They have the cheapest fares, but they do that by upselling everything and any mistake will be expensive. If that's worth it to you (and sometimes the cost difference is big enough for it to be worth it imo) then it can be a reasonable tradeoff. Flying an extreme lost cost airline that's entire existence is predicated on this model and expecting them to act contrary to that is confusing to me.
- Benjammer 4y ago
  A large chunk of people think that every product should be certified as 100% effective and that just being able to read two numbers and see which one is the smaller number is the absolute maximum amount of work that should be required to be an informed customer of any product on the planet. Any defect in the product is "a scam," yet, anyone who pays anything more than the absolute minimum viable option is a total sucker. It's honestly a very strange way to view the world that I don't really understand. My source is that my mother is an ardent member of this group of peole. I find that it mostly just leads to the opportunity to complain about everything and build up a complex around you being "slighted" by the universe all the time.
  - jimbokun 4y ago
    I see your point, but also believe markets of all kinds function better where there is price transparency and it's easy to see what you get for what you're paying, as early in the process as possible. Makes for a more efficient economy that benefits everyone, even the producers in the long run.
  - everforward 4y ago
    I don't think it should (or can) be that simple, but I also think some of these airlines intentionally hide that "standard" services aren't included, and sometimes even the pricing. E.g. [1]. I had no idea the pricing of carry-ons for Frontier changed depending on when/where you add it. It also makes it hard to compare prices across airlines, because I have to remember which charge for luggage and how much, so I can add it to the cost when I use flight finders. Sometimes the changes are also something I wouldn't think about. E.g. I flew Southwest recently and had no idea that "open seating" was even a thing to check for. I can see how people who don't fly regularly get confused. I fly a couple times a year and get surprised, I can't imagine the bewilderment of someone who flies once every 5 or 10 years.
pxx 4y ago
I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.
- elmomle 4y ago
  So you only get to sit with your loved ones if you have enough money? That's not a world I want to have any part in.
  - pxx 4y ago
    You only get to fly to see your loved ones if you have enough money too. Ancillary revenue like seat assignment fees makes it so that more people can afford to see their loved ones.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      This is only true if those seat assignment charges actually result in significantly lower ticket prices for everyone else, which is far from guaranteed.
      - pxx 4y ago
        It's not guaranteed, but competition solves this problem, and competition has empirically been particularly effective in the airline industry. There is a very good reason people fly Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Sun Country.
      - cool_dude85 4y ago
        No, you see, if they don't lower costs to the point of making no profit, then they will go out of business. Thats called competition and it's why no companies are able to buy shares back or pay dividends.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I'm not a fan of a lot of the fees that airlines impose--but then I also don't fly budget airlines or buy the cheapest tickets. Personally I'd probably be happier with a more premium flying experience and somewhat higher ticket prices--though not enough to routinely upgrade to business class. And I'm sure there are many people for whom air travel over Christmas to visit family is something of a luxury appreciate being able to spend less money.
infotogivenm 4y ago
Personally I’ve always seen them allow you to get up and relocate as soon as cabin doors closes. But yea, you didn’t pay for a seat assignment so you might get stuck where-ever. They’re pretty clear about this… Flown Frontier many dozens of times, since I usually travel alone with just a backpack. It’s probably saved me $5-10k in my adult life. Very often it will be $150+ less than the next cheapest option.
- jghn 4y ago
  Speaking of relocating, I don't love having to pay to pick one's seat, but IMO the larger problem are the customers who choose to don't pay and assume they can bully other passengers into moving. Yeah it sucks you have to pay for the privilege, but it's not the other passenger's responsibility to handle it for you.
fknorangesite 4y ago
> they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together Airline seats are also assigned based on weight distribution. It's not just malice and greed.
qazxcvbnmlp 4y ago
Right now American seats basic economy in the middle seats and main in isle or windows. The system will try and seat family’s together if they are on the same reservation and the kids are under 15. So you’re best to pay for seats if you want to be together. However, if you pay for seats and they change your flight on you, those seats are ‘lost and you need to call for a refund.

gonehome 4y ago

Isn't that their whole game? If you're going to fly them you should know it. They have the cheapest fares, but they do that by upselling everything and any mistake will be expensive. If that's worth it to you (and sometimes the cost difference is big enough for it to be worth it imo) then it can be a reasonable tradeoff. Flying an extreme lost cost airline that's entire existence is predicated on this model and expecting them to act contrary to that is confusing to me.

Benjammer 4y ago
A large chunk of people think that every product should be certified as 100% effective and that just being able to read two numbers and see which one is the smaller number is the absolute maximum amount of work that should be required to be an informed customer of any product on the planet. Any defect in the product is "a scam," yet, anyone who pays anything more than the absolute minimum viable option is a total sucker. It's honestly a very strange way to view the world that I don't really understand. My source is that my mother is an ardent member of this group of peole. I find that it mostly just leads to the opportunity to complain about everything and build up a complex around you being "slighted" by the universe all the time.
- jimbokun 4y ago
  I see your point, but also believe markets of all kinds function better where there is price transparency and it's easy to see what you get for what you're paying, as early in the process as possible. Makes for a more efficient economy that benefits everyone, even the producers in the long run.
- everforward 4y ago
  I don't think it should (or can) be that simple, but I also think some of these airlines intentionally hide that "standard" services aren't included, and sometimes even the pricing. E.g. [1]. I had no idea the pricing of carry-ons for Frontier changed depending on when/where you add it. It also makes it hard to compare prices across airlines, because I have to remember which charge for luggage and how much, so I can add it to the cost when I use flight finders. Sometimes the changes are also something I wouldn't think about. E.g. I flew Southwest recently and had no idea that "open seating" was even a thing to check for. I can see how people who don't fly regularly get confused. I fly a couple times a year and get surprised, I can't imagine the bewilderment of someone who flies once every 5 or 10 years.

pxx 4y ago

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

elmomle 4y ago
So you only get to sit with your loved ones if you have enough money? That's not a world I want to have any part in.
- pxx 4y ago
  You only get to fly to see your loved ones if you have enough money too. Ancillary revenue like seat assignment fees makes it so that more people can afford to see their loved ones.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    This is only true if those seat assignment charges actually result in significantly lower ticket prices for everyone else, which is far from guaranteed.
    - pxx 4y ago
      It's not guaranteed, but competition solves this problem, and competition has empirically been particularly effective in the airline industry. There is a very good reason people fly Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Sun Country.
    - cool_dude85 4y ago
      No, you see, if they don't lower costs to the point of making no profit, then they will go out of business. Thats called competition and it's why no companies are able to buy shares back or pay dividends.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I'm not a fan of a lot of the fees that airlines impose--but then I also don't fly budget airlines or buy the cheapest tickets. Personally I'd probably be happier with a more premium flying experience and somewhat higher ticket prices--though not enough to routinely upgrade to business class. And I'm sure there are many people for whom air travel over Christmas to visit family is something of a luxury appreciate being able to spend less money.

infotogivenm 4y ago

Personally I’ve always seen them allow you to get up and relocate as soon as cabin doors closes. But yea, you didn’t pay for a seat assignment so you might get stuck where-ever. They’re pretty clear about this… Flown Frontier many dozens of times, since I usually travel alone with just a backpack. It’s probably saved me $5-10k in my adult life. Very often it will be $150+ less than the next cheapest option.

jghn 4y ago
Speaking of relocating, I don't love having to pay to pick one's seat, but IMO the larger problem are the customers who choose to don't pay and assume they can bully other passengers into moving. Yeah it sucks you have to pay for the privilege, but it's not the other passenger's responsibility to handle it for you.

fknorangesite 4y ago

> they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together Airline seats are also assigned based on weight distribution. It's not just malice and greed.

qazxcvbnmlp 4y ago

Right now American seats basic economy in the middle seats and main in isle or windows. The system will try and seat family’s together if they are on the same reservation and the kids are under 15. So you’re best to pay for seats if you want to be together. However, if you pay for seats and they change your flight on you, those seats are ‘lost and you need to call for a refund.