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Looks like Psychologists came up with something as complicated as the human mind. I found this very strange: Symptom: (under Oxymorons) (41) Observable symptom

Looks like Psychologists came up with something as complicated as the human mind. I found this very strange: Symptom: (under Oxymorons) (41) Observable symptom. This term, which appears in nearly 700 manuscripts according to Google Scholar, conflates signs with symptoms. Signs are observable features of a disorder; symptoms are unobservable features of a disorder that can only be reported by patients (Lilienfeld et al., 2013; Kraft and Keeley, 2015). Symptoms are by definition unobservable. I am surprised that English medicine seems to differentiate observability here since I never heard it expressed in that way. Seems to make sense to differentiate though, psychologists probably know best why this data maybe needs a different evaluation.

tantalor 4y ago
This has nothing to do with psychology. It's standard terminology used in medicine. > Symptoms cannot be seen and do not show up on medical tests. Some examples of symptoms are headache, fatigue, nausea, and pain. https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/symptom https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-term...
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Yes, I meant it in contrast to other languages and general language usage.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- adrian_b 4y ago
  It is a standard terminology that is recent and only in English. It has nothing to do with the original meanings of the words "symptom" and "sign" in English and other languages (where "symptom" is any sign of a disease, while "sign" is any sign of anything). The standard medical terminology in other languages is "subjective symptoms" and "objective symptoms". In my opinion, whoever has chosen these artificial and arbitrary meanings for the words "symptom" and "sign", both words being widespread in many European languages, where they are used with their old meanings, has made a very bad choice. Someone who wants new words should invent them, not change the traditional meanings of other words. I wonder if this "sign" and "symptom" terminology is common for British English and American English, or it is used only in American English.
  - twic 4y ago
    At least one NHS content editor uses "symptom" to mean objective symptoms [1]: > Symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) in adults can include: > - a high temperature or shivering (chills) – a high temperature means you feel hot to touch on your chest or back (you do not need to measure your temperature) As do, slightly implicitly, all four of the UK chief medical officers [2]: > The individual’s households should also self-isolate for 14 days as per the current guidelines and the individual should stay at home for 7 days, or longer if they still have symptoms other than cough or loss of sense of smell. [1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/main-symptoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-an-update-to-coronavirus-symptoms-18-may-2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chi...
    - jcl 4y ago
      True, but both of those examples were written for the general public, where the authors might intentionally be using “symptom” in its colloquial sense to be better understood. So it’s hard to draw conclusions about how the same authors would use “symptom” when writing for a medical audience.
  - tantalor 4y ago
    Kind of confused by what you mean "in other languages" and then give examples in English. What are these other languages and words? If you say the meaning of these words are different in other languages, then aren't you translating them incorrectly? > Someone who wants new words should invent them, not change the traditional meanings of other words. Language changes over time. The meaning of words can change. Definitions aren't etched into stone.
    - Jorengarenar 4y ago
      >What are these other languages and words? From what I see from quick search word "symptom" as written here is also present in Czech, Danish, German, Norwegian, Polish and Swedish. Many other languages has variations (e.g. French's "symptôme" or Latvian's "simptoms").
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  That definition doesn't comport with my experience of British-English usage in UK. The definition you link is interesting, I'll quote it: >symptom >(SIMP-tum) >A physical or mental problem that a person experiences that may indicate a disease or condition. Symptoms cannot be seen and do not show up on medical tests. Some examples of symptoms are headache, fatigue, nausea, and pain. There seems to be an internal inconsistency in defining a symptom as physical if it's not objectively discernible; in what way is it physical? If you know it's a physical aspect of a patient then isn't it objectively observable and and so not a 'symptom' under this narrow definition? We're going to tie ourselves in knots here for sure.
denton-scratch 4y ago
/me not a MD, and from UK, not America. I have always understood symptoms to be the patient's reported experience; and signs to be observable manifestations of a condition. So yes, a symptom is by definition not observable, and therefore "oxymoron" is correct.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
The author is right from a medical perspective. There is a technical difference between observable signs and reported symptoms. Most people conflate both terms and there's nothing wrong with that but people in the field should understand the difference.

tantalor 4y ago

This has nothing to do with psychology. It's standard terminology used in medicine. > Symptoms cannot be seen and do not show up on medical tests. Some examples of symptoms are headache, fatigue, nausea, and pain. https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/symptom https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-term...

raxxorraxor 4y ago
Yes, I meant it in contrast to other languages and general language usage.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
adrian_b 4y ago
It is a standard terminology that is recent and only in English. It has nothing to do with the original meanings of the words "symptom" and "sign" in English and other languages (where "symptom" is any sign of a disease, while "sign" is any sign of anything). The standard medical terminology in other languages is "subjective symptoms" and "objective symptoms". In my opinion, whoever has chosen these artificial and arbitrary meanings for the words "symptom" and "sign", both words being widespread in many European languages, where they are used with their old meanings, has made a very bad choice. Someone who wants new words should invent them, not change the traditional meanings of other words. I wonder if this "sign" and "symptom" terminology is common for British English and American English, or it is used only in American English.
- twic 4y ago
  At least one NHS content editor uses "symptom" to mean objective symptoms [1]: > Symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) in adults can include: > - a high temperature or shivering (chills) – a high temperature means you feel hot to touch on your chest or back (you do not need to measure your temperature) As do, slightly implicitly, all four of the UK chief medical officers [2]: > The individual’s households should also self-isolate for 14 days as per the current guidelines and the individual should stay at home for 7 days, or longer if they still have symptoms other than cough or loss of sense of smell. [1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/main-symptoms/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-an-update-to-coronavirus-symptoms-18-may-2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-uk-chi...
  - jcl 4y ago
    True, but both of those examples were written for the general public, where the authors might intentionally be using “symptom” in its colloquial sense to be better understood. So it’s hard to draw conclusions about how the same authors would use “symptom” when writing for a medical audience.
- tantalor 4y ago
  Kind of confused by what you mean "in other languages" and then give examples in English. What are these other languages and words? If you say the meaning of these words are different in other languages, then aren't you translating them incorrectly? > Someone who wants new words should invent them, not change the traditional meanings of other words. Language changes over time. The meaning of words can change. Definitions aren't etched into stone.
  - Jorengarenar 4y ago
    >What are these other languages and words? From what I see from quick search word "symptom" as written here is also present in Czech, Danish, German, Norwegian, Polish and Swedish. Many other languages has variations (e.g. French's "symptôme" or Latvian's "simptoms").
pbhjpbhj 4y ago
That definition doesn't comport with my experience of British-English usage in UK. The definition you link is interesting, I'll quote it: >symptom >(SIMP-tum) >A physical or mental problem that a person experiences that may indicate a disease or condition. Symptoms cannot be seen and do not show up on medical tests. Some examples of symptoms are headache, fatigue, nausea, and pain. There seems to be an internal inconsistency in defining a symptom as physical if it's not objectively discernible; in what way is it physical? If you know it's a physical aspect of a patient then isn't it objectively observable and and so not a 'symptom' under this narrow definition? We're going to tie ourselves in knots here for sure.

denton-scratch 4y ago

/me not a MD, and from UK, not America. I have always understood symptoms to be the patient's reported experience; and signs to be observable manifestations of a condition. So yes, a symptom is by definition not observable, and therefore "oxymoron" is correct.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

The author is right from a medical perspective. There is a technical difference between observable signs and reported symptoms. Most people conflate both terms and there's nothing wrong with that but people in the field should understand the difference.