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Admittedly the SBF debacle is the first time I’ve heard of EA, but I don’t think it’s surprising that it’s attracted such characters. Frankly it strikes me as

Admittedly the SBF debacle is the first time I’ve heard of EA, but I don’t think it’s surprising that it’s attracted such characters. Frankly it strikes me as just sketchy moral accounting, where you can be as greedy or exploitative as you want to be as long as you’re contributing to something that you can justify as having a higher “moral score”, but in the end you’re doing all the calculations and all the numbers are made up.

ithkuil 4y ago
... and that's bad for the actual altruistic causes because? Yes there are such people. I don't think they would be less greedy and exploitative if they didn't have a way to feel better about it. They would find another way to feel better, perhaps one that doesn't have the side effect of actually help out random people that would benefit from that help.
- Bukhmanizer 4y ago
  > and that's bad for the actual altruistic causes because Because if all the numbers are made up, you don’t actually know what is an “altruistic” choice. You can say, gamble with other peoples money, and justify it by donating 10% of the returns to charity. And if the math works out in your head, it’s all good. > Yes there are such people. I don't think they would be less greedy and exploitative if they didn't have a way to feel better about it. Lol, we’re arguing about a moral philosophy here, and your argument is that anything bad that people do, keeping in line with the philosophy is irrelevant? It’s also not that “there are such people”. I’m saying that EA will disproportionately attract the greedy because fundamentally it argues that you can buy your way into altruism. It’s the Catholic Church selling indulgences for the 21st century.
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    are you saying that if it weren't for EA, the greedy people who it attracts would behave better because they wouldn't have a way to wash their sins?
    - fnordian_slip 4y ago
      Maybe not all of them, but since a lot of recruiting is done at universities, where people are in their formative years, I believe the previous poster does have a point. There are probably quite a few people just who want to do good, and get suckered into longtermism which results in them doing AI research instead. You can actually see some of them in the EA forums, where they discuss this struggle. Of course, as a lot of things surrounding EA, this is ironically quite hard to quantify ;) Btw. please don't take it as an attack on EA as a concept, I believe that it has much to give provided it is not mixed with too much pseudo long-term thinking as described in the article, which in the end has way too much uncertainty in it for my taste.

ithkuil 4y ago

... and that's bad for the actual altruistic causes because? Yes there are such people. I don't think they would be less greedy and exploitative if they didn't have a way to feel better about it. They would find another way to feel better, perhaps one that doesn't have the side effect of actually help out random people that would benefit from that help.

Bukhmanizer 4y ago
> and that's bad for the actual altruistic causes because Because if all the numbers are made up, you don’t actually know what is an “altruistic” choice. You can say, gamble with other peoples money, and justify it by donating 10% of the returns to charity. And if the math works out in your head, it’s all good. > Yes there are such people. I don't think they would be less greedy and exploitative if they didn't have a way to feel better about it. Lol, we’re arguing about a moral philosophy here, and your argument is that anything bad that people do, keeping in line with the philosophy is irrelevant? It’s also not that “there are such people”. I’m saying that EA will disproportionately attract the greedy because fundamentally it argues that you can buy your way into altruism. It’s the Catholic Church selling indulgences for the 21st century.
- ithkuil 4y ago
  are you saying that if it weren't for EA, the greedy people who it attracts would behave better because they wouldn't have a way to wash their sins?
  - fnordian_slip 4y ago
    Maybe not all of them, but since a lot of recruiting is done at universities, where people are in their formative years, I believe the previous poster does have a point. There are probably quite a few people just who want to do good, and get suckered into longtermism which results in them doing AI research instead. You can actually see some of them in the EA forums, where they discuss this struggle. Of course, as a lot of things surrounding EA, this is ironically quite hard to quantify ;) Btw. please don't take it as an attack on EA as a concept, I believe that it has much to give provided it is not mixed with too much pseudo long-term thinking as described in the article, which in the end has way too much uncertainty in it for my taste.