4 ms·

> But when they illegally cover their license plate so they can avoid tolls, evade red-light cameras and speed cameras, and generally put others at risk, we say

by jmull 4y ago

> But when they illegally cover their license plate so they can avoid tolls, evade red-light cameras and speed cameras, and generally put others at risk, we say go for it. Nope. No. Don't. It's bad to obscure your license plate. It's bad to vandalize other people's cars. Both of these are true.

stfp 4y ago
And by vandalize you mean touch?
- foxes 4y ago
  >Drivers casually slaughtering countless pedestrians, cyclists; spewing damaging noise and pollution; car focused design ruining cities and society: Drivers of HN sleep. >Person flicks a bit of plastic obscuring a license plate: WTF thats a REdLine stop that vandal!!!
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    Surely this can't be that difficult to comprehend. You can't grant yourself a pass to damage another person's property because of what you feel they intended to use it for, because of what you believe its value should be, because you don't like that they own or use cars, or because you have linked them to casually slaughtering countless people, the ruination of cities and destruction of society. There are very limited circumstances in which you may take the law into your own hands. Being angry is not one of them.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Yes you can and you should. You like too many others are happy to sit idly by and watch the decay of society but some people actually have ethics and care more about keeping the community safe over “muh private property”.
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        Actually no that's incorrect, you can not give yourself a pass. You can attempt to cause damage of course, but surely even you can't be surprised with the consequences that might come from that. And a lot of people think they have the correct ethics and idea of what is needed to keep communities safe, and believe they should be able to take the law into their own hands. I don't know if you'd be very happy with the outcome of everybody actually doing that.
        Gigachad 4y ago
        Of course I'm not saying that you can legally do whatever you want. But ethically you very well can stop someone committing a serious crime. The guy in the article is an outstanding citizen for taking on personal risk to save others.
      - sorwin 4y ago
        Cool, hold up, I dont like that Biden/Trump flag on your property because I believe he hasnt upheld his promises, and he's a shit president. He did do and so. I'm going to rip it off, doing my civil duty, right? Not like there are any laws preventing me from doing it it. Get off your high horse.
    - foxes 4y ago
      Oh yes of course, the immutable, unchanging law, a divine commandment, with only a single interpretation decides what’s ethical, good and just.
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        Please learn to express yourself in a mature and coherent way. This isn't Twitter.
dasil003 4y ago
There is no gray area. The world is black and white.
kibwen 4y ago
Removing a piece of plastic whose only purpose is to obscure the license plate is not vandalism. If the drivers of these cars would like to learn what vandalism actually is, then I can think of plenty of people who are happy to demonstrate.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Seems similar to civil disobedience. Violating the law as a statement that the law is stupid.
- jmull 4y ago
  > ...is not vandalism It is. It definitely is. I get that it's annoying to see someone getting away with something. But that doesn't make it your right to address it however you see fit. The point I'm trying to get across is that even though the other guy is wrong, that doesn't make it alright for you to do whatever you want in response. The lawyer is doxxing the guy too. People really need to get a perspective on this kind of thing.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    Amusingly, I would counter that the people who think this is vandalism are the ones who are lacking in perspective.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      It's not a matter of perspective, it's a matter of law. Being morally in the right doesn't make it not vandalism. But by all means, do it anyway. I certainly wouldn't lift a finger to stop you.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    Why are you making these outlandish claims - of course it is not. You do not even pass intent.
  - crote 4y ago
    Or it is an act of civil service. Driving with an obscured license plate is illegal and could get someone in real trouble. Obviously nobody would want to intentionally break that law. By removing such an unintentional obstruction they are doing the owner of the vehicle a favor - provided it doesn't damage the car itself, of course. Similarly, if you see someone throwing trash out of their car, picking it up and depositing it in a trash can does not count as theft. Removing a third-party sticker from a traffic sign does not count as damaging it.
Gigachad 4y ago
It's your moral duty to do something about these cars. The police are complicit in drivers killing people. Pulling the plastic off is the least you should do.
- sorwin 4y ago
  No, it is not. This is the purpose of a government. If you dont like it, vote it away. Don't go around breaking other people's property because you don't like what they have. It's illegal.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Most people aren’t mindless drones under complete control by the government. You can and should break the law when it’s the right thing to do. Manage your personal risk of course but in this case it seems very likely the guy in the article will win in the end.
    - sorwin 4y ago
      Right thing to do according to who, you? Why do you get to decide what is right and wrong without a court of law? I thought we outlawed that ages ago.
- jmull 4y ago
  > drivers killing people That seems like a wild stretch... I guess you mean people with obscured plates feel more free to speed and/or drive dangerously, which will eventually lead to accidents and deaths? That's rather attenuated to justify vandalizing someone's car. But even to the extent that's true, snapping off plastic bits obscuring license plates does nothing to help. The driver will either be unaware the bit was snapped off, in which case they will drive just as dangerously as before, or they will notice, and can simply replace the obscuring plastic piece, and continue to drive as dangerously as before. It's a dangerous path to invent arbitrary moral justifications to do whatever you want. Let's say someone sees you pulling pieces off other people's cars. They might decide they have a moral right and duty to punish you. Say, subdue you and chop a finger off -- your just desert for laying a finger on other people's property. Does that sound good to you?
stefan_ 4y ago
This is the mentality that sells cars for >$100k - peoples whole ego is locked up in these things. Mate, we are all just trying to get somewhere safely.

by jmull 4y ago

stfp 4y ago

And by vandalize you mean touch?

foxes 4y ago
>Drivers casually slaughtering countless pedestrians, cyclists; spewing damaging noise and pollution; car focused design ruining cities and society: Drivers of HN sleep. >Person flicks a bit of plastic obscuring a license plate: WTF thats a REdLine stop that vandal!!!
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  Surely this can't be that difficult to comprehend. You can't grant yourself a pass to damage another person's property because of what you feel they intended to use it for, because of what you believe its value should be, because you don't like that they own or use cars, or because you have linked them to casually slaughtering countless people, the ruination of cities and destruction of society. There are very limited circumstances in which you may take the law into your own hands. Being angry is not one of them.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Yes you can and you should. You like too many others are happy to sit idly by and watch the decay of society but some people actually have ethics and care more about keeping the community safe over “muh private property”.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      Actually no that's incorrect, you can not give yourself a pass. You can attempt to cause damage of course, but surely even you can't be surprised with the consequences that might come from that. And a lot of people think they have the correct ethics and idea of what is needed to keep communities safe, and believe they should be able to take the law into their own hands. I don't know if you'd be very happy with the outcome of everybody actually doing that.
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        Of course I'm not saying that you can legally do whatever you want. But ethically you very well can stop someone committing a serious crime. The guy in the article is an outstanding citizen for taking on personal risk to save others.
    - sorwin 4y ago
      Cool, hold up, I dont like that Biden/Trump flag on your property because I believe he hasnt upheld his promises, and he's a shit president. He did do and so. I'm going to rip it off, doing my civil duty, right? Not like there are any laws preventing me from doing it it. Get off your high horse.
  - foxes 4y ago
    Oh yes of course, the immutable, unchanging law, a divine commandment, with only a single interpretation decides what’s ethical, good and just.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      Please learn to express yourself in a mature and coherent way. This isn't Twitter.

dasil003 4y ago

There is no gray area. The world is black and white.

kibwen 4y ago

Removing a piece of plastic whose only purpose is to obscure the license plate is not vandalism. If the drivers of these cars would like to learn what vandalism actually is, then I can think of plenty of people who are happy to demonstrate.

andrewflnr 4y ago
Seems similar to civil disobedience. Violating the law as a statement that the law is stupid.
jmull 4y ago
> ...is not vandalism It is. It definitely is. I get that it's annoying to see someone getting away with something. But that doesn't make it your right to address it however you see fit. The point I'm trying to get across is that even though the other guy is wrong, that doesn't make it alright for you to do whatever you want in response. The lawyer is doxxing the guy too. People really need to get a perspective on this kind of thing.
- kibwen 4y ago
  Amusingly, I would counter that the people who think this is vandalism are the ones who are lacking in perspective.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    It's not a matter of perspective, it's a matter of law. Being morally in the right doesn't make it not vandalism. But by all means, do it anyway. I certainly wouldn't lift a finger to stop you.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  Why are you making these outlandish claims - of course it is not. You do not even pass intent.
- crote 4y ago
  Or it is an act of civil service. Driving with an obscured license plate is illegal and could get someone in real trouble. Obviously nobody would want to intentionally break that law. By removing such an unintentional obstruction they are doing the owner of the vehicle a favor - provided it doesn't damage the car itself, of course. Similarly, if you see someone throwing trash out of their car, picking it up and depositing it in a trash can does not count as theft. Removing a third-party sticker from a traffic sign does not count as damaging it.

Gigachad 4y ago

It's your moral duty to do something about these cars. The police are complicit in drivers killing people. Pulling the plastic off is the least you should do.

sorwin 4y ago
No, it is not. This is the purpose of a government. If you dont like it, vote it away. Don't go around breaking other people's property because you don't like what they have. It's illegal.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Most people aren’t mindless drones under complete control by the government. You can and should break the law when it’s the right thing to do. Manage your personal risk of course but in this case it seems very likely the guy in the article will win in the end.
  - sorwin 4y ago
    Right thing to do according to who, you? Why do you get to decide what is right and wrong without a court of law? I thought we outlawed that ages ago.
jmull 4y ago
> drivers killing people That seems like a wild stretch... I guess you mean people with obscured plates feel more free to speed and/or drive dangerously, which will eventually lead to accidents and deaths? That's rather attenuated to justify vandalizing someone's car. But even to the extent that's true, snapping off plastic bits obscuring license plates does nothing to help. The driver will either be unaware the bit was snapped off, in which case they will drive just as dangerously as before, or they will notice, and can simply replace the obscuring plastic piece, and continue to drive as dangerously as before. It's a dangerous path to invent arbitrary moral justifications to do whatever you want. Let's say someone sees you pulling pieces off other people's cars. They might decide they have a moral right and duty to punish you. Say, subdue you and chop a finger off -- your just desert for laying a finger on other people's property. Does that sound good to you?

stefan_ 4y ago

This is the mentality that sells cars for >$100k - peoples whole ego is locked up in these things. Mate, we are all just trying to get somewhere safely.