6 ms·

Not a big fan of FB as a company, but I think their open source work is pretty impressive. Various other large companies have the problem of giant monorepos tha

by fhd2 4y ago

Not a big fan of FB as a company, but I think their open source work is pretty impressive. Various other large companies have the problem of giant monorepos that they constantly need to onboard new developers to, but I can't think of anyone other than FB who consistently released their solutions. Sure, most people are probably fine with Git once they learned it and if they only work with small to mid sized code bases (like me). But I'm still happy Sapling is out there, I might use it or learn from it if I ever run into the problems it solves.

bogwog 4y ago
Facebook has a lot of interesting open source projects, but they tend to abandon them. As far as oss goes, I think Google is the best. As long as you don't mind dealing with 3 different custom build systems within the same codebase, their projects usually have dedicated teams maintaining them. ...and yes, I realize it's weird to say this considering Google is known for abandoning things. Maybe it's just coincidence that I've run into more abandonware from FB than Google?
- loudmax 4y ago
  Fortunately, zstd seems to be in active development: https://github.com/facebook/zstd https://github.com/facebook/zstd As far as I can tell, most of zstd's development is still by Facebook employees, though not all of it. I tend to think zstd has enough traction that development would continue even if FB were to abandon the project.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
    This is probably a naive take, but I think of compression software as something that can be “done”. Unlikely to be a lot of code churn required for such a project to be relevant for a very long time.
    - unmole 4y ago
      Except for the fact that zstd has seen steady development and improved performance.
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    Regarding zstd: I've just discovered bzip3. https://github.com/kspalaiologos/bzip3 https://github.com/kspalaiologos/bzip3
  - Agingcoder 4y ago
    I think zstd is originally not a Facebook project. https://fastcompression.blogspot.com/2015/01/zstd-stronger-compression-algorithm.html?m=1 https://fastcompression.blogspot.com/2015/01/zstd-stronger-c... I believe Yann Collet, author of lz4, eventually went on to work for Facebook and finished it there.
    - Agingcoder 4y ago
      https://www.wired.com/2016/08/facebook-just-proved-isnt-hooli-silicon-valley/ https://www.wired.com/2016/08/facebook-just-proved-isnt-hool... He was hired by Facebook during the 2015 summer, but the zstd announcement is dated jan 2015.
  - chaxor 4y ago
    It's a part of the Linux kernel now, so I think it's pretty safe
- pjmlp 4y ago
  There is plenty of abandonware on the Android world. Whatever is cool at Google IO XYWX is already abandoned by the time we reach into Google IO XYWX + 1.
- anyfactor 4y ago
  How to not abondon a project? I would love to know that. This is my naive understanding. A for profit company open sources a project that they have been using and developing internally. The have built a philosophy and understanding of the project as they use and develop it. Most of their action regarding the project is that they must use it and they usually don't have any other options. Because the foundation is already laid the solution for its shortcoming is having just an understanding of them. Then you open source the project knowing that you have developed the project to it's completion. Now comes the OSS community. Either we request features that goes against the project philosophy or we don't want to get involved because we don't need to compromise and acknowledge the shortcomings because we have options. A good solution can be open sourcing projects that the org thinks isn't complete and needs further development without compromising security, philosophy and usability. Because if you have a list of things you need, you can ask the OSS community to fix those things rather then be critical of the foundation and philosophy.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    I like your post. It raises practical issues. Idea for projects not owned by mega-corps (half real, half fantasy): 1. Get the project added as a package to one or more major commercial Linux distros, e.g., RedHat, etc. 2. Grant commit access to one or more devs at the same Linux vendor. Allow them to do whatever they want. You might not like their direction, but it should survive. 3. Retire from the project whenever you like. 4. Also, you could post a note in README about retiring. If people want to add features, ask them to fork, or just grant them commit access and let them go wild.
- fastball 4y ago
  What has FB abandoned? Cuz there is an entire website[1] for Google. [1] https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
- fhd2 4y ago
  Good points. Personally, a lot of the appeal of open source is not so much about having free stuff, it's more about being able to learn from others. I learned a ton from the various engines Id Software released back in the day, but have no expectation that they maintain them. If it comes to stuff I actually want to _use_, I avoid projects backed by a single or a few companies - like Sapling. So from that angle, I'm not particularly impressed either.
- bmitc 4y ago
  > As far as oss goes, I think Google is the best. Better than Microsoft? I don't think I've ever been able to talk to a human at Google, whereas with Microsoft, I get feedback very quickly on issues and pull requests. Does Google even interact with people with open source? For example, I am using Skia via SkiaSharp, and the only place I know of to go for Skia help and issues is their Google Groups page, a website out of the 2000s. And very few seem to actually monitor the group. I'm not even really sure what Google does in open source. Even the things that are released to the public, like Skia, are well known to come with a huge amount of internal baggage. Whereas Microsoft has dozens of active projects on GitHub where you can talk directly with the people working on it at Microsoft.
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    This took me about 5 seconds to find: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/skia/issues/list https://bugs.chromium.org/p/skia/issues/list via https://skia.org/docs/dev/contrib/#report-bugs https://skia.org/docs/dev/contrib/#report-bugs. > I'm not even really sure what Google does in open source. Kubernetes (and a bunch of the offshoots), golang, a bunch of ML things, etc. It's just that many have independent foundations (CNCF) running them now to keep project management independent from a single company.
lawgimenez 4y ago
React Native hasn't yet reached v1.0. Or several critical issues hasn't been addressed yet as of now.
- yCombLinks 4y ago
  React Native, named after their open source project that is incredibly successful, widely used, completely reshaped the front end dev world, etc... Not sure if an offshoot of a world class project not gaining traction is a mark against them.
  - lawgimenez 4y ago
    It didn’t reshaped the mobile dev world though.
    - kridsdale2 4y ago
      In a way it has. Just not directly. Everyone is abandoning (for example on iOS) imperative style (Cocoa and UIKit) for React style (RxSwift, ComponentKit, SwiftUI). It's the biggest shift in native UI programming in more than a decade.
- MikusR 4y ago
  There recently was a thread here on the impact of layoffs on React. And apparently even Facebook has abandoned react for anything but internal projects.
  - coxley 4y ago
    > And apparently even Facebook has abandoned react for anything but internal projects I... what? Do you have a source or speculating to create fear of future support? I'm nearly certain this is untrue.
    - MikusR 4y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33534221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33534221
bootsmann 4y ago
Tbf I think this was just the learning curve for big tech companies. Google and Facebook face scalability problems other companies 5 years before anyone else so if they don't open source the solutions they come up with, the industry-standard that establishes itself 5 years later will not be compatible with their solution and they will have a hard time recruiting and keeping personnel for their own system.

by fhd2 4y ago

bogwog 4y ago

Facebook has a lot of interesting open source projects, but they tend to abandon them. As far as oss goes, I think Google is the best. As long as you don't mind dealing with 3 different custom build systems within the same codebase, their projects usually have dedicated teams maintaining them. ...and yes, I realize it's weird to say this considering Google is known for abandoning things. Maybe it's just coincidence that I've run into more abandonware from FB than Google?

loudmax 4y ago
Fortunately, zstd seems to be in active development: https://github.com/facebook/zstd https://github.com/facebook/zstd As far as I can tell, most of zstd's development is still by Facebook employees, though not all of it. I tend to think zstd has enough traction that development would continue even if FB were to abandon the project.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
  This is probably a naive take, but I think of compression software as something that can be “done”. Unlikely to be a lot of code churn required for such a project to be relevant for a very long time.
  - unmole 4y ago
    Except for the fact that zstd has seen steady development and improved performance.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  Regarding zstd: I've just discovered bzip3. https://github.com/kspalaiologos/bzip3 https://github.com/kspalaiologos/bzip3
- Agingcoder 4y ago
  I think zstd is originally not a Facebook project. https://fastcompression.blogspot.com/2015/01/zstd-stronger-compression-algorithm.html?m=1 https://fastcompression.blogspot.com/2015/01/zstd-stronger-c... I believe Yann Collet, author of lz4, eventually went on to work for Facebook and finished it there.
  - Agingcoder 4y ago
    https://www.wired.com/2016/08/facebook-just-proved-isnt-hooli-silicon-valley/ https://www.wired.com/2016/08/facebook-just-proved-isnt-hool... He was hired by Facebook during the 2015 summer, but the zstd announcement is dated jan 2015.
- chaxor 4y ago
  It's a part of the Linux kernel now, so I think it's pretty safe
pjmlp 4y ago
There is plenty of abandonware on the Android world. Whatever is cool at Google IO XYWX is already abandoned by the time we reach into Google IO XYWX + 1.
anyfactor 4y ago
How to not abondon a project? I would love to know that. This is my naive understanding. A for profit company open sources a project that they have been using and developing internally. The have built a philosophy and understanding of the project as they use and develop it. Most of their action regarding the project is that they must use it and they usually don't have any other options. Because the foundation is already laid the solution for its shortcoming is having just an understanding of them. Then you open source the project knowing that you have developed the project to it's completion. Now comes the OSS community. Either we request features that goes against the project philosophy or we don't want to get involved because we don't need to compromise and acknowledge the shortcomings because we have options. A good solution can be open sourcing projects that the org thinks isn't complete and needs further development without compromising security, philosophy and usability. Because if you have a list of things you need, you can ask the OSS community to fix those things rather then be critical of the foundation and philosophy.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  I like your post. It raises practical issues. Idea for projects not owned by mega-corps (half real, half fantasy): 1. Get the project added as a package to one or more major commercial Linux distros, e.g., RedHat, etc. 2. Grant commit access to one or more devs at the same Linux vendor. Allow them to do whatever they want. You might not like their direction, but it should survive. 3. Retire from the project whenever you like. 4. Also, you could post a note in README about retiring. If people want to add features, ask them to fork, or just grant them commit access and let them go wild.
fastball 4y ago
What has FB abandoned? Cuz there is an entire website[1] for Google. [1] https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
fhd2 4y ago
Good points. Personally, a lot of the appeal of open source is not so much about having free stuff, it's more about being able to learn from others. I learned a ton from the various engines Id Software released back in the day, but have no expectation that they maintain them. If it comes to stuff I actually want to _use_, I avoid projects backed by a single or a few companies - like Sapling. So from that angle, I'm not particularly impressed either.
bmitc 4y ago
> As far as oss goes, I think Google is the best. Better than Microsoft? I don't think I've ever been able to talk to a human at Google, whereas with Microsoft, I get feedback very quickly on issues and pull requests. Does Google even interact with people with open source? For example, I am using Skia via SkiaSharp, and the only place I know of to go for Skia help and issues is their Google Groups page, a website out of the 2000s. And very few seem to actually monitor the group. I'm not even really sure what Google does in open source. Even the things that are released to the public, like Skia, are well known to come with a huge amount of internal baggage. Whereas Microsoft has dozens of active projects on GitHub where you can talk directly with the people working on it at Microsoft.
- joshuamorton 4y ago
  This took me about 5 seconds to find: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/skia/issues/list https://bugs.chromium.org/p/skia/issues/list via https://skia.org/docs/dev/contrib/#report-bugs https://skia.org/docs/dev/contrib/#report-bugs. > I'm not even really sure what Google does in open source. Kubernetes (and a bunch of the offshoots), golang, a bunch of ML things, etc. It's just that many have independent foundations (CNCF) running them now to keep project management independent from a single company.

lawgimenez 4y ago

React Native hasn't yet reached v1.0. Or several critical issues hasn't been addressed yet as of now.

yCombLinks 4y ago
React Native, named after their open source project that is incredibly successful, widely used, completely reshaped the front end dev world, etc... Not sure if an offshoot of a world class project not gaining traction is a mark against them.
- lawgimenez 4y ago
  It didn’t reshaped the mobile dev world though.
  - kridsdale2 4y ago
    In a way it has. Just not directly. Everyone is abandoning (for example on iOS) imperative style (Cocoa and UIKit) for React style (RxSwift, ComponentKit, SwiftUI). It's the biggest shift in native UI programming in more than a decade.
MikusR 4y ago
There recently was a thread here on the impact of layoffs on React. And apparently even Facebook has abandoned react for anything but internal projects.
- coxley 4y ago
  > And apparently even Facebook has abandoned react for anything but internal projects I... what? Do you have a source or speculating to create fear of future support? I'm nearly certain this is untrue.
  - MikusR 4y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33534221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33534221

bootsmann 4y ago

Tbf I think this was just the learning curve for big tech companies. Google and Facebook face scalability problems other companies 5 years before anyone else so if they don't open source the solutions they come up with, the industry-standard that establishes itself 5 years later will not be compatible with their solution and they will have a hard time recruiting and keeping personnel for their own system.