4 ms·

Indeed. I don't understand the outrage at wanting to know the age of your customer, especially when: a) there are laws involved b) you have a variety of conte

by mankyd 4y ago

Indeed. I don't understand the outrage at wanting to know the age of your customer, especially when: a) there are laws involved b) you have a variety of content/products specifically aimed at different ages I won't speak to gender, that's certainly a different concept, but age doesn't exact ring alarm bells for me here.

zmgsabst 4y ago
Disney: “Gendered stereotypes are harmful — be more inclusive!” Also Disney: “Tell us your gender so we can target ads based on that!” I would take DIE advocates more seriously if they reformed themselves — rather than lecturing the rest of us while engaging in such blatant hypocrisy.
- sublinear 4y ago
  It's called "cultural Marxism". It's not necessarily a conspiracy, but it's certainly a thing. DEI is just the latest consultant scheme.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 1attice 4y ago
    What I love about nonsense phrases like 'cultural marxism' is that they invariably have the opposite impact than was likely intended. Calling "cultural marxism" on [checks notes] a *marketing ask* is like calling a restaurant a food bank because they both involve food.
    - sublinear 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory Hah. Ok fine let's call it by the more academic term. It's still a thing and nothing was refuted by your comment.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  I have dim memories of lego positioning their stuff as gender-neutral when I was a kid. That went comprehensively out the window in the mid-90s or so, presumably when some lego marketer discovered the (dubious) joys of market segmentation.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    What is or isn't gender-neutral is quite subjective. Pink lego sets about princesses and ponies may seem quite gendered, but what about a fire truck set? Lego City, Castle and Space each started out in the late 70s. Where those gendered? Perhaps not as overtly gendered as pink princess stuff, but nevertheless I bet they sold more of those sets to boys than girls. To Lego's credit, they did seem to make a point of putting both girls and boys on their advertisements.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      I didn't really mind it because when you mixed them up in a tupperware bin there was no "girl set" or "boy set", just a mess of Legos. Plus, like you said, there was a glut of gender-independent sets that were frankly pretty awesome. It doesn't matter if you're a boy, girl, or otherwise - you want to build that $399 Death Star kit if it's the last thing you do.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    Yeah I was raised during the first (second?) gender neutral parenting fad. Marketing is what killed it. Boys followed “He-Man” and girls “She-Ra”. Come to think of it, those are the most heavily gendered characters in existence. Look at their freaking names!
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      it's a bit of a spiral. Marketing was responding to toy stores gendering the aisles; can't get on the shelf if the store doesn't know where to put your product. I'm not sure what stores were responding to. Possibly the public.
    - 4y ago
falcolas 4y ago
You don't need to know the age, you just need to know if they're under or over 13 to comply with laws. Anything more granular is marketing and advertising BS which they have no need for.
- sybercecurity 4y ago
  Might want to know the year. That way they can determine when the profile is likely over 13 and no longer covered.
- mankyd 4y ago
  My kids watched different content at 2, at 8, and at 16 years old. Anything beyond late teens maybe could be chalked up to "advertising BS" but I would push further that my older parents watch markedly different content then I do at middle age, and I watch markedly different content than when I was in my early twenties. They could probably figure out watch preferences with good statistics, (and do), but asking for age probably gets them in the right ball park a lot faster.
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    what you watch is it up to you or up to the company selling you things ?
    - mankyd 4y ago
      Both. I don't want to watch children's tv shows. They have never suggested children's shows to me. My children don't want to watch bloody horror movies. They have never suggested bloody horror movies to them. Sometimes I have to search for what I want. That's fine. Sometimes I don't, that's even nicer.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Here's the problem: None of that is remotely generalizable. What you watch at, say, 40 is only going to apply to you. What you allow your children to watch at age 8 is also going to only apply to you. Tying things from what you watch to what you might want to watch will be miles more effective than your age, because your age has nothing to do with what shows you watch. I've known parents to show their kids "The Passion of Christ" or "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." I also know parents who watch (and love) shows like Phineas and Ferb or Spongebob.
Hizonner 4y ago
Things you are entitled to know about your customers: what product or service they want, how it has to be delivered, and whether they will pay for it. Things you are not entitled to know about your customers: anything else whatsoever. Asking for people's age, gender, or whatever, is creepy and rude. Especially if you inconvenience the customer in the process. And... (a) You can comply with COPPA and similar laws by not collecting data on ANYBODY, which is what you should be doing anyhow. No sympathy. (b) Let the customer decide what the customer wants, thank you very much.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  I hate to break this to you but you are going to pine for these days very shortly. The UK is pretty insistent that they will require almost every site on the internet to be suitable for under 13s or credit card age verify.
- jklinger410 4y ago
  > Things you are entitled to know about your customers Anything you are legally allowed to. For any questions or concerns please contact your senator.
  - Hizonner 4y ago
    Good to know that your concept of acceptable human behavior encompasses everything that's not illegal.
    - jklinger410 4y ago
      I believe we look to government to solve these problems. I do not think whining online or thinking the power of my wallet is going to solve massive systemic issues like the entire advertising industry.
txsoftwaredev 4y ago
As a child of the 80/90s I don't recall having to tell my age to watch Duck Tales.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
There are good and valid reasons to ask for age and I would argue legal is one of those types of reasons. “Comply with age-related legal obligations However, delivering ads is not something I would be willing to accept. Drop the lines below Disney and I might consider thinking about talking with wife about approaching trial run: “Personalize your content and experiences “Deliver targeted advertising to you” << age doesn't exact ring alarm bells for me here. Not everyone is ok with being profiled from every possible angle.

by mankyd 4y ago

zmgsabst 4y ago

Disney: “Gendered stereotypes are harmful — be more inclusive!” Also Disney: “Tell us your gender so we can target ads based on that!” I would take DIE advocates more seriously if they reformed themselves — rather than lecturing the rest of us while engaging in such blatant hypocrisy.

sublinear 4y ago
It's called "cultural Marxism". It's not necessarily a conspiracy, but it's certainly a thing. DEI is just the latest consultant scheme.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 1attice 4y ago
  What I love about nonsense phrases like 'cultural marxism' is that they invariably have the opposite impact than was likely intended. Calling "cultural marxism" on [checks notes] a *marketing ask* is like calling a restaurant a food bank because they both involve food.
  - sublinear 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory Hah. Ok fine let's call it by the more academic term. It's still a thing and nothing was refuted by your comment.
rsynnott 4y ago
I have dim memories of lego positioning their stuff as gender-neutral when I was a kid. That went comprehensively out the window in the mid-90s or so, presumably when some lego marketer discovered the (dubious) joys of market segmentation.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  What is or isn't gender-neutral is quite subjective. Pink lego sets about princesses and ponies may seem quite gendered, but what about a fire truck set? Lego City, Castle and Space each started out in the late 70s. Where those gendered? Perhaps not as overtly gendered as pink princess stuff, but nevertheless I bet they sold more of those sets to boys than girls. To Lego's credit, they did seem to make a point of putting both girls and boys on their advertisements.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I didn't really mind it because when you mixed them up in a tupperware bin there was no "girl set" or "boy set", just a mess of Legos. Plus, like you said, there was a glut of gender-independent sets that were frankly pretty awesome. It doesn't matter if you're a boy, girl, or otherwise - you want to build that $399 Death Star kit if it's the last thing you do.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  Yeah I was raised during the first (second?) gender neutral parenting fad. Marketing is what killed it. Boys followed “He-Man” and girls “She-Ra”. Come to think of it, those are the most heavily gendered characters in existence. Look at their freaking names!
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    it's a bit of a spiral. Marketing was responding to toy stores gendering the aisles; can't get on the shelf if the store doesn't know where to put your product. I'm not sure what stores were responding to. Possibly the public.
  - 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago

You don't need to know the age, you just need to know if they're under or over 13 to comply with laws. Anything more granular is marketing and advertising BS which they have no need for.

sybercecurity 4y ago
Might want to know the year. That way they can determine when the profile is likely over 13 and no longer covered.
mankyd 4y ago
My kids watched different content at 2, at 8, and at 16 years old. Anything beyond late teens maybe could be chalked up to "advertising BS" but I would push further that my older parents watch markedly different content then I do at middle age, and I watch markedly different content than when I was in my early twenties. They could probably figure out watch preferences with good statistics, (and do), but asking for age probably gets them in the right ball park a lot faster.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  what you watch is it up to you or up to the company selling you things ?
  - mankyd 4y ago
    Both. I don't want to watch children's tv shows. They have never suggested children's shows to me. My children don't want to watch bloody horror movies. They have never suggested bloody horror movies to them. Sometimes I have to search for what I want. That's fine. Sometimes I don't, that's even nicer.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Here's the problem: None of that is remotely generalizable. What you watch at, say, 40 is only going to apply to you. What you allow your children to watch at age 8 is also going to only apply to you. Tying things from what you watch to what you might want to watch will be miles more effective than your age, because your age has nothing to do with what shows you watch. I've known parents to show their kids "The Passion of Christ" or "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." I also know parents who watch (and love) shows like Phineas and Ferb or Spongebob.

Hizonner 4y ago

Things you are entitled to know about your customers: what product or service they want, how it has to be delivered, and whether they will pay for it. Things you are not entitled to know about your customers: anything else whatsoever. Asking for people's age, gender, or whatever, is creepy and rude. Especially if you inconvenience the customer in the process. And... (a) You can comply with COPPA and similar laws by not collecting data on ANYBODY, which is what you should be doing anyhow. No sympathy. (b) Let the customer decide what the customer wants, thank you very much.

Mindwipe 4y ago
I hate to break this to you but you are going to pine for these days very shortly. The UK is pretty insistent that they will require almost every site on the internet to be suitable for under 13s or credit card age verify.
jklinger410 4y ago
> Things you are entitled to know about your customers Anything you are legally allowed to. For any questions or concerns please contact your senator.
- Hizonner 4y ago
  Good to know that your concept of acceptable human behavior encompasses everything that's not illegal.
  - jklinger410 4y ago
    I believe we look to government to solve these problems. I do not think whining online or thinking the power of my wallet is going to solve massive systemic issues like the entire advertising industry.

txsoftwaredev 4y ago

As a child of the 80/90s I don't recall having to tell my age to watch Duck Tales.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

There are good and valid reasons to ask for age and I would argue legal is one of those types of reasons. “Comply with age-related legal obligations However, delivering ads is not something I would be willing to accept. Drop the lines below Disney and I might consider thinking about talking with wife about approaching trial run: “Personalize your content and experiences “Deliver targeted advertising to you” << age doesn't exact ring alarm bells for me here. Not everyone is ok with being profiled from every possible angle.