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Forgive my naïveté, but aren’t you describing a decentralized exchange (DEX) instead of what FTX was? Looks like Uniswap, a popular DEX, is still alive and well

Forgive my naïveté, but aren’t you describing a decentralized exchange (DEX) instead of what FTX was? Looks like Uniswap, a popular DEX, is still alive and well.

conqueso 4y ago
GP is most likely mocking what they see as circular logic in the crypto-sphere. Re: Uniswap - a study posted here few days ago found that 97.7% of tokens launched there are either scams or rug pulls: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33572361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33572361
- TimJRobinson 4y ago
  I'm sure 99% of emails are scams but that doesn't make email a bad technology.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    1. I received useful emails each day, and spams are always around 10%. Maybe I am just conservative about wher I put my email? Not being in crypto may help as well, but it's definitely not 1%-99% for me, more like 90%-10%. 2. More importantly, an email provider that doesn't make an effort to distinguish between 99% of spam emails and 1% of legit ones is definitely useless and worthless.
    - TimJRobinson 4y ago
      Uniswap the protocol is like SMTP - it's open and permissionless. Uniswap the website is more like Gmail, it has a whitelisted set of tokens to swap. Because it's a protocol anyone can build a frontend on top of it to filter out any information they like, just like Email. Zapper, DeFi Saver and Zerion are examples of this. Element Finance runs using Balancer under the hood but you wouldn't know and aren't exposed to any tokens or pools they don't manage.
  - mwigdahl 4y ago
    Without the capacity for powerful spam blocking email is a bad technology, or at least an unusable one. DeFi seems to pride itself on _not_ blocking its equivalent of spam.
- beaned 4y ago
  It doesn't sound like mocking scams, it sounds like mocking people not putting money where their mouth is. A lot of people already promoting "defi" are keeping their funds on centralized exchanges. Why? They still provide a performance edge and more features, but if all you need is basic trading, they should be being utilized even more. DeFi has no fiat gateway though, that's the biggest bottleneck. The gateway is the centralized exchanges, and I think people tend to park their money on them once they deposit/convert their dollars.
- 40four 4y ago
  The more interesting part of that article was the ML techniques described, and the actual conclusion that using said techniques, scam versus not-scam projects can be identified very early on. But that was lost is the typical ‘I told you so’ from the ‘crypto is bad’ crowd.
TimJRobinson 4y ago
Yea I work at Balancer and love decentralized finance. It is the shining light of the crypto market and it unfortunately gets so little attention in mainstream media. We have a chance to make finance better with companies that are completely transparent. Where all funds are held by code which can be audited and proven that they can't steal funds. Decentralized versions of what FTX did already exist: - Exchanges: Uniswap, Balancer - Lending Markets: Aave, Compound - Options: Lyra, Ribbon - Perps: GMX, Perpetual We don't have to suffer through scammer after scammer until the end of time, and we don't need overbearing regulation to save us. We just need transparency. Real finance is already being done in these platforms and I wish more people would take it seriously and realise this can be a much better future for everyone. Plus because they're open source and composable we can innovate much faster but that's a thread for another time.
- danrocks 4y ago
  Your "love" of decentralized finance is clouding your judgement. "We just need transparency" -> this is patently false. The decentralized exchanges you mentioned are supposedly open and transparent and yet 97% of coins listed on Uniswap are scams. Being open source and transparent solves nothing. What we need is better, more equipped, and less corrupt regulators.
  - TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
    You are conflating two things but they are not the same. FTX (The entity) going bust and losing all customer funds and you buying a shitcoin and losing your funds. One is FTX's fault, one is yours. If you are using a DEX, you understand that anyone can add their token to the list if they have enough liquidity.
- lottin 4y ago
  The problem with DeFi is it can't handle credit risk. You see, banks can also eliminate credit risk. They could lend money, and then insist that the money be kept in a box under their supervision. That would eliminate credit risk, and the money would always be safe. Okay, but what would be the point of that? The entire point of lending is temporarily giving up control of resources so that other people can use them. Therefore credit risk is inherent to any lending activity that is useful. Lending without credit risk is pointless, it defeats the purpose. Most DeFi enthusiasts I have spoken with don't understand this.

Forgive my naïveté, but aren’t you describing a decentralized exchange (DEX) instead of what FTX was? Looks like Uniswap, a popular DEX, is still alive and well.

conqueso 4y ago

GP is most likely mocking what they see as circular logic in the crypto-sphere. Re: Uniswap - a study posted here few days ago found that 97.7% of tokens launched there are either scams or rug pulls: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33572361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33572361

TimJRobinson 4y ago
I'm sure 99% of emails are scams but that doesn't make email a bad technology.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  1. I received useful emails each day, and spams are always around 10%. Maybe I am just conservative about wher I put my email? Not being in crypto may help as well, but it's definitely not 1%-99% for me, more like 90%-10%. 2. More importantly, an email provider that doesn't make an effort to distinguish between 99% of spam emails and 1% of legit ones is definitely useless and worthless.
  - TimJRobinson 4y ago
    Uniswap the protocol is like SMTP - it's open and permissionless. Uniswap the website is more like Gmail, it has a whitelisted set of tokens to swap. Because it's a protocol anyone can build a frontend on top of it to filter out any information they like, just like Email. Zapper, DeFi Saver and Zerion are examples of this. Element Finance runs using Balancer under the hood but you wouldn't know and aren't exposed to any tokens or pools they don't manage.
- mwigdahl 4y ago
  Without the capacity for powerful spam blocking email is a bad technology, or at least an unusable one. DeFi seems to pride itself on _not_ blocking its equivalent of spam.
beaned 4y ago
It doesn't sound like mocking scams, it sounds like mocking people not putting money where their mouth is. A lot of people already promoting "defi" are keeping their funds on centralized exchanges. Why? They still provide a performance edge and more features, but if all you need is basic trading, they should be being utilized even more. DeFi has no fiat gateway though, that's the biggest bottleneck. The gateway is the centralized exchanges, and I think people tend to park their money on them once they deposit/convert their dollars.
40four 4y ago
The more interesting part of that article was the ML techniques described, and the actual conclusion that using said techniques, scam versus not-scam projects can be identified very early on. But that was lost is the typical ‘I told you so’ from the ‘crypto is bad’ crowd.

TimJRobinson 4y ago

Yea I work at Balancer and love decentralized finance. It is the shining light of the crypto market and it unfortunately gets so little attention in mainstream media. We have a chance to make finance better with companies that are completely transparent. Where all funds are held by code which can be audited and proven that they can't steal funds. Decentralized versions of what FTX did already exist: - Exchanges: Uniswap, Balancer - Lending Markets: Aave, Compound - Options: Lyra, Ribbon - Perps: GMX, Perpetual We don't have to suffer through scammer after scammer until the end of time, and we don't need overbearing regulation to save us. We just need transparency. Real finance is already being done in these platforms and I wish more people would take it seriously and realise this can be a much better future for everyone. Plus because they're open source and composable we can innovate much faster but that's a thread for another time.

danrocks 4y ago
Your "love" of decentralized finance is clouding your judgement. "We just need transparency" -> this is patently false. The decentralized exchanges you mentioned are supposedly open and transparent and yet 97% of coins listed on Uniswap are scams. Being open source and transparent solves nothing. What we need is better, more equipped, and less corrupt regulators.
- TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
  You are conflating two things but they are not the same. FTX (The entity) going bust and losing all customer funds and you buying a shitcoin and losing your funds. One is FTX's fault, one is yours. If you are using a DEX, you understand that anyone can add their token to the list if they have enough liquidity.
lottin 4y ago
The problem with DeFi is it can't handle credit risk. You see, banks can also eliminate credit risk. They could lend money, and then insist that the money be kept in a box under their supervision. That would eliminate credit risk, and the money would always be safe. Okay, but what would be the point of that? The entire point of lending is temporarily giving up control of resources so that other people can use them. Therefore credit risk is inherent to any lending activity that is useful. Lending without credit risk is pointless, it defeats the purpose. Most DeFi enthusiasts I have spoken with don't understand this.