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This is really going to eat into Garmin's Inreach market (ditto for Spot, Zoleo, etc). It says free for the first 2 years. I'm curious what the yearly cost wil

This is really going to eat into Garmin's Inreach market (ditto for Spot, Zoleo, etc). It says free for the first 2 years. I'm curious what the yearly cost will be after that, and how it will compare to an Inreach plan. On an ongoing basis, it's the subscription fees that really add up.

Alex3917 4y ago
The bigger threat to Garmin is probably just the new GPS. There are probably a lot of folks who will now put off buying their first bike computer for a couple years now that an iPhone with Strava is going to be almost as accurate as an Edge 530 or whatever. Having a real bike computer is still going to be better, but by significantly less than it was a year ago.
- CarbonCycles 4y ago
  Garmin has already released the new GPS chipset that uses multiband (similar to Apples). https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A The new GPS chipsets are absolutely a beast in challenging conditions and incredibly accurate/precise over the older technology.
- petre 4y ago
  One doesn't need to buy an expensive Garmin model. I've got an Edge 130 and an older Edge 25 that I've bought second hand. The 130 came as an upgrade to the older device and is perfect for my use. Both devices connect with my Forerunner 245 watch for the HR. Whenever I don't want to use them (commute or sub 20 km workout), I just use the watch. Dual frequency GPS is probably going to make its way into cheaper Garmin models soon enough, maybe thanks to Apple. Having a phone on the handlebar/top tube is cumbersome and annoying, battery life is crap and distractions galore. I don't want needless phone calls from annoying people interrupting my workout and distracting me from watching the road. I've set up my Garmin devices to ignore phone calls and texts from the phone during workouts.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    I've set up my Garmin devices to ignore phone calls and texts from the phone during workouts. As an FYI, if you have an iPhone, you can set a "Fitness" focus mode that turns on automatically when a workout is started. From there, you can specify which contacts can pop a notification during workouts (or none at all). I let my wife and my parents get through. But, like you, not that I'd use a phone as a bike computer to begin with.
- nradov 4y ago
  Some cyclists do already use iPhones with the Strava app as bike computers but they don't work very well. The third-party mounts are kind of janky, battery life is terrible, screen visibility is poor in some lighting conditions, and they don't support the ANT+ industry standard for common sensors such as power meters. An iPhone is adequate for casual use, but Garmin isn't really trying to target that market anyway. Those casual cyclists don't care about recording precise GPS tracks. The latest high-end Garmin devices do support multi-frequency GPS just as accurate as the iPhone 14. Those chips aren't included in Garmin's mid-range products like Edge 5XX/8XX series bike computers but will probably be added in the next refresh.
- Matthias247 4y ago
  As an enthusiast cyclist I don't think they is a threat to Garmin and Wahoo. The customers for those are enthusiasts who ride in all conditions and want a rugged device, a device with good battery life, a slim form factor that doesn't look off place on handlebars. Bike computers offer all of those, while phones do it only in a limited way. That has been driving cyclists to use bike computers for years, and not the lack of GPS precision. So I think nothing will change. More casual cyclists might use their phones since they already have those and don't want to buy an extra bike computer - but that was already true in the past.
katbyte 4y ago
Spot and zoleo for sure, not sure about garmin yet. I’ll be keeping mine as you can text people with it outside or an emergency which is super handy. “I’m late don’t worry” or “I’m stuck but ok”
brookst 4y ago
I’m not sure it will eat into those markets. Those are device for people who know they are going off-grid and may need both emergency comms and who (typically) also want to be able to let people at home know where they are and how things are going. My take is the Apple SOS is for people who are unprepared and surprised, and who wouldn’t have bought a satellite comm device and paid for the subscription because they weren’t expecting the emergency. I’m a happy iPhone 14 user who will get this nice feature, but I’m not planning to cancel my InReach subscription ($20/month, pause/resume any time), which I have never used to call for a rescue but have used a lot to let family know where I am and that things are fine when overlanding. And Inreach works right from the dashboard while driving, no need to get situated perfectly. Maybe this is a harbinger and future enhancements will kill Inreach, but at least for now it feels like a very different application.
- ghaff 4y ago
  One can certainly imagine future iterations where you can text arbitrary people for $1/text or whatever. A dedicated robust device with long battery life would still have its niche but that would certainly limit the market even more.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  One of my buddies does S&R in Marin county, they get called for people getting lost 300 yards off trail that were going for a walk CONSTANTLY. Just people out for a walk, no cell coverage. They never have gear with them. My friend said this a game changer.
  - pests 4y ago
    I notice we have a lot of SAR people in this thread so question for everyone: Is it wrong to call for help when you are lost only 300 yards off trail like you said? I would be embarrassed - but is anyone going to be upset?
    - MarkMarine 4y ago
      Not wrong, it’s never wrong to call for help if you need help. Call early before you’re hypothermic, dehydrated and your cell battery is dead. A lot of my buddies rescues are older people who just got a little lost, or slipped down a steep embankment and can’t get back up. The worst ones are when that happens, but it’s been 3 days and the chances they find a live person are more slim. The SAR people vastly prefer finding people alive, so if you need help, give them a chance for a happy ending by calling.
brantonb 4y ago
I was just looking at the Garmin inReach on REI’s sale a few minutes ago. $350 for the device ($50 off right now), $30 activation fee, and $12/month for two years is $668. Upgrading my 3 year old phone is $800. Kind of a no-brainer to use the phone I’d be carrying anyway. I’m not looking to use it for weeks-long trips. Mostly trail running and maybe a few days in the back country.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I've looked at the InReach. If I were doing a lot of solo remote backcountry travel (whether hiking or something else), I'd probably feel that buying one and getting a subscription was the prudent thing to do. However, for occasional use for mostly day hikes with patchy cell phone coverage? That's hard to justify whereas I might consider (though won't) upgrade my phone a bit sooner than I might have otherwise for this feature.
alphakilo 4y ago
Echoing others, I don't think this will have a huge impact as iPhone SOS is a last resort for those who are unprepared Garmin inReach is a robust and rugged satellite communicator that out classes iPhone emergency SOS greatly - inreach doesn't require "tracking" the satellite as it has a stronger antenna - inreach is more waterproof, dust proof atd shock resistant (no touch screen) - inreach has higher battery life, SOS can be activated while the device is off - ability to send messages, which can be critical if there are no cell towers that can be boosned/activated That said, it is a great innovation; I think the Apple Watch Ultra will cut more into the diving watch market than the iPhone into the satellite communicator market
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  Just like the best camera is the one you actually have with you, the best rescue device is the one you actually have with you. And for many people, that’s not going to be a Garmin inReach because they don’t own a device and they don’t have a subscription to the service.
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  I don’t see the market for a high end dive watch without air integration, but with the UX they have. The people that don’t care about AI dive with a perdix or tables, but basically require something you can operate with gloves on. The rest of them with the money for a nice watch really want AI.
  - ghostpepper 4y ago
    "perdix or tables" those are starkly different options. do you know a lot of people who still dive with tables?
    - MarkMarine 4y ago
      Yeah, like everyone that dives with GUE, I plan my dives and dive tables and a bottom timer.
DebtDeflation 4y ago
It won't. I have an InReach Mini that I take with me hiking and mountain biking. I use the capability to send non-emergency texts almost every time I'm out when not in cell range. I've never (thankfully) had to use the Emergency capability. What the Apple function will do is lead to a flood of people triggering emergency alerts when they drop their water bottle on a 3 mile day hike in the local park.
sevenf0ur 4y ago
I have both an inReach and an iPhone 14. Haven't made a decision yet myself if I will keep it. Some pros for the inReach: 1. It's nice to have a backup. 2. The battery life on the inReach is upwards of a month and it's more rugged. 3. You can throw it in your pack, forget about it, and somehow it stills gets a signal. 3. Garmin has a dedicated communications center (IERCC) that has tons of experience coordinating with first responders. They will keep your emergency contacts updated about your rescue. Apple's system is less proven.
- brewdad 4y ago
  I see the InReach as the system to use if you are an avid outdoors-person. This setup is well suited to the millions who took up hiking as a way to get out of the house during Covid and now maybe go out to the wilderness a couple times a summer but don't fully grasp the risks that can be out there. Another use case: The there are two highways between my metro area and the Pacific coast. Both are pretty remote through the forest. One has decent coverage with only a couple of mile long dropouts along the way. The other road has essentially zero cell coverage for about 20 miles and spotty coverage for another 20 miles. Winter travelers have gone off the road and not been found for hours or even days. This device could certainly save a life in that case.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Sometimes it is illegal to offer something for free if it destroys competition in an area you want to compete in.

Alex3917 4y ago

The bigger threat to Garmin is probably just the new GPS. There are probably a lot of folks who will now put off buying their first bike computer for a couple years now that an iPhone with Strava is going to be almost as accurate as an Edge 530 or whatever. Having a real bike computer is still going to be better, but by significantly less than it was a year ago.

CarbonCycles 4y ago
Garmin has already released the new GPS chipset that uses multiband (similar to Apples). https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfdWFol7A The new GPS chipsets are absolutely a beast in challenging conditions and incredibly accurate/precise over the older technology.
petre 4y ago
One doesn't need to buy an expensive Garmin model. I've got an Edge 130 and an older Edge 25 that I've bought second hand. The 130 came as an upgrade to the older device and is perfect for my use. Both devices connect with my Forerunner 245 watch for the HR. Whenever I don't want to use them (commute or sub 20 km workout), I just use the watch. Dual frequency GPS is probably going to make its way into cheaper Garmin models soon enough, maybe thanks to Apple. Having a phone on the handlebar/top tube is cumbersome and annoying, battery life is crap and distractions galore. I don't want needless phone calls from annoying people interrupting my workout and distracting me from watching the road. I've set up my Garmin devices to ignore phone calls and texts from the phone during workouts.
- mikestew 4y ago
  I've set up my Garmin devices to ignore phone calls and texts from the phone during workouts. As an FYI, if you have an iPhone, you can set a "Fitness" focus mode that turns on automatically when a workout is started. From there, you can specify which contacts can pop a notification during workouts (or none at all). I let my wife and my parents get through. But, like you, not that I'd use a phone as a bike computer to begin with.
nradov 4y ago
Some cyclists do already use iPhones with the Strava app as bike computers but they don't work very well. The third-party mounts are kind of janky, battery life is terrible, screen visibility is poor in some lighting conditions, and they don't support the ANT+ industry standard for common sensors such as power meters. An iPhone is adequate for casual use, but Garmin isn't really trying to target that market anyway. Those casual cyclists don't care about recording precise GPS tracks. The latest high-end Garmin devices do support multi-frequency GPS just as accurate as the iPhone 14. Those chips aren't included in Garmin's mid-range products like Edge 5XX/8XX series bike computers but will probably be added in the next refresh.
Matthias247 4y ago
As an enthusiast cyclist I don't think they is a threat to Garmin and Wahoo. The customers for those are enthusiasts who ride in all conditions and want a rugged device, a device with good battery life, a slim form factor that doesn't look off place on handlebars. Bike computers offer all of those, while phones do it only in a limited way. That has been driving cyclists to use bike computers for years, and not the lack of GPS precision. So I think nothing will change. More casual cyclists might use their phones since they already have those and don't want to buy an extra bike computer - but that was already true in the past.

katbyte 4y ago

Spot and zoleo for sure, not sure about garmin yet. I’ll be keeping mine as you can text people with it outside or an emergency which is super handy. “I’m late don’t worry” or “I’m stuck but ok”

brookst 4y ago

I’m not sure it will eat into those markets. Those are device for people who know they are going off-grid and may need both emergency comms and who (typically) also want to be able to let people at home know where they are and how things are going. My take is the Apple SOS is for people who are unprepared and surprised, and who wouldn’t have bought a satellite comm device and paid for the subscription because they weren’t expecting the emergency. I’m a happy iPhone 14 user who will get this nice feature, but I’m not planning to cancel my InReach subscription ($20/month, pause/resume any time), which I have never used to call for a rescue but have used a lot to let family know where I am and that things are fine when overlanding. And Inreach works right from the dashboard while driving, no need to get situated perfectly. Maybe this is a harbinger and future enhancements will kill Inreach, but at least for now it feels like a very different application.

ghaff 4y ago
One can certainly imagine future iterations where you can text arbitrary people for $1/text or whatever. A dedicated robust device with long battery life would still have its niche but that would certainly limit the market even more.
MarkMarine 4y ago
One of my buddies does S&R in Marin county, they get called for people getting lost 300 yards off trail that were going for a walk CONSTANTLY. Just people out for a walk, no cell coverage. They never have gear with them. My friend said this a game changer.
- pests 4y ago
  I notice we have a lot of SAR people in this thread so question for everyone: Is it wrong to call for help when you are lost only 300 yards off trail like you said? I would be embarrassed - but is anyone going to be upset?
  - MarkMarine 4y ago
    Not wrong, it’s never wrong to call for help if you need help. Call early before you’re hypothermic, dehydrated and your cell battery is dead. A lot of my buddies rescues are older people who just got a little lost, or slipped down a steep embankment and can’t get back up. The worst ones are when that happens, but it’s been 3 days and the chances they find a live person are more slim. The SAR people vastly prefer finding people alive, so if you need help, give them a chance for a happy ending by calling.

brantonb 4y ago

I was just looking at the Garmin inReach on REI’s sale a few minutes ago. $350 for the device ($50 off right now), $30 activation fee, and $12/month for two years is $668. Upgrading my 3 year old phone is $800. Kind of a no-brainer to use the phone I’d be carrying anyway. I’m not looking to use it for weeks-long trips. Mostly trail running and maybe a few days in the back country.

ghaff 4y ago
I've looked at the InReach. If I were doing a lot of solo remote backcountry travel (whether hiking or something else), I'd probably feel that buying one and getting a subscription was the prudent thing to do. However, for occasional use for mostly day hikes with patchy cell phone coverage? That's hard to justify whereas I might consider (though won't) upgrade my phone a bit sooner than I might have otherwise for this feature.

alphakilo 4y ago

Echoing others, I don't think this will have a huge impact as iPhone SOS is a last resort for those who are unprepared Garmin inReach is a robust and rugged satellite communicator that out classes iPhone emergency SOS greatly - inreach doesn't require "tracking" the satellite as it has a stronger antenna - inreach is more waterproof, dust proof atd shock resistant (no touch screen) - inreach has higher battery life, SOS can be activated while the device is off - ability to send messages, which can be critical if there are no cell towers that can be boosned/activated That said, it is a great innovation; I think the Apple Watch Ultra will cut more into the diving watch market than the iPhone into the satellite communicator market

tinus_hn 4y ago
Just like the best camera is the one you actually have with you, the best rescue device is the one you actually have with you. And for many people, that’s not going to be a Garmin inReach because they don’t own a device and they don’t have a subscription to the service.
MarkMarine 4y ago
I don’t see the market for a high end dive watch without air integration, but with the UX they have. The people that don’t care about AI dive with a perdix or tables, but basically require something you can operate with gloves on. The rest of them with the money for a nice watch really want AI.
- ghostpepper 4y ago
  "perdix or tables" those are starkly different options. do you know a lot of people who still dive with tables?
  - MarkMarine 4y ago
    Yeah, like everyone that dives with GUE, I plan my dives and dive tables and a bottom timer.

DebtDeflation 4y ago

It won't. I have an InReach Mini that I take with me hiking and mountain biking. I use the capability to send non-emergency texts almost every time I'm out when not in cell range. I've never (thankfully) had to use the Emergency capability. What the Apple function will do is lead to a flood of people triggering emergency alerts when they drop their water bottle on a 3 mile day hike in the local park.

sevenf0ur 4y ago

I have both an inReach and an iPhone 14. Haven't made a decision yet myself if I will keep it. Some pros for the inReach: 1. It's nice to have a backup. 2. The battery life on the inReach is upwards of a month and it's more rugged. 3. You can throw it in your pack, forget about it, and somehow it stills gets a signal. 3. Garmin has a dedicated communications center (IERCC) that has tons of experience coordinating with first responders. They will keep your emergency contacts updated about your rescue. Apple's system is less proven.

brewdad 4y ago
I see the InReach as the system to use if you are an avid outdoors-person. This setup is well suited to the millions who took up hiking as a way to get out of the house during Covid and now maybe go out to the wilderness a couple times a summer but don't fully grasp the risks that can be out there. Another use case: The there are two highways between my metro area and the Pacific coast. Both are pretty remote through the forest. One has decent coverage with only a couple of mile long dropouts along the way. The other road has essentially zero cell coverage for about 20 miles and spotty coverage for another 20 miles. Winter travelers have gone off the road and not been found for hours or even days. This device could certainly save a life in that case.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

Sometimes it is illegal to offer something for free if it destroys competition in an area you want to compete in.