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Canadian teachers and retired teachers have $220b, which they paid into the plan from their not particularly opulent pay packets. Nearly $100m was given to a co

Canadian teachers and retired teachers have $220b, which they paid into the plan from their not particularly opulent pay packets. Nearly $100m was given to a company based in a regulatory haven, which does not know to within $5bn how much money it has, and which was able to steal from its customers without any oversight. Ontario Teachers were an anchor investor in a round which lots of less clueless people must have passed on. Not sure why you think this is ok.

fatneckbeardz 4y ago
an enormous amount of our economy is based off gaslighting and manipulation they can blur the line between honest mistake, gross negligence, nepotism, corruption, and thievery, enough that people who will applaud beating up a shoplifter for taking 20 dollars of junk will say "oh but they have nice suits and went to Stanford" about someone who gave 75 million dollars for magic beans.
sebzim4500 4y ago
They accepted the risk of losing $100m because they thought there was a significant chance of getting a much bigger return. Obviously in this case the bet didn't pay off, but putting 0.05% of the AUM in a high risk investment is hardly a scandal.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- also it was out of their early stage fund - the vast majority of their money is in traditional investments - don't understand why everyone is so up in arms - they really think they know better than the most successful investment group in Canada? --
  - wikfwikf 4y ago
    Why do an investment group which is successful in making large, traditional, real money investments think they know better than the numerous seasoned venture funds and experienced crypto investors who did not give $95m to FTX? What was it about FTX's lack of internal controls or experienced decision-makers which only TVG was able to identify as a source of value?
    - pigtailgirl 4y ago
      -- their portfolio is pretty fantastic - so they made 1 bum investment based on cooked books - VC is literally about standard deviation -- https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teachers-venture-growth/#portfolio https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teach...
    - kasey_junk 4y ago
      Lol. FTX’s investors were a whose who of “seasoned venture funds and experienced crypto investors”. Sequoia, Third Point Iconiq etc. Coinbase Ventures gave them money. Blackrock was an investor. If you want to see FTX as an indictment of the entire venture industry I think there is an argument to be had there. But picking on OTP is just a lazy rhetorical device. They made a similar investment to other funds in the industry they are in, that was a reasonable size of their portfolio in an investment style known to be risky.
      - wikfwikf 4y ago
        Coinbase Ventures (a fund whose wheelhouse is, uh, investing in crypto ventures) did not invest anything like $95m. Your fourth example, Blackrock, is tellingly neither a seasoned venture fund nor an experienced crypto investor.
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  Teacher's Venture Growth is 8bn AUM. It makes complete sense to me that Ontario Teachers as a whole should put 4% of its assets into a venture fund. TVG put well over 1% of its assets into FTX. Numerous people who work for the venture fund, who are paid 10-100X the income of the retirees in the fund to make investing decisions, went ahead with this investment without asking themselves: 1. Why isn't there a crypto-savvy lead investor for this funding round? Why are we, Teachers Venture Growth, the best placed people to make this investment? 2. Why are 3 individuals with, ostensibly, enormous personal wealth, seeking outside investment from Ontario Teachers for this business? 3. Why isn't this business headquartered in a jurisdiction where people who commit massive financial fraud will be investigated and held to account? 4. What checks and balances regulate the relationship with Alameda, a hedge fund which a) trades with leverage and favorable fee structures on FTX b) is reputed (long before the Series B and the recent trouble) to have privileged access to FTX data c) is run by a romantic partner of the head of FTX? 5. Who are the grown-ups at FTX? You might well think that SBF and his posse have some magical crypto skills. But why don't they have senior people with experience in accountancy, compliance, or risk management helping keep them on the right path? This is the easiest question to answer - you can simply check who works for them, who's on risk committees and other oversight bodies, and what their resume is. People like to excuse massive due diligence failings like this by pointing out that not all venture investments are supposed to end up in the money. It's fine, if you have huge winners, to use them to justify a certain number of losers. If you don't have a proven track record for finding out-of-the-park winners, it's perfectly reasonable to ask why you think you can risk large amounts of money on things that look dubious to other investors, while not performing basic checks.
  - dmix 4y ago
    1% of the 4% for a single years worth of capital isn't that much, especially considering the good reputation and other high end investors putting money in.
drpgq 4y ago
Unlike in the US, Ontario teachers are paid well relative to the average Canadian, especially with their pensions taken into account.

fatneckbeardz 4y ago

an enormous amount of our economy is based off gaslighting and manipulation they can blur the line between honest mistake, gross negligence, nepotism, corruption, and thievery, enough that people who will applaud beating up a shoplifter for taking 20 dollars of junk will say "oh but they have nice suits and went to Stanford" about someone who gave 75 million dollars for magic beans.

sebzim4500 4y ago

They accepted the risk of losing $100m because they thought there was a significant chance of getting a much bigger return. Obviously in this case the bet didn't pay off, but putting 0.05% of the AUM in a high risk investment is hardly a scandal.

pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- also it was out of their early stage fund - the vast majority of their money is in traditional investments - don't understand why everyone is so up in arms - they really think they know better than the most successful investment group in Canada? --
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  Why do an investment group which is successful in making large, traditional, real money investments think they know better than the numerous seasoned venture funds and experienced crypto investors who did not give $95m to FTX? What was it about FTX's lack of internal controls or experienced decision-makers which only TVG was able to identify as a source of value?
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    -- their portfolio is pretty fantastic - so they made 1 bum investment based on cooked books - VC is literally about standard deviation -- https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teachers-venture-growth/#portfolio https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teach...
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    Lol. FTX’s investors were a whose who of “seasoned venture funds and experienced crypto investors”. Sequoia, Third Point Iconiq etc. Coinbase Ventures gave them money. Blackrock was an investor. If you want to see FTX as an indictment of the entire venture industry I think there is an argument to be had there. But picking on OTP is just a lazy rhetorical device. They made a similar investment to other funds in the industry they are in, that was a reasonable size of their portfolio in an investment style known to be risky.
    - wikfwikf 4y ago
      Coinbase Ventures (a fund whose wheelhouse is, uh, investing in crypto ventures) did not invest anything like $95m. Your fourth example, Blackrock, is tellingly neither a seasoned venture fund nor an experienced crypto investor.
wikfwikf 4y ago
Teacher's Venture Growth is 8bn AUM. It makes complete sense to me that Ontario Teachers as a whole should put 4% of its assets into a venture fund. TVG put well over 1% of its assets into FTX. Numerous people who work for the venture fund, who are paid 10-100X the income of the retirees in the fund to make investing decisions, went ahead with this investment without asking themselves: 1. Why isn't there a crypto-savvy lead investor for this funding round? Why are we, Teachers Venture Growth, the best placed people to make this investment? 2. Why are 3 individuals with, ostensibly, enormous personal wealth, seeking outside investment from Ontario Teachers for this business? 3. Why isn't this business headquartered in a jurisdiction where people who commit massive financial fraud will be investigated and held to account? 4. What checks and balances regulate the relationship with Alameda, a hedge fund which a) trades with leverage and favorable fee structures on FTX b) is reputed (long before the Series B and the recent trouble) to have privileged access to FTX data c) is run by a romantic partner of the head of FTX? 5. Who are the grown-ups at FTX? You might well think that SBF and his posse have some magical crypto skills. But why don't they have senior people with experience in accountancy, compliance, or risk management helping keep them on the right path? This is the easiest question to answer - you can simply check who works for them, who's on risk committees and other oversight bodies, and what their resume is. People like to excuse massive due diligence failings like this by pointing out that not all venture investments are supposed to end up in the money. It's fine, if you have huge winners, to use them to justify a certain number of losers. If you don't have a proven track record for finding out-of-the-park winners, it's perfectly reasonable to ask why you think you can risk large amounts of money on things that look dubious to other investors, while not performing basic checks.
- dmix 4y ago
  1% of the 4% for a single years worth of capital isn't that much, especially considering the good reputation and other high end investors putting money in.

drpgq 4y ago

Unlike in the US, Ontario teachers are paid well relative to the average Canadian, especially with their pensions taken into account.