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The Ontario Teachers' investment is outrageous. They are charging middle-class people (by definition) good money from their retirement savings to make reasonabl

The Ontario Teachers' investment is outrageous. They are charging middle-class people (by definition) good money from their retirement savings to make reasonable investing decisions and do due diligence.

thablackbull 4y ago
OTPP has quite a solid reputation and this particular investment was a miniscule speculative bet. You can see the performance over time here [1]. [1] https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-advantage/our-performance-and-track-record/ https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-advantage/our-per...
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  It's not about performance or risk management, it's about due diligence. They should not be giving any amount of money to an organization with such poor internal checks of their finances.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    --if you made an investment based on audited books but the books were still cooked - what more can you do? - audit the auditer maybe - at some point you have to trust the books --
    - wikfwikf 4y ago
      What if you made an investment based on not seeing any books, there not being any reliable guide as to the company's liabilities, seen or unseen, and not being aware of any regulation or oversight preventing fraud and/or blowing up? But you had a good feeling about the company's hype and the CEO seemed like a nice young man with main character energy? If the company turns out to be a fraud and the investment worthless, are you still entitled to say "nobody could have known" and "only 1 in 10 has to be a winner"?
  - mbesto 4y ago
    I'm sorry but thats not how it works. This investment was made out of their venture fund which deliberately makes risky bets, but is a small amount of the overall pie. OTPP is fine and is going to produce returns which are favorable, let's stop with the hyperbole.
- origin_path 4y ago
  How do you know there aren't many other bets like this on their sheets?
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    They are quite open about their investments: https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/ https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/ Here are the other bets in their venture category: https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teachers-venture-growth/#portfolio https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teach...
andromeduck 4y ago
They have 220B AUM.
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  Canadian teachers and retired teachers have $220b, which they paid into the plan from their not particularly opulent pay packets. Nearly $100m was given to a company based in a regulatory haven, which does not know to within $5bn how much money it has, and which was able to steal from its customers without any oversight. Ontario Teachers were an anchor investor in a round which lots of less clueless people must have passed on. Not sure why you think this is ok.
  - fatneckbeardz 4y ago
    an enormous amount of our economy is based off gaslighting and manipulation they can blur the line between honest mistake, gross negligence, nepotism, corruption, and thievery, enough that people who will applaud beating up a shoplifter for taking 20 dollars of junk will say "oh but they have nice suits and went to Stanford" about someone who gave 75 million dollars for magic beans.
  - sebzim4500 4y ago
    They accepted the risk of losing $100m because they thought there was a significant chance of getting a much bigger return. Obviously in this case the bet didn't pay off, but putting 0.05% of the AUM in a high risk investment is hardly a scandal.
    - pigtailgirl 4y ago
      -- also it was out of their early stage fund - the vast majority of their money is in traditional investments - don't understand why everyone is so up in arms - they really think they know better than the most successful investment group in Canada? --
      - wikfwikf 4y ago

thablackbull 4y ago

OTPP has quite a solid reputation and this particular investment was a miniscule speculative bet. You can see the performance over time here [1]. [1] https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-advantage/our-performance-and-track-record/ https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-advantage/our-per...

wikfwikf 4y ago
It's not about performance or risk management, it's about due diligence. They should not be giving any amount of money to an organization with such poor internal checks of their finances.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  --if you made an investment based on audited books but the books were still cooked - what more can you do? - audit the auditer maybe - at some point you have to trust the books --
  - wikfwikf 4y ago
    What if you made an investment based on not seeing any books, there not being any reliable guide as to the company's liabilities, seen or unseen, and not being aware of any regulation or oversight preventing fraud and/or blowing up? But you had a good feeling about the company's hype and the CEO seemed like a nice young man with main character energy? If the company turns out to be a fraud and the investment worthless, are you still entitled to say "nobody could have known" and "only 1 in 10 has to be a winner"?
- mbesto 4y ago
  I'm sorry but thats not how it works. This investment was made out of their venture fund which deliberately makes risky bets, but is a small amount of the overall pie. OTPP is fine and is going to produce returns which are favorable, let's stop with the hyperbole.
origin_path 4y ago
How do you know there aren't many other bets like this on their sheets?
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  They are quite open about their investments: https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/ https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/ Here are the other bets in their venture category: https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teachers-venture-growth/#portfolio https://www.otpp.com/en-ca/investments/our-investments/teach...

andromeduck 4y ago

They have 220B AUM.

wikfwikf 4y ago
Canadian teachers and retired teachers have $220b, which they paid into the plan from their not particularly opulent pay packets. Nearly $100m was given to a company based in a regulatory haven, which does not know to within $5bn how much money it has, and which was able to steal from its customers without any oversight. Ontario Teachers were an anchor investor in a round which lots of less clueless people must have passed on. Not sure why you think this is ok.
- fatneckbeardz 4y ago
  an enormous amount of our economy is based off gaslighting and manipulation they can blur the line between honest mistake, gross negligence, nepotism, corruption, and thievery, enough that people who will applaud beating up a shoplifter for taking 20 dollars of junk will say "oh but they have nice suits and went to Stanford" about someone who gave 75 million dollars for magic beans.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  They accepted the risk of losing $100m because they thought there was a significant chance of getting a much bigger return. Obviously in this case the bet didn't pay off, but putting 0.05% of the AUM in a high risk investment is hardly a scandal.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    -- also it was out of their early stage fund - the vast majority of their money is in traditional investments - don't understand why everyone is so up in arms - they really think they know better than the most successful investment group in Canada? --
    - wikfwikf 4y ago