9 ms·

Amazon 'prepares mass job cuts' as sales slow

48 points by saikatsg 4y ago

webmobdev 4y ago
Hiring freezes and mass lay-offs - who still believes that we aren't facing a recession?
- jacooper 4y ago
  I think no one?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- revlolz 4y ago
  Partisans playing at mental gymnastics. Both sides are guilty and the people endure reality no matter the narrative. The standard disinformation tactics to dispute definitions of things like 'recession' to focus people onto pointless discussions and debates on how to even spuriously define what recession and inflation are when in reality the prices of food, gasoline, hardware, materials, and you name it have skyrocketed. It doesn't matter which team was in office, the simple truth is compared to 2020 this is where we are and until people accept they might need to figure out how to stay invested into politics longer than election seasons and deeper than news broadcasts, this will endure.
- claudiulodro 4y ago
  I would say certain industries are facing a recession, but the economy is more than tech. "IRL" fields like hospitality and the trades are having boomtimes and unable to hire or retain employees fast enough e.g. restaurants are short about 3 million workers.
  - webmobdev 4y ago
    Understanding America’s Labor Shortage - https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-l... (I do believe that the main reason for labour shortage is mainly because of low pay, especially in restaurants and retail).
xenadu02 4y ago
How did so many companies assume the pandemic/lockdown bump was going to be permanent? It seems obvious that people stuck at home spent money on certain goods and services but that at least some of that money was going to go back whence it came when the pandemic was over. From what I hear some companies didn't go bananas, keeping hiring during the pandemic steady or in some cases below normal for the prior 5 years. I suppose that looks prescient in hindsight. There are few things more damaging than over-hiring followed by layoffs. That usually means an end to the promotion/bonus/stock train having nothing to do with anyone's performance. What's morale like when that bomb drops? Must be good to be in leadership... you get to fail, cause chaos to the business, scare away a lot of your top performers, and still collect millions. A good gig if you can get it. Maybe some of these leaders "taking responsibility" will refuse their stock awards or return their bonuses?
- izacus 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you're asking here - those companies made bank, the execs got bonuses and they're still profitable. From the perspective of capitalism (which cares nothing about humans being fired), over hiring doesn't seem to be a bad choice at all.
  - xenadu02 4y ago
    From a business ownership POV that's bad management and bad for the business. Shouldn't the owners optimize by getting rid of such management? FWIW I know the answer: management typically goes unchecked which is a huge problem. Managers vote themselves money and leave owners with the downside risk. Boards tend to be toothless rubber-stamps. Doesn't mean I have to like it (as an employee or a shareholder).
    - jnwatson 4y ago
      The biggest vulnerability in a corporation is that the interests of management and ownership (the shareholders) aren’t aligned. A common situation repeated over and over is that a manager has the opportunity to take huge risks for a big bonus, yet the worst that can happen is they lose their job. Case in point, it took a small team at AIG only 6 weeks of selling a financial product to bankrupt the 90-year-old company and contribute to the 2008 crash, ultimately leading to a Fed bailout.
jmartin2683 4y ago
Every company I’ve worked for has been overstaffed in engineering to one degree or another. The sad fact is that this is not a 1:1 type of thing… it’s typical for 80% of the output to come from 20% of the team. Many people coast along on their coattails.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Just to add: silicon valley started the tres of overhiring to drain the talent pool as a competitive advantage and others have followed along.
- zshrdlu 4y ago
  My observation too with 80/20. In fact - the system seems to be designed to work as such. You'd be going against the grain trying to make things anything other than 80/20. The only concern for individuals is: is being in either group in line with your personal goals?
not_enoch_wise 4y ago
If those office workers wanted jobs so bad, they should have spoken up as amazon transitioned into a brand-knockoff cardtable at scale! Though any staffer speaking out probably would have been PIP’d. Afterall, “leaders are right…a lot.” I blame the warehouse workers! All that unionization effort could have increased their pick rate instead.
_8j50 4y ago
This is what back to office looks like, less profits for everyone. We could be good little wfh consumers instead of fossil fuel guzzlers.
- Cwizard 4y ago
  That’s a stretch, Amazon has been known for bad quality for years. I have actively been trying to buy less from them since over a year now, I imagine others have as well and for longer. This trend was going to catch up with them eventually. Not saying this is what happened but my theory has just as much evidence as yours.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    Never have quality issues from them myself but my point was people order more stuff to accomodate wfh lifestyle because they spend more time in their own homes as opposed to offices maintained and kept up by someone else. A lot of products to help people adapt as well.
- sn_master 4y ago
  Most of Amazon employees live very near from the office, a substantial amount simply walk or bike to the office. Seattle downtown is practically an Amazon jungle.
ilovecaching 4y ago
Now is probably a terrible time to be looking for a job in tech.
- dickersnoodle 4y ago
  It depends. Senior-level people are likely fine, judging by the number of LinkedIn hits I get every week.
- zshrdlu 4y ago
  Are you in the US/Europe? Your job market in tech is utterly unbelievable for people outside those regions, even now. It simply rains (tech) jobs over there in biblical proportions.
AzzieElbab 4y ago
10000 is a lot of people but it is less than 1% of Amazon total employees
- francisofascii 4y ago
  Article mentions 3% of office staff.
  - AzzieElbab 4y ago
    Why does it matter?
mandeepj 4y ago
Slowdown or not, Amazon does not expect people to stick around for long. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1406481956435550210 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1406481956435550210
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  This is literally on the website. They’ll pay you to leave - its not some secret scheme.
  - mandeepj 4y ago
    Pay you to leave is different than a PIP
Juliet245 4y ago

48 points by saikatsg 4y ago

webmobdev 4y ago

Hiring freezes and mass lay-offs - who still believes that we aren't facing a recession?

jacooper 4y ago
I think no one?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
revlolz 4y ago
Partisans playing at mental gymnastics. Both sides are guilty and the people endure reality no matter the narrative. The standard disinformation tactics to dispute definitions of things like 'recession' to focus people onto pointless discussions and debates on how to even spuriously define what recession and inflation are when in reality the prices of food, gasoline, hardware, materials, and you name it have skyrocketed. It doesn't matter which team was in office, the simple truth is compared to 2020 this is where we are and until people accept they might need to figure out how to stay invested into politics longer than election seasons and deeper than news broadcasts, this will endure.
claudiulodro 4y ago
I would say certain industries are facing a recession, but the economy is more than tech. "IRL" fields like hospitality and the trades are having boomtimes and unable to hire or retain employees fast enough e.g. restaurants are short about 3 million workers.
- webmobdev 4y ago
  Understanding America’s Labor Shortage - https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-l... (I do believe that the main reason for labour shortage is mainly because of low pay, especially in restaurants and retail).

xenadu02 4y ago

How did so many companies assume the pandemic/lockdown bump was going to be permanent? It seems obvious that people stuck at home spent money on certain goods and services but that at least some of that money was going to go back whence it came when the pandemic was over. From what I hear some companies didn't go bananas, keeping hiring during the pandemic steady or in some cases below normal for the prior 5 years. I suppose that looks prescient in hindsight. There are few things more damaging than over-hiring followed by layoffs. That usually means an end to the promotion/bonus/stock train having nothing to do with anyone's performance. What's morale like when that bomb drops? Must be good to be in leadership... you get to fail, cause chaos to the business, scare away a lot of your top performers, and still collect millions. A good gig if you can get it. Maybe some of these leaders "taking responsibility" will refuse their stock awards or return their bonuses?

izacus 4y ago
I'm not sure what you're asking here - those companies made bank, the execs got bonuses and they're still profitable. From the perspective of capitalism (which cares nothing about humans being fired), over hiring doesn't seem to be a bad choice at all.
- xenadu02 4y ago
  From a business ownership POV that's bad management and bad for the business. Shouldn't the owners optimize by getting rid of such management? FWIW I know the answer: management typically goes unchecked which is a huge problem. Managers vote themselves money and leave owners with the downside risk. Boards tend to be toothless rubber-stamps. Doesn't mean I have to like it (as an employee or a shareholder).
  - jnwatson 4y ago
    The biggest vulnerability in a corporation is that the interests of management and ownership (the shareholders) aren’t aligned. A common situation repeated over and over is that a manager has the opportunity to take huge risks for a big bonus, yet the worst that can happen is they lose their job. Case in point, it took a small team at AIG only 6 weeks of selling a financial product to bankrupt the 90-year-old company and contribute to the 2008 crash, ultimately leading to a Fed bailout.

jmartin2683 4y ago

Every company I’ve worked for has been overstaffed in engineering to one degree or another. The sad fact is that this is not a 1:1 type of thing… it’s typical for 80% of the output to come from 20% of the team. Many people coast along on their coattails.

_8j50 4y ago
Just to add: silicon valley started the tres of overhiring to drain the talent pool as a competitive advantage and others have followed along.
zshrdlu 4y ago
My observation too with 80/20. In fact - the system seems to be designed to work as such. You'd be going against the grain trying to make things anything other than 80/20. The only concern for individuals is: is being in either group in line with your personal goals?

not_enoch_wise 4y ago

If those office workers wanted jobs so bad, they should have spoken up as amazon transitioned into a brand-knockoff cardtable at scale! Though any staffer speaking out probably would have been PIP’d. Afterall, “leaders are right…a lot.” I blame the warehouse workers! All that unionization effort could have increased their pick rate instead.

_8j50 4y ago

This is what back to office looks like, less profits for everyone. We could be good little wfh consumers instead of fossil fuel guzzlers.

Cwizard 4y ago
That’s a stretch, Amazon has been known for bad quality for years. I have actively been trying to buy less from them since over a year now, I imagine others have as well and for longer. This trend was going to catch up with them eventually. Not saying this is what happened but my theory has just as much evidence as yours.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Never have quality issues from them myself but my point was people order more stuff to accomodate wfh lifestyle because they spend more time in their own homes as opposed to offices maintained and kept up by someone else. A lot of products to help people adapt as well.
sn_master 4y ago
Most of Amazon employees live very near from the office, a substantial amount simply walk or bike to the office. Seattle downtown is practically an Amazon jungle.

ilovecaching 4y ago

Now is probably a terrible time to be looking for a job in tech.

dickersnoodle 4y ago
It depends. Senior-level people are likely fine, judging by the number of LinkedIn hits I get every week.
zshrdlu 4y ago
Are you in the US/Europe? Your job market in tech is utterly unbelievable for people outside those regions, even now. It simply rains (tech) jobs over there in biblical proportions.

AzzieElbab 4y ago

10000 is a lot of people but it is less than 1% of Amazon total employees

francisofascii 4y ago
Article mentions 3% of office staff.
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  Why does it matter?

mandeepj 4y ago

Slowdown or not, Amazon does not expect people to stick around for long. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1406481956435550210 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1406481956435550210

throwayyy479087 4y ago
This is literally on the website. They’ll pay you to leave - its not some secret scheme.
- mandeepj 4y ago
  Pay you to leave is different than a PIP

Juliet245 4y ago