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I have only ever used paypal to pay for things with a credit card. I was tricked into having the account at all by a fraudlent and misleading UI built by ebay a

by harry8 4y ago

I have only ever used paypal to pay for things with a credit card. I was tricked into having the account at all by a fraudlent and misleading UI built by ebay and that's the only reason I had it in the first place. I did use it to pay for some things so I guess their plan worked. Paypal recently, after a decade or so of use, demanded I hand over multiple forms of ID. I refused and said close the account. They refuse to close the account because I have not handed over ID documents that I don't want them to have on their files because they are untrustworthy both ethically and in terms of competence as you guys know well. So the account is there ready to be hacked. I've pointed this out to them on about 20 separate occasions and they refuse to close it. Paypal are crooks. It is in their dna. They're crooks for no reason, just from force of habit. You cannot trust them in any way. Society allowing them to have any market power whatsoever is completely insane. Yet another case of a cpu attached to a network being on the critical path of what some company is doing preventing otherwise intelligent humans from thinking a normal, critical fasshion about what they are doing and forming a minimally appropriate response, trapping the rest of us who literally cannot act at all.

jacooper 4y ago
I think you can force close it using a GDPR request.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  You'll need to prove your identity for that request...
- mometsi 4y ago
  *Invokes GDPR* You don't need to see my identification We don't need to see your identification. We can part ways and go about our business Move along Move along, move along..
ransom1538 4y ago
"So the account is there ready to be hacked." Paypal is for these groups: 1) criminals 2) princes in Nigeria 3) people too lazzy - to setup a merchant account.
- llanowarelves 4y ago
  The problem is their ubiquity for payments (manageable on its own, though some sites only take PayPal), AND the most reliable/usable p2p micropayments UX for non-technical people and international, under one umbrella. Yes there's crypto but good luck getting your parents to use. Unlike in Europe and elsewhere, Americans don't have good (and somewhat standardized UX for) direct payments from bank (e-check sucks), or bank-to-bank. And you'd never want to use wire ($18+) for paying friend back for pizza. What does it leave? CashApp, Zelle, etc. ? And Wise for international. They only address a subset of the latter use case.
  - jsjohnst 4y ago
    > And you'd never want to use wire ($18+) for paying friend back for pizza Sending and receiving wire transfers is free with my bank, but even still no way I’d ever use it for that use case.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    > some sites only take PayPal Wow, really? Never have actually encountered a site like that. So I can only assume it's rare enough such that it wouldn't be much of a hassle to just refuse to do purchase things from those websites.
    - 988747 4y ago
      Manning online bookstore. In theory they support credit card payments, but I guess they are not capable of handling 3D Secure protocol, so my attempt to pay with a credit card always fail with them. Every time I need to buy something from them I would create a temporary PayPal account (which I delete after the transaction :)
Spivak 4y ago
So from PayPal's perspective you signed up for an account willingly, used it happily for ten years, tripped some fraud detection or other where PayPal now thinks the account may have been compromised and locked it, asked for proof of ID to restore access, and you refused, and asked them to close the account. What else do you want them to do? There's a bagillion compromised PayPal accounts actively scamming people. It's why PayPal G&S is the gold standard for buying stuff from people online. Like I get that closing the account seems like a safe action but letting someone who isn't the account owner do anything with the account is bad move.
- gaadd33 4y ago
  Why is Paypal G&S a better standard than normal credit card protection? Also if part of their offerings is something that is the gold standard in fraud detection and similar, why are there a bagillion of compromised accounts?
  - SXX 4y ago
    Normal credit card protections vary from country to country depend on regulations. E.g it's much easier to get chargeback in US than in many other countries. At the same time PayPal is almost aways side with buyer no matter where account was open.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Mostly because individuals don't take CCs. PayPal G&S is some financial fuckery that can give CC like protections to two randos exchanging goods or services ayyy. Like if you buy concert tickets and they never show or don't work, get your money back. Venmo (which is PayPal so not surprising) and FB Marketplace do the same thing.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Being able to dispute online, for one. AFAIK no CC I hold offers a web-based dispute portal.
- bgro 4y ago
  PayPal created an account without ID, they can close an account without ID. Using your logic, couldn't people just open a fraudulent account because they didn't present an ID? That is a much worse outlook. The account (email) that created the PayPal account is requesting it to be deleted, that should be sufficient. If both accounts have been insecurely breached, that's really the user's fault. PayPal could even mark the account as pending deletion after 30 days if we're really worried about this. You shouldn't be able to stand around and blackmail the user for even more personal information to sell or "accidentally leak" to advertisers under the guise of "security."
z3c0 4y ago
> I was tricked into having the account at all by a fraudlent and misleading UI built by ebay They've cut out the middleman and will just trick you directly. I don't have an account but I use it a lot for discogs. Everytime, it goes one of three ways. 1) They have a prechecked "Create Account" option, so that completing the purchase creates an account. 2) They use the classic "big, bold button" dark pattern, so that completing the purchase creates an account. 3) They require creating an account to complete the purchase. I've cancelled orders over this one. It hasn't even been a progression. I've seen all three recently, and which one I get seems to be a dice roll.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  >3) They require creating an account to complete the purchase. I've cancelled orders over this one. Likewise.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by harry8 4y ago

jacooper 4y ago

I think you can force close it using a GDPR request.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
You'll need to prove your identity for that request...
mometsi 4y ago
*Invokes GDPR* You don't need to see my identification We don't need to see your identification. We can part ways and go about our business Move along Move along, move along..

ransom1538 4y ago

"So the account is there ready to be hacked." Paypal is for these groups: 1) criminals 2) princes in Nigeria 3) people too lazzy - to setup a merchant account.

llanowarelves 4y ago
The problem is their ubiquity for payments (manageable on its own, though some sites only take PayPal), AND the most reliable/usable p2p micropayments UX for non-technical people and international, under one umbrella. Yes there's crypto but good luck getting your parents to use. Unlike in Europe and elsewhere, Americans don't have good (and somewhat standardized UX for) direct payments from bank (e-check sucks), or bank-to-bank. And you'd never want to use wire ($18+) for paying friend back for pizza. What does it leave? CashApp, Zelle, etc. ? And Wise for international. They only address a subset of the latter use case.
- jsjohnst 4y ago
  > And you'd never want to use wire ($18+) for paying friend back for pizza Sending and receiving wire transfers is free with my bank, but even still no way I’d ever use it for that use case.
- kelnos 4y ago
  > some sites only take PayPal Wow, really? Never have actually encountered a site like that. So I can only assume it's rare enough such that it wouldn't be much of a hassle to just refuse to do purchase things from those websites.
  - 988747 4y ago
    Manning online bookstore. In theory they support credit card payments, but I guess they are not capable of handling 3D Secure protocol, so my attempt to pay with a credit card always fail with them. Every time I need to buy something from them I would create a temporary PayPal account (which I delete after the transaction :)

Spivak 4y ago

So from PayPal's perspective you signed up for an account willingly, used it happily for ten years, tripped some fraud detection or other where PayPal now thinks the account may have been compromised and locked it, asked for proof of ID to restore access, and you refused, and asked them to close the account. What else do you want them to do? There's a bagillion compromised PayPal accounts actively scamming people. It's why PayPal G&S is the gold standard for buying stuff from people online. Like I get that closing the account seems like a safe action but letting someone who isn't the account owner do anything with the account is bad move.

gaadd33 4y ago
Why is Paypal G&S a better standard than normal credit card protection? Also if part of their offerings is something that is the gold standard in fraud detection and similar, why are there a bagillion of compromised accounts?
- SXX 4y ago
  Normal credit card protections vary from country to country depend on regulations. E.g it's much easier to get chargeback in US than in many other countries. At the same time PayPal is almost aways side with buyer no matter where account was open.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Mostly because individuals don't take CCs. PayPal G&S is some financial fuckery that can give CC like protections to two randos exchanging goods or services ayyy. Like if you buy concert tickets and they never show or don't work, get your money back. Venmo (which is PayPal so not surprising) and FB Marketplace do the same thing.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Being able to dispute online, for one. AFAIK no CC I hold offers a web-based dispute portal.
bgro 4y ago
PayPal created an account without ID, they can close an account without ID. Using your logic, couldn't people just open a fraudulent account because they didn't present an ID? That is a much worse outlook. The account (email) that created the PayPal account is requesting it to be deleted, that should be sufficient. If both accounts have been insecurely breached, that's really the user's fault. PayPal could even mark the account as pending deletion after 30 days if we're really worried about this. You shouldn't be able to stand around and blackmail the user for even more personal information to sell or "accidentally leak" to advertisers under the guise of "security."

z3c0 4y ago

> I was tricked into having the account at all by a fraudlent and misleading UI built by ebay They've cut out the middleman and will just trick you directly. I don't have an account but I use it a lot for discogs. Everytime, it goes one of three ways. 1) They have a prechecked "Create Account" option, so that completing the purchase creates an account. 2) They use the classic "big, bold button" dark pattern, so that completing the purchase creates an account. 3) They require creating an account to complete the purchase. I've cancelled orders over this one. It hasn't even been a progression. I've seen all three recently, and which one I get seems to be a dice roll.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
>3) They require creating an account to complete the purchase. I've cancelled orders over this one. Likewise.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]