3 ms·

My main question is if the vaccine side effects are just a much milder version of what would happen if you got COVID as opposed to something vaccine specific.

by dayvid 4y ago

My main question is if the vaccine side effects are just a much milder version of what would happen if you got COVID as opposed to something vaccine specific. If that's the case, then there would be more myocarditis issues from people not vaccinating. I haven't received a straight answer on this.

mrtesthah 4y ago
>...then there would be more myocarditis issues from people not vaccinating... Yes. Myocarditis seven times more likely with COVID-19 than vaccines https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801 Myocarditis Risk 17 Times Higher for Unvaccinated Patients Ages 12-30 Who Get COVID-19 Than COVID-Vaccinated Patients https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/myocarditis-risk-17-times-higher-for-unvaccinated-patients-ages-12-30-who-get-covid-19-than-covid-vaccinated-patients https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/myocarditis-risk-17-ti... Myocarditis risk significantly higher after COVID-19 infection vs. after a COVID-19 vaccine | American Heart Association https://newsroom.heart.org/news/myocarditis-risk-significantly-higher-after-covid-19-infection-vs-after-a-covid-19-vaccine https://newsroom.heart.org/news/myocarditis-risk-significant...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  I wonder why those studies differ from this one, that did not find a higher incidence in myocarditis in COVID patients. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/
  - russdill 4y ago
    The numbers in this study end up being relatively small as there are only 200k people involved. "Nine post-COVID-19 patients developed myocarditis".
  - mrtesthah 4y ago
    The studies I cited include 58 million, 15 million, and 43 million people, respectively. The study you cite is just 200k people.
sfusato 4y ago
"Retrospective cohort study of 196,992 adults after COVID-19 infection in Israel between March 2020 and January 2021. [...] We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection." Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/
russdill 4y ago
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... "Myocarditis is more common after severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection than after COVID-19 vaccination, but the risks in younger people and after sequential vaccine doses are less certain." The study size is 43M people.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Attaching that quote to that study, without the appropriate context, is disinformation. The study didn't look at the risk of COVID infection in unvaccinated individuals. All this study proved is that COVID infection can trigger cardiovascular issues in vaccinated people. It doesn't indicate in any way that the cardiovascular issues were caused by COVID instead of the vaccine. You'd have to look at infected-but-not-vaccinated patients to have even a hope of answering that question. Of course, the study was essentially designed to elicit that disinformative quote, so I guess that means you're not entirely to blame...?
  - russdill 4y ago
    The study includes vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals and documents respective risks. It spells this out explicitly in the Results paragraph: "but was lower than the risks after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test before or after vaccination (11.14 [95% CI, 8.64–14.36] and 5.97 [95% CI, 4.54–7.87], respectively)." And more extensively in summary: "First, the risk of myocarditis is substantially higher after SARS-CoV-2 infection in unvaccinated individuals than the increase in risk observed after a first dose of ChAdOx1nCoV-19 vaccine, and a first, second, or booster dose of BNT162b2 vaccine. Second, although the risk of myocarditis with SARS-CoV-2 infection remains after vaccination, it was substantially reduced, suggesting vaccination provides some protection from the cardiovascular consequences of SARS-CoV-2. Third, in contrast with other vaccines, the risk of myocarditis observed 1 to 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine was higher and similar to the risk after infection. Last, vaccine-associated myocarditis was largely restricted to men younger than 40 years with 1 exception; both younger men and women were at increased risk of myocarditis after a second dose of mRNA-1273." It does so by including "5,934,153 had SARS-CoV-2 infection before or after vaccination."

by dayvid 4y ago

mrtesthah 4y ago

>...then there would be more myocarditis issues from people not vaccinating... Yes. Myocarditis seven times more likely with COVID-19 than vaccines https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/967801 Myocarditis Risk 17 Times Higher for Unvaccinated Patients Ages 12-30 Who Get COVID-19 Than COVID-Vaccinated Patients https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/myocarditis-risk-17-times-higher-for-unvaccinated-patients-ages-12-30-who-get-covid-19-than-covid-vaccinated-patients https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/myocarditis-risk-17-ti... Myocarditis risk significantly higher after COVID-19 infection vs. after a COVID-19 vaccine | American Heart Association https://newsroom.heart.org/news/myocarditis-risk-significantly-higher-after-covid-19-infection-vs-after-a-covid-19-vaccine https://newsroom.heart.org/news/myocarditis-risk-significant...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nonethewiser 4y ago
I wonder why those studies differ from this one, that did not find a higher incidence in myocarditis in COVID patients. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/
- russdill 4y ago
  The numbers in this study end up being relatively small as there are only 200k people involved. "Nine post-COVID-19 patients developed myocarditis".
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  The studies I cited include 58 million, 15 million, and 43 million people, respectively. The study you cite is just 200k people.

sfusato 4y ago

"Retrospective cohort study of 196,992 adults after COVID-19 infection in Israel between March 2020 and January 2021. [...] We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection." Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/

russdill 4y ago

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... "Myocarditis is more common after severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection than after COVID-19 vaccination, but the risks in younger people and after sequential vaccine doses are less certain." The study size is 43M people.

puffoflogic 4y ago
Attaching that quote to that study, without the appropriate context, is disinformation. The study didn't look at the risk of COVID infection in unvaccinated individuals. All this study proved is that COVID infection can trigger cardiovascular issues in vaccinated people. It doesn't indicate in any way that the cardiovascular issues were caused by COVID instead of the vaccine. You'd have to look at infected-but-not-vaccinated patients to have even a hope of answering that question. Of course, the study was essentially designed to elicit that disinformative quote, so I guess that means you're not entirely to blame...?
- russdill 4y ago
  The study includes vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals and documents respective risks. It spells this out explicitly in the Results paragraph: "but was lower than the risks after a positive SARS-CoV-2 test before or after vaccination (11.14 [95% CI, 8.64–14.36] and 5.97 [95% CI, 4.54–7.87], respectively)." And more extensively in summary: "First, the risk of myocarditis is substantially higher after SARS-CoV-2 infection in unvaccinated individuals than the increase in risk observed after a first dose of ChAdOx1nCoV-19 vaccine, and a first, second, or booster dose of BNT162b2 vaccine. Second, although the risk of myocarditis with SARS-CoV-2 infection remains after vaccination, it was substantially reduced, suggesting vaccination provides some protection from the cardiovascular consequences of SARS-CoV-2. Third, in contrast with other vaccines, the risk of myocarditis observed 1 to 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine was higher and similar to the risk after infection. Last, vaccine-associated myocarditis was largely restricted to men younger than 40 years with 1 exception; both younger men and women were at increased risk of myocarditis after a second dose of mRNA-1273." It does so by including "5,934,153 had SARS-CoV-2 infection before or after vaccination."