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Wrap Up: Bicycle trip logistics
- the_cat_kittles 4y agothis is a really entertaining and descriptive summary of the nuts and bolts of bike touring through south america written by a friend of mine. i recommend the whole blog!
- peterispedaling 4y agoThanks, bud!
- matsemann 4y agoHow would a different kind of bike setup fare? Like tubeless, or belt-driven etc, any gains doing untraditional things? Of course, one value in doing it plain is it's easy to fix and get parts anywhere.
- flylikeabanana 4y ago> one value in doing it plain is it's easy to fix and get parts anywhere That's probably the main value. In the article it says he waited three days for a bike chain - I imagine it would have been even longer waiting for a belt. Belts also limit you to single-sprocket rear wheels since they don't work with derailers - hub gears can be reliable (see the legendary Rohloff hubs) but they're expensive and add another difficult-to-source part to the build in case something goes wrong. There's even something of a cult myth in touring that steel frames are superior since they could be theoretically fixed by anyone with a welder. I'm not sure if I've ever heard of this in practice, though.
- pixelbreaker 4y agoI have a pinion gearboxed mountain bike with belt drive, 10000km and going strong, same belt.
- danw1979 4y agowouldn’t a spare belt be quite light to pack anyway ?
- ilyt 4y agoProblem is that if anything else breaks you're pretty fucked if there is no good bike repair shop nearby. Chain can go few k already so just getting it replaced at start of big trip is enough
- bwb 4y agoSame here, I am at half that on a touring bike. Belts are amazing! I do carry a spare on tours
- Xylakant 4y agoI made around 11000 km with a belt on a cargo bike before selling it and the belt on the current one is at ~6000km. Belts are amazing, especially when it comes to maintenance. But I would still avoid going with a belt on a tour anywhere that’s remote - not because the belt itself might break, but the hub (as for this guy), or a sprocket or anything that is uncommon, but required when riding a belt.
- ciupicri 4y agoWhat mountain bike do you have?
- dont__panic 4y agoI would guess the Priority 600X adventure: https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/600x https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/600x As far as I know, that's the only mountain bike sold with a pinion + belt drive stock.
- ciupicri 4y agoNicolai also manufactures mountain bikes with a Pinion gearbox and a Gates belt: - HT Argon GTB Pinion https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/argon-gtb-pinion/ https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/argon-gtb-pinion/ - FS SATURN 11 GPI https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/saturn-11-gpi-2023/ https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/saturn-11-gpi-2023/ - FS SATURN 14 GPI https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/saturn-14-gpi/ https://en.nicolai-bicycles.com/bike/saturn-14-gpi/
- loeg 4y agoThis isn't a ton of miles for the period of time; the main complication is that he's doing it in rural areas, carrying a bunch of gear, in a foreign country. Given that scenario, bike tourers frequently opt for the equipment most likely to have replacement parts available. Which means boring, conventional stuff.
- Arainach 4y agoIt is a ton of miles for the period of time, because it's an average including all stops. If something breaks, you lose time. If you get sick, you lose time. If you get saddle sores, you lose time. Doing that many miles without a serious injury that sidelines you for weeks is a skill in itself. Many people, with at most a month of practice, could survive riding 40-100 miles in a day, but many of them would be so worn out or would injure some sort of muscle such that they couldn't do 2 in a row - much less 200. Citation: I've done a variety of 200-400 mile community group rides and seen people in all sorts of shape, but have done it enough times with enough different people to see a diverse number of outcomes.
- loeg 4y agoIt's remarkable for untrained, absolute beginners -- sure. But I have friends who do 15,000 miles/year, for example.
- dheera 4y agoI've done long distance rides in Asia and I'd strongly suggest using as standard parts as possible, for exactly that reason: the bike shop in some middle-of-nowhere village will likely have something you can use. When long distance touring you're also usually pulling around a fair amount of baggage, so don't bother trying to save a few hundred grams here and there on bike components if it isn't standard stuff.
- peterispedaling 4y agoHi! I wrote the post. I was pleasantly surprised how widespread the pads for mechanical disc brakes are, the rotors, and a 10-speed chain. In general, a complete new 26" or 29" MTB wheel is going to be readily accessible.
- wl 4y agoTubeless is probably the least problematic of the newfangled bike tech when it comes to bike touring in remote areas. You get the benefit that most punctures will seal themselves. If the puncture is too severe for the sealant to work, you can easily convert to a conventional setup with a tube.
- exabrial 4y agoI agree with this, but you do need to "refill sealent" every 3-6months. The fallback from tubeless->tubed is an advantage that I've used for both recreational and racing. The other nice thing about tubeless is less rotational mass, meaning less caloric burn.
- akgerber 4y agoOne popular bike touring writer is a big fan of belt drives: https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive-best-bicycle-drivetrain/ https://www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive-best-bicycle-drivetr... I started a long tour across Europe with my bike set up tubeless and gave up about halfway through. Even in Europe, access to consistent sealant to top up inconsistent, and reseating a tubeless bead with portable tools is difficult when possible. And one still needs to carry tubes in case of tubeless failure, which is generally messy. Tubeless ideally trades less roadside maintenance for more at-home maintenance. Alternate ways to reduce flat risk while touring include armored touring tires (which can be somewhat slower & less comfortable due to how stiff they are) and/or by adding sealant to one's tubes.
- dvzk 4y agoTires and rims differ substantially but you often don't need to reseat the tire bead if you remove the valve core and inject sealant through the stem. High volume hand pumps and soap can usually seat tires in place of CO2 cartridges. If you do need to insert a tube, the mess from the sealant makes life absolutely miserable, you're totally right.
- Toutouxc 4y agoTopping up, reseating? My experience with tubeless (on a mountain bike) is that I buy a new set of tires, pour some sealant in (Stan's NoTubes), put them on a bike and then ride until there's no tread left. I don't think I've ever had the sealant dry up. And that's with a regular rim meant to be used with tubes, converted to tubeless with an aftermarket kit. I agree with having to carry a tube or two in case the tire fails catastrophically, but other than that I consider tubeless bulletproof. No experience with touring though.
- haspok 4y agoWondering what "long tour" means here, because you usually don't need sealant top-up very often - maybe once or twice a year in my experience. You have to pump tubeless tires regularly though (lose pressure more quickly than an inner tube), BUT in exchange you need a severe encounter with something extreme to get a real puncture. I had travelled with finger-sized nails in my tires without even recognizing it...
- dvzk 4y agoHow feasible are tubeless setups on long tours? I'm curious. Anyone who MTBs knows about the dramatic improvement. In just the past year I would have had 50+ flats using tubes. I'm positive because I pull out thorns by the dozen. None require patching since the sealant fills the submillimeter holes immediately. Being able to locally resupply with a compatible sealant is the main impediment. 4-8oz spare fluid in a packed bottle covers one refill. How often do you need to replenish sealant on wheels being used all day every day in mixed weather?
- t0ps0il 4y ago> How feasible are tubeless setups on long tours? Very in my opinion, but I'm coming from a bike packers perspective. Start the route tubeless and run it until it fails. When that happens throw a spare tube (that you should be carrying anyways) in it. If that goes flat, patch it. Converting back to tubes is easy: take the value stem out -> put in tube. Yes, it's messier but it's not like you're showering regularly anyways. > Being able to locally resupply with a compatible sealant is the main impediment I would think that tubeless setup + plugs with spare tubes + a patch kit would get you far enough for this to not be a major issue. Carrying a small bottle of sealant would help. Worst case, you run tubes the rest of the trip. Note: These are just my thoughts as a (formerly) sponsored bike packer.
- peterispedaling 4y agoHi! I wrote the post. I had a friend talk to me about tubeless before I went, and I'm happy I didn't do it. The sealant would need to be replenished. And the first real gash would mean going back to a tube. I was super happy with the Tannus liners (13mm of protection) despite adding some weight and rigidity (the bike was already a tank).
- haspok 4y ago> The bike was taken in to a mechanic for a full tune-up seven times, and for small things a few more visits. Considering this, a tubeless sealant top-up at each of these visits would have been no extra chore. Just sayin' :)
- peterispedaling 4y agoGotcha! It was impressive how fancy gear mountain biking is popular in all the big cities along the Andes. They "road bike" on MTBs a lot. In Colombia they are nuts for cycling and have some seriously pricey rides. Definitely the sealant is in all the big cities. Some of my tune-ups were in small towns.
- usrusr 4y agoOne radically different approach would be going for low weight, basically the bikes you'd see in road racing with some minor changes for longevity. For 10k miles you'd want to carry two replacement chains and three or four tires (not pairs), and a generous amount of tubes (the author's argument against tubeless is perfectly valid, they are only tubeless until they are not). Even with all routine spare parts (and some selected not-so-routine) much lighter than the "unbreakable heavy duty" bikes that keep breaking in surprising ways, 10k miles isn't much to those fragile-looking speed machines. But the caveat is that you'd have to radically minimize luggage, because if you'd pack the fragile-looking like the seemingly unbreakable, they would quickly cease being fragile-looking. Just like the seemingly unbreakable would completely fail to disappoint, without the load they usually get burdened with. (bags impose far more stress on the bike per unit of mass than the rider, because the rider separates his mass from the bike with active, predictive suspension while the bags just hang on)
- dvzk 4y agoAssuming that you still want offroad capability, you basically just described a cyclocross bike. And going on an ultralight tour on a modified CX bike sounds super fun!
- rubyn00bie 4y agoThe title on HN seems to deviate from the one on the page. I say that because that's only 24 miles a day, and I've known plenty of people who bike commute and do _at least_ that. The article itself, IMHO, is also more interesting than the amount of miles biked.
- mikepurvis 4y agoRiding 24mi (39km) a day for a few weeks is one thing, but sustaining that for over a year, including making up for days off due to weather, mechanical trouble, whatever is what makes this interesting IMO.
- soperj 4y agoThere was a guy in Canada (Al Howie) who RAN about two and a half times (105km) that far every day for two and a half months(72 days, 10 hours). 2 weeks after he finished he set a world record in a 1300 mile race.
- barry-cotter 4y agoDocumentary? Article? He must have spent most of his waking hours running to do that. I’d be interested to read about his (lack of) injuries, never mind anything else.
- satori99 4y agoIn the 1980's, a 61yo Australian potato farmer won an 875km (544m) race between Sydney and Melbourne in 5 days flat without ever stopping to eat or sleep. He used a radical low energy shuffling technique, which was a slower pace then his competitors, but he made up for it during the 5 or 6 hours they slept each day. He ended up winning by 10 hours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete)
- dont__panic 4y agoAnd of course there's the element of "carrying literally all of your clothes, water, shelter, and food" on the bicycle for the whole year. You might carry your laptop and a change of clothes to work, but probably not multiple litres of water!
- insane_dreamer 4y ago> I had a month where I sent only one email. All month. this might be the best line in the article :)
- Ptchd 4y agoI was sending emails daily in the year 2000.... then I probably went 6 months without any internet.... I think I lost my rocketmail.com account during that time because of innactivity.
- jamiek88 4y agoHa, if I ever get my tiscali.co.uk back (I won’t) I’d have some great memories ! Did the same as you. This was all pre gmail and webmail providers were stingy.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ericmcer 4y agoI think you mean 9833km? South America is not that long unless he was riding in circles around it or something.
- defrost 4y agoFrom the author|rider [0]: > After 13 months, and 15,825 kilometers of pedaling, my South America bike tour is finished! that's 9,833 miles. The road distance distance from Cartagena, Columbia to Ushuaia [1] is ~ 10,433 km (by Google) so the actual distance pedalled over 13 months seems reasonable given side trips, indirect paths, back tracking, non main roads, etc. [1] [0] https://www.peterispedaling.com/blog/wet-wheels https://www.peterispedaling.com/blog/wet-wheels [1] https://www.peterispedaling.com/the-ride https://www.peterispedaling.com/the-ride
- peterispedaling 4y agoHi! I wrote the post. The other reply got it right. But I did do some circles! ;)
- hnthrowaway0315 4y agoJust curious. For a similar bit shorter travel across Canada from east to west during summer, is there any recommended commercial bike? (commercial bike means can buy in Costco/Canadian Tire/individual bike shops and not too expensive, say under 3000 CAD)
- newsclues 4y agoa touring bike is what you want, lots of brands make them, find a local shop and try a few to see what you like.
- calt 4y agoThe Surly Long Haul Trucker is a favorite base bike. Getting the bags and racks etc won't be included. A good local bike shop would be my bet.
- hnthrowaway0315 4y agoThanks, I'll check local shops. They are probably more familiar with the road and equipment needed.
- wiredfool 4y agoThe Surly he was riding isn’t a bad choice. They’re pretty stout, and have all the necessary braze ons for racks and fenders. You’re going to need panniers and/or frame bags, though current style is to put a bit more weight on the front than he seemed to have.
- gnfurlong 4y agoMost of the popular touring bikes fit your budget. Really you're just looking for durable, a wide gear range and the capacity to mount gear. Surly disc trucker has historically been one of the most popular as an example, but there are a lot of others. Also, it can absolutely be done with cheaper. My partner and I finished a 4800 mile trip last year. I used a second hand cyclocross bike that I got off craiglist for ~500 a few years ago. She had a road bike that she bought for 200 from the local bike project.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- glaucon 4y ago> "and attended a Spanish table" I'd be curious to know what this means, it's outside of my experience.
- akgerber 4y agoLikely a regular meeting in a cafe or library at which people practice their Spanish.
- glaucon 4y agoThank you.
- tomcam 4y agoI too immediately looked it up. No obvious match. Maybe it’s just dinner with someone in Spain?
- peterispedaling 4y agoHi! I wrote the post. Yes, this was a weekly meeting at a community center where language learners speak, or nearly fluent people. Ideally a mix, and people can make corrections.
- glaucon 4y agoThank you.
- dekhn 4y agoRecently a person I know celebrated climbing to space by bike in a year- their total climbed altitude was ~50miles which is generally recognized as the edge of space. I misremembered and claimed they had climbed to the moon by bike in a year. That's about 650 miles per day, every day, for a year. It's likely beyond the world's best cyclists (the record is 637 miles in a single day, but not sustained over multiple days).
- insane_dreamer 4y agoReminded me an ultra cycling event in the Pyrenees called 8848 where riders climb an altitude of 8848 meters (roughly the height of Everest) in a single long day (with rest stops, but not sleeping overnight).
- prostanac 4y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everesting
- jamiek88 4y agoYou’d be doing well to drive a car 250k miles in a year, never mind ride a bike!
- layer8 4y agoThis made me realize that you don't actually need to reach escape velocity to leave Earth.
- dendrite9 4y agoI used to be on a running listserve that included monthly(quarterly?) updates on the million mile run. That kind of record keeping was beyond me, and I wasn't a terribly driven runner except in competition with a few friends. Still the scale of the race was hard to wrap my head around and you reminded me of it. http://ice.he.net/~mmahoney/ultra/million.htm http://ice.he.net/~mmahoney/ultra/million.htm
- throwaway22032 4y ago
- walrus01 4y agoFrom the photo of the shoe, unless I'm wrong, this guy is using a crank brothers eggbeater system MTB shoe and cleat system which is very popular for hybrid road/touring/MTB purposes where you want a shoe you can walk in. I've rarely seen 3-bolt full road cleat systems used for touring because the shoes designed for road cycling are not walkable at all.
- peterispedaling 4y agoYep, the Crankbrothers Mallett so I could also use the pedal in my other shoes. The shoe that broke wasn't durable enough but a Specialized one lasted the rest of the way. It was like a hiking shoe. I bought spare cleats at a shop once along the way but never needed them.
- hondo77 4y agoThey're not walkable because the are designed for cycling long distances in a day. Some find the eggbeater platform doesn't work for long distances because the platform isn't as big as SPD or SPD-SL pedals. Not everyone is planning on doing big daily mileage when touring so it depends on the rider.
- walrus01 4y agonotably the eggbeater with a platform (Candy series) pedal has much more surface area for a MTB style shoe to press on than the bare eggbeater, and is popular for touring. https://www.crankbrothers.com/collections/candy https://www.crankbrothers.com/collections/candy It's marketed and sold as a gravel/XC MTB pedal but has many other uses.
- dont__panic 4y agoFlats are increasingly popular for touring as well. Turns out that unless you're trying to maximize efficiency at race levels, flats work pretty damn well. And even for racing, the value of clipless pedals is dubious compared to a decent-sized flat. I suppose weight weenies shy away because a decent flat is probably twice the weight of a decent clipless pedal. Deity black kats are 402 grams, whereas the most popular Shimano clipless pedal is 228 grams. I do a lot of my touring and even bikepacking in vibram-soled sandals. Socks get so smelly even after a day or two that it's better to just go without them IMO.
- jwcacces 4y agoI have that bell, it makes a beautiful sound. It's not quite loud enough, but it's real problem is that its spring is the only thing holding the striker on, and that gets bent out of shape way too easily. Plus it was way too expensive for being a bell...
- peterispedaling 4y agoHi! I wrote the post. I agree. I got a $3 bell later (kinda like a hamburger) and it lasted forever. The beautiful bell may go on a sophisticated city bike distant in my future. (Oh, also, Knog replaced it.)
- stevenwoo 4y agoI have it on one bike, have the same issues. The stamped metal bells (Incredibell) with a plastic base are louder, are cheaper and are easier to actuate and are sturdier.
- the_cat_kittles 4y agowow great job dang, way to make the title completely uninteresting
- googlryas 4y agoIt's only a slightly modified real title of the article, just giving context of it being about bicycles