3 ms·

Canada might be our neighbor but it’s wildly different from a population and care perspective.

by Q6T46nT668w6i3m 4y ago

canadiantim 4y ago
Why is that the case? Moderna is good for Americans under 30 but not Canadians under 30?
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  Could it be because lifestyle factors in the US put more u30 at risk of dying from Covid than in Canada? Or that the most vulnerable populations in Canada still have access to healthcare if they do need a ventilator? Genuinely hypothesizing, I am not sure of the answer but that’s what came to mind when I read your question.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Access to ventilators or lack thereof has no significant impact on death rates. Very few patients are put on ventilators now since those are considered salvage therapy only used when all else has failed. The initial focus on ventilators early in the pandemic was misguided and not based on any reliable evidence.
    - edmundsauto 4y ago
      > The initial focus on ventilators early in the pandemic was misguided and not based on any reliable evidence. Was there reliable evidence to the contrary during the initial infection window (2020)? (IE, anything showing that vents don't help)
      - TMWNN 4y ago
        Yes. <https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...> was completely vindicated in retrospect.
      - nradov 4y ago
        You're not quite asking the right question. In 2020 there was no reliable evidence to favor early use of invasive mechanical ventilation over other therapies. Some clinicians were quick to put patients on invasive ventilators because they wrongly assumed that non-invasive devices would increase the risk of virus transmission to hospital workers. https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2021/non-invasive-ventilation-for-covid-19-patients-isnt-linked-to-heightened-infection-risk https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2021/non-invasive-ventilat... https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-2600(20)30181-8 https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-2600(20)30181-8 As with most other aspects of pandemic management, people made bad assumptions and jumped to incorrect conclusions based on little real evidence. No one is claiming that ventilators don't help. They have been an effective salvage therapy in some cases where less aggressive treatments failed. But at the population level the number of patients who actually survived only because they were put on a ventilator is so small that it didn't have a major impact on survival rates.

Canada might be our neighbor but it’s wildly different from a population and care perspective.

canadiantim 4y ago

Why is that the case? Moderna is good for Americans under 30 but not Canadians under 30?

edmundsauto 4y ago
Could it be because lifestyle factors in the US put more u30 at risk of dying from Covid than in Canada? Or that the most vulnerable populations in Canada still have access to healthcare if they do need a ventilator? Genuinely hypothesizing, I am not sure of the answer but that’s what came to mind when I read your question.
- nradov 4y ago
  Access to ventilators or lack thereof has no significant impact on death rates. Very few patients are put on ventilators now since those are considered salvage therapy only used when all else has failed. The initial focus on ventilators early in the pandemic was misguided and not based on any reliable evidence.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    > The initial focus on ventilators early in the pandemic was misguided and not based on any reliable evidence. Was there reliable evidence to the contrary during the initial infection window (2020)? (IE, anything showing that vents don't help)
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      Yes. <https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-...> was completely vindicated in retrospect.
    - nradov 4y ago
      You're not quite asking the right question. In 2020 there was no reliable evidence to favor early use of invasive mechanical ventilation over other therapies. Some clinicians were quick to put patients on invasive ventilators because they wrongly assumed that non-invasive devices would increase the risk of virus transmission to hospital workers. https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2021/non-invasive-ventilation-for-covid-19-patients-isnt-linked-to-heightened-infection-risk https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2021/non-invasive-ventilat... https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-2600(20)30181-8 https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-2600(20)30181-8 As with most other aspects of pandemic management, people made bad assumptions and jumped to incorrect conclusions based on little real evidence. No one is claiming that ventilators don't help. They have been an effective salvage therapy in some cases where less aggressive treatments failed. But at the population level the number of patients who actually survived only because they were put on a ventilator is so small that it didn't have a major impact on survival rates.