9 ms·

Covid has killed millions. How many have died of myocarditis? While I agree with your sentiment, it's hyperbolic to claim the vaccine has done "exponentially m

Covid has killed millions. How many have died of myocarditis? While I agree with your sentiment, it's hyperbolic to claim the vaccine has done "exponentially more damage than the virus".

anon291 4y ago
- flir 4y ago
  Well that's surgery out the window.
- TehCorwiz 4y ago
  Chemo Therapy is literally poisoning you just enough to kill the cancer. The anti-arthritis medications I take cause terrible side effects. These options are still better than the underlying problems. Throwing out pithy feel good quotes doesn't capture the nuance of the line that doctors walk when trying to treat illnesses. "Do no harm" is the ideal. In reality it's to do less harm than the disease.
  - chedca21 4y ago
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Ioannidis was wrong, though. Drastically so. Analyzing excess deaths make it very clear it's not the same severity as severe flu; see the chart half-way down on https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm. At the time, he wrote (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-a...): > Some worry that the 68 deaths from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of March 16 will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000 … along with similar catastrophic patterns around the globe. Is that a realistic scenario, or bad science fiction? How can we tell at what point such a curve might stop? It did exactly that.
  - tibbydudeza 4y ago
    It reminds me of how Japanese honeybees kill hornets - they overheat it by swarming it and flapping their wings vigorously to transfer body heat and cook it alive. They fortunately can tolerate a few degrees higher core temperature than the hornet - it can't be good for the bees but if your lifespan is 60 days.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  This is not a good rule if taken to the extreme. Almost all medical procedures have an associated risk, some higher. The key question is whether the risk outweighs the benefits.
NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
Millions die every year for we are mortal and numerous. Thankfully, the world's population grew during the pandemic. 210,000 to 448,000 Americans die every year to preventable medical errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#Annual_number_of_deaths_and_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#An... This is more people than COVID kills in the same time period, but strangely there's no panic about that. No mandates. No significant steps from any authorities to do anything about it. Perhaps because there's no money in that, unlike pushing a remedy for something that's not as significant as people feel. edit: Since HN is ratelimiting me and not letting me reply to the below, here's the reply I've tried posting after an hour of "slowing down": Checklists: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/checklists-can-reduce-fatal-medical-errors-19080 https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/checklists-can-reduce-fata... The same thing NASA uses to prevent human error: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19910001641 https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19910001641 Mandatory checklists would wipe out most of them, yet there's no mandate for them.
- cableshaft 4y ago
  What would be the mandate for user error (which is what 'preventable medical errors' boils down to), beyond an ongoing attempt to improve procedures in hospitals which I'm sure they're already doing, especially since the US is very litigious and they often get sued for malpractice. Humans are messy, can't hold all knowledge about everything in their heads at all times, and error prone. Unless you replace them entirely you're not going to be able to eliminate medical errors.
  - Fomite 4y ago
    There are a staggering number of mandates and regulations around preventable medical errors. One that has been absolutely defining is CMS not compensating for healthcare-associated infections. Also, many hospitals view things like infection control or antimicrobial stewardship as cost centers, and they're not doing nearly as much as they can.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Hint: if you don't want to "slow down", just don't post anything dang disagrees with or might disagree with. Works every time.
calculatte 4y ago
With the way the numbers around Covid and Covid deaths were cooked, there is no way to determine how many died from Covid. Excess mortality is higher now than during Covid https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-higher-now-than-during-covid/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-hi... There is evidence of statistical lies perpetuated to benefit big pharma. - The extreme false positive rate of COVID testing - Blindly combining "of" and "with" Covid cases for cause of death based on those same broken tests. - Influenza, pneumonia magically took a couple of years off during Covid - PCR testing cycles at extreme highs When all of the broken testing was finally admitted and discontinued, were the previous misclassified deaths reinvestigated or reclassified? Of course not. The entire pool of data of Covid deaths has been poisoned. There is no interest in accuracy. But there does seem to be extreme interest in protecting the liability and profits of the pharma companies that coerced unproven, untested, ineffective "cures" that do not prevent infection, spread, or reduce symptoms.
- AustinDev 4y ago
  Just a meta comment. This exact comment 1 year ago would have been downvoted until it was dead. However, much of the evidence for this was available at that time. I sadly think we'll continue to see excess deaths climb over the coming years particularly in the US. I'm glad I only got the J&J shot way back when it came out and avoided 3+ rounds of Pfizer or Moderna primary and boosters.
  - calculatte 4y ago
    It seems the only difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact is about 18 months now.
    - dzader 4y ago
      you need to get off the internet for a few hours a day buddy
    - Izkata 4y ago
      Depending on the exact claim it's often more like 12 months. A few even made it down to 6 months (affecting periods, for example) and I think one was as low as 2 months.

Covid has killed millions. How many have died of myocarditis? While I agree with your sentiment, it's hyperbolic to claim the vaccine has done "exponentially more damage than the virus".

anon291 4y ago

flir 4y ago
Well that's surgery out the window.
TehCorwiz 4y ago
Chemo Therapy is literally poisoning you just enough to kill the cancer. The anti-arthritis medications I take cause terrible side effects. These options are still better than the underlying problems. Throwing out pithy feel good quotes doesn't capture the nuance of the line that doctors walk when trying to treat illnesses. "Do no harm" is the ideal. In reality it's to do less harm than the disease.
- chedca21 4y ago
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Ioannidis was wrong, though. Drastically so. Analyzing excess deaths make it very clear it's not the same severity as severe flu; see the chart half-way down on https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm. At the time, he wrote (https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-a...): > Some worry that the 68 deaths from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of March 16 will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000 … along with similar catastrophic patterns around the globe. Is that a realistic scenario, or bad science fiction? How can we tell at what point such a curve might stop? It did exactly that.
- tibbydudeza 4y ago
  It reminds me of how Japanese honeybees kill hornets - they overheat it by swarming it and flapping their wings vigorously to transfer body heat and cook it alive. They fortunately can tolerate a few degrees higher core temperature than the hornet - it can't be good for the bees but if your lifespan is 60 days.
Xylakant 4y ago
This is not a good rule if taken to the extreme. Almost all medical procedures have an associated risk, some higher. The key question is whether the risk outweighs the benefits.

NaturalPhallacy 4y ago

Millions die every year for we are mortal and numerous. Thankfully, the world's population grew during the pandemic. 210,000 to 448,000 Americans die every year to preventable medical errors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#Annual_number_of_deaths_and_causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death#An... This is more people than COVID kills in the same time period, but strangely there's no panic about that. No mandates. No significant steps from any authorities to do anything about it. Perhaps because there's no money in that, unlike pushing a remedy for something that's not as significant as people feel. edit: Since HN is ratelimiting me and not letting me reply to the below, here's the reply I've tried posting after an hour of "slowing down": Checklists: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/checklists-can-reduce-fatal-medical-errors-19080 https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/checklists-can-reduce-fata... The same thing NASA uses to prevent human error: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19910001641 https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19910001641 Mandatory checklists would wipe out most of them, yet there's no mandate for them.

cableshaft 4y ago
What would be the mandate for user error (which is what 'preventable medical errors' boils down to), beyond an ongoing attempt to improve procedures in hospitals which I'm sure they're already doing, especially since the US is very litigious and they often get sued for malpractice. Humans are messy, can't hold all knowledge about everything in their heads at all times, and error prone. Unless you replace them entirely you're not going to be able to eliminate medical errors.
- Fomite 4y ago
  There are a staggering number of mandates and regulations around preventable medical errors. One that has been absolutely defining is CMS not compensating for healthcare-associated infections. Also, many hospitals view things like infection control or antimicrobial stewardship as cost centers, and they're not doing nearly as much as they can.
puffoflogic 4y ago
Hint: if you don't want to "slow down", just don't post anything dang disagrees with or might disagree with. Works every time.

calculatte 4y ago

With the way the numbers around Covid and Covid deaths were cooked, there is no way to determine how many died from Covid. Excess mortality is higher now than during Covid https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-higher-now-than-during-covid/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-hi... There is evidence of statistical lies perpetuated to benefit big pharma. - The extreme false positive rate of COVID testing - Blindly combining "of" and "with" Covid cases for cause of death based on those same broken tests. - Influenza, pneumonia magically took a couple of years off during Covid - PCR testing cycles at extreme highs When all of the broken testing was finally admitted and discontinued, were the previous misclassified deaths reinvestigated or reclassified? Of course not. The entire pool of data of Covid deaths has been poisoned. There is no interest in accuracy. But there does seem to be extreme interest in protecting the liability and profits of the pharma companies that coerced unproven, untested, ineffective "cures" that do not prevent infection, spread, or reduce symptoms.

AustinDev 4y ago
Just a meta comment. This exact comment 1 year ago would have been downvoted until it was dead. However, much of the evidence for this was available at that time. I sadly think we'll continue to see excess deaths climb over the coming years particularly in the US. I'm glad I only got the J&J shot way back when it came out and avoided 3+ rounds of Pfizer or Moderna primary and boosters.
- calculatte 4y ago
  It seems the only difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact is about 18 months now.
  - dzader 4y ago
    you need to get off the internet for a few hours a day buddy
  - Izkata 4y ago
    Depending on the exact claim it's often more like 12 months. A few even made it down to 6 months (affecting periods, for example) and I think one was as low as 2 months.