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SBF (and like half the people at Alameda) worked at Jane Street or other big name financial firms. They weren't ignorant of traditional finance.

by chc4 4y ago

factsarelolz 4y ago
Both SBF and the other person were glorified interns and got position based upon their parents network.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Doubt it, unless you have evidence otherwise. Jane St (unlike customer-facing finance firms, like Goldman Sachs) does not really engage in this style of nepotism hiring that I know of. More likely is that the child of prominent academics might actually be more intelligent than average themselves and certainly provided more opportunity to flourish.
  - factsarelolz 4y ago
    Could you detail SBF's experience that would have opened doors to him at Jane St without nepotism? I ask because I can't find any evidence to show how he was able to get into that position. Thanks for the guidance and I look forward to your reply.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      He went to MIT and interned there. I'm confused as to what you are asking - Jane St certainly hires plenty of people out of college not for nepotism reasons. The fact that he did not have a prior job before college is not evidence he was hired for nepotism. Let me guess - he also got into MIT through nepotism as well.
      - stefan_ 4y ago
        His parents are professors at Stanford. So yeah, of course he did.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Gotcha and thanks for being upfront about your reasoning. I'll let others decide on whether they find that reasoning convincing!
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        You "got" a different poster, though.
        eddsh1994 4y ago
        What was his GPA at MIT? Did his parents jobs get his exams marked higher?
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Can't tell if you are being earnest but as someone who majored in CS at a HYPSM, I can tell you there is literally no chance that this occured. I know kids who definitely got in because of parents money, but it certainly did not impact their grading.
        NtochkaNzvanova 4y ago
        I would exclude MIT from that list, but the rest of those schools basically have a huge reputation for grade inflation -- i.e., once you get in, you won't be given a bad GPA because you're paying so much. Grading people legitimately based on competence would piss of the parents/donors too much. Curious to hear your take on this.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        My impression is that grade inflation is definitely a thing, I am not so sure that it is for the reasons you suggest (pissing off parents/donors/people paying for degree). What grade inflation really means is that for many, if not all, majors at a school like Harvard, you can take a path of classes that will end up with you completing your major and having a high GPA. That said, there are certainly classes that will be much less nice to you when grading and have a self-selected group of students. My guess is that if JS has enough people from, say, Harvard, they will know the difference between a student who took hard upper level courses to complete their major vs. just the simple basics. In terms of why this grade inflation is so prevalent, one reason I think is that faculty want to have students in their courses/run a "superstar" course, and students select classes with the easiest grading policy. Schools like MIT (and Princeton as well) specifically combat this and so are known for grade deflation.
    - 22SAS 4y ago
      Most of JS's trading interns and new graduate hires, are STEM grads at HYPSM schools. SBF going to MIT gave him a big leg up.
    - zucker42 4y ago
      From what I've heard about Jane Street interviews from people who interviewed there for intern and new grad positions, they involve solving mathematical puzzles about probability, statistics, and betting. I know multiple people who were invited to onsite interviews, including in one case for a trading position, who were in progress on math and computer science degrees, and had no specific finance knowledge. I also know people who have done trading internships at other firms with no finance experience. It seems entirely reasonable to me that Jane Street would consider a Bachelor's degree from MIT in math or computer science, being clever, and a prior internship at Jane Street as qualification to work at Jane Street.
  - asdfqweqe12 4y ago
    Youre all over this thread defending Jane Street. > Jane St (unlike customer-facing finance firms, like Goldman Sachs) does not really engage in this style of nepotism hiring that I know of. Wow i'm sold.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      Because it's a comment thread I find interesting, I made 4 or so comments related to Jane St, 2 of which are replying to people replying to me. I promise you I have no affiliations with JS whatsoever, just think that there is lots of sloppy reasoning going on in this thread.
      - hnfong 4y ago
        > I promise you I have no affiliations with JS whatsoever Makes your claim unconvincing though. At least if you had worked there you might be in a position to make a claim either way.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Well I went to a major feeder school and know a lot of people hired by JS. The class of people hired by firms like Goldman Sachs is obviously nepotistic in nature and very different from the class that JS hires. A substantial portion of the GS mix is athletes & what I would call traditional Northeast elites, Jane St hired mostly out of the top physics, CS & applied math classes I was in. Beyond that, having parents who are prominent professors is nothing special at these schools and definitely would not give you pull at these institutions. Finally, Jane St has no incentive to engage in this sort of hiring because they are not customer/client facing.
    - naijaboiler 4y ago
      Hahahah its the funniest thing I ever read. Some people are so doggedly invested in the believing myth of meritocracy. Yeah right a private firms hiring is totally meritocratic.
    - unmole 4y ago
billsnow 4y ago
He was there for only three years, and at least ignorant about the finer points.
- psychlops 4y ago
  His point, I believe, it that it's traditional finance using crypto to do their usual thing. Pump and dump.
  - billsnow 4y ago
    That’s not what traditional finance does…
    - psychlops 4y ago
      Where do you suppose the term comes from?
      - billsnow 4y ago
        Ok fine that’s not what jane street does.
        psychlops 4y ago
        Fair enough, I know very little about Jane Street other than where they are located and that I'd never qualify to work there.
        ericd 4y ago
        (They're not located on Jane St)
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
spamizbad 4y ago
Makes me wonder what’s going on at Jane Street. How sure are we they’re above board?
- typon 4y ago
  This is what I have been thinking. This whole thing has soured in my mind: Jane Street, Effective Altruism. Crypto, VCs, Silicon Valley culture in general I already assumed are scummy.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
    You got it. That is the correct line to follow. Sequoia in particular must be heavily investigated.
  - neilparikh 4y ago
    > Effective Altruism The practical version of Effective Altruism for most people is essentially "if you're well off, you should donate a chunk of your income to buying anti-malaria bed nets/deworming medicine/direct cash transfers for the global poor". I don't see how that could "sour" in your mind, seems like a fairly unreservedly good thing. I want to point out that there are real people [1] being helped by Effective Altruism right now. Telling them "sorry, can't help you any more, some rich asshole in the US just committed a scam, and he claimed he wanted to help you too" just seems incredibly petty and cruel to me. [1] - This is also a group that traditionally doesn't receive much attention either.
    - freejazz 4y ago
      This is why so many people find EA annoying. People donated to malaria causes well before EA was a thing, but of course now, without EA, there's nothing.
      - hestefisk 4y ago
        I find it very annoying. Why I’ rely on the benevolence of a few rich people when you can do the same much more effectively with proper taxation and wealth redistribution.
mediaman 4y ago
I can't look at their balance sheet and conclude that they were anything but ignorant of traditional finance. He seemed completely unaware of duration risk, and it seems like they have never talked to an accountant or anyone who has even the slightest clue about what a balance sheet should remotely look like. SBF worked at Jane Street, but he must have been there in a capacity that insulated him from this sort of knowledge. At large firms such as that there are very specialized roles that juniors typically start within, where the visibility is fairly limited.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  They knew this balance sheet was bullshit. They were just trying to cover up the $10 billion "loan" they gave alameda after it blew up in the spring. I agree that alameda made mistakes that traditional funds wouldn't, but the balance sheet isn't one of them.
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago
  Or he thought he could get away with it and grow fast enough where it wouldn't burn him.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lancesells 4y ago
  You think this is ignorance? I know very little about finance or the technology of finance but this is pretty clearly fraud and criminal behavior. My only question is was he able to pay for his private jets or residences in FTT? He seemed pretty convincing to a lot of people so it would be interesting to see if everything was paid in his own made up currency.
  - monetus 4y ago
    I don't think ignorance and fraud are mutually exclusive. I think he has put both on display to a pretty significant degree, personally.
  - 4y ago
bogomipz 4y ago
Perhaps not ignorant but maybe inexperienced for the roles and responsibilities they assumed at their new company? This is from a piece about Caroline Ellison the CEO at Alameda: >"Before joining Alameda as a trader in March 2018, Ellison spent 19 months as a junior trader at Jane Street after graduating from Stanford University with a bachelor's degree in mathematics in 2016. In a podcast two years ago, Ellison explained that Jane Street was her first job out of college. A diehard mathematician and Harry Potter fan born of two economists, Ellison she hadn't wanted to go into trading but "just didn't really know what to do" with her life. > "She was persuaded to join Alameda by SBF, who also previously worked for Jane Street. When she quit Jane Street, Ellison said she felt bad for staying such a short amount of time. However, this feeling quickly dissipated when she arrived at Alameda and discovered that she had "kind of more trading experience than a lot of Alameda traders," anyway."[1] And similarly for Constance Wang the FTX CEO/COO: >"Constance Wang joined FTX as chief operating officer in the Bahamas in 2019. Initially, she was chief operating officer (COO) of FTX's crypto derivatives exchange. In January 2022 she was promoted as CEO of FTX digital markets, with responsibility for the Bahamas HQ. An org chart published by the Information puts her one level below Sam Bankman-Fried. >This looks like a big job. All the more so because Wang is only a few years into her career. Before she joined FTX, most of her time had been spent at Credit Suisse in Singapore. >Wang wasn't an MD at Credit Suisse. She wasn't even a director or associate director. She was an analyst and she worked at the bank for two years, first in KYC in the private bank and then in APAC risk and controls. It was her first job out of university. "Admittedly, Wang didn't go straight from Credit Suisse to FTX - there was an eight-month detour to Huobi Global, a crypto exchange in Singapore first. However, the fact that this was sufficient to land her a job in her late 20s running 'institutional clients servicing and operational procedure,' at a fund with $1bn of revenues last year, looks slightly questionable."[2] [1] https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/caroline-ellison-alameda-research-ftx-sam-bankman-fried https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/caroline-elli... [2] https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/constance-wang-ftx-credit-suisse https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/constance-wan...
- jnwatson 4y ago
  You can’t make this stuff up. This would make an amazingly funny movie.
MrMan 4y ago
prop trading firm and a sell side firm or an exchange are not structured the same way. its like calling zebra and deer and giraffes the same animal.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
do you mean they were knowingly manipulative of those who actually were ignorant of traditional finance, as a business plan of sorts?
saberdancer 4y ago
Did you read comments Caroline made on her blog/tumblr? Not sure of the timeline but she was asking why not double down on a 50/50 bet every time (if you lose) - you can earn "infinite" money but lose only your bet. I am not sure working somewhere means you are an expert in it. It's incredible these people managed to create a company size of FTX.
- jsemrau 4y ago
  > read comments Caroline made on her blog/tumblr? Isn't that the Martingale strategy? > It's incredible these people managed to create a company size of FTX. Didn't they got hundreds of millions in play money from their network (school friends). This worked while everything was going up and new cash was coming in.
  - DebtDeflation 4y ago
    >This worked while everything was going up "Never confuse being long in a bull market with genius." --John Bogle
- jonasdegendt 4y ago
  Rookie mistake! The trick is to double your betting amount every time you lose the 50/50, until you win, and then return back to your regular bet. That’s how you turn a profit. (/s)
  - throwaway777845 4y ago
- gruez 4y ago
  >Not sure of the timeline but she was asking why not double down on a 50/50 bet every time (if you lose) - you can earn "infinite" money but lose only your bet. I'm pretty sure you're referring to this tweet https://twitter.com/0xHonky/status/1591630071915483136 https://twitter.com/0xHonky/status/1591630071915483136 In which case she wasn't the person asking the question. Somebody else was asking it, and she was unequivocally saying that it wouldn't work.
jsemrau 4y ago
Being an entry level staffer is not the same as running a n-Billion dollar business. The higher you rise, the more important the role of governance, compliance, and risk management becomes. If you shortcut this you will miss an important part of "job experience"
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> worked at Jane Street or other big name financial firms. They weren't ignorant of traditional finance I was an options market maker. That taught me a lot about options but little about finance. The latter comes from curiosity and initiative, up to and including reading history books. Given SBF was post book or whatever, the ignorance isn’t surprising.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

SBF (and like half the people at Alameda) worked at Jane Street or other big name financial firms. They weren't ignorant of traditional finance.

by chc4 4y ago

SBF (and like half the people at Alameda) worked at Jane Street or other big name financial firms. They weren't ignorant of traditional finance.

factsarelolz 4y ago

Both SBF and the other person were glorified interns and got position based upon their parents network.

whimsicalism 4y ago
Doubt it, unless you have evidence otherwise. Jane St (unlike customer-facing finance firms, like Goldman Sachs) does not really engage in this style of nepotism hiring that I know of. More likely is that the child of prominent academics might actually be more intelligent than average themselves and certainly provided more opportunity to flourish.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  Could you detail SBF's experience that would have opened doors to him at Jane St without nepotism? I ask because I can't find any evidence to show how he was able to get into that position. Thanks for the guidance and I look forward to your reply.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    He went to MIT and interned there. I'm confused as to what you are asking - Jane St certainly hires plenty of people out of college not for nepotism reasons. The fact that he did not have a prior job before college is not evidence he was hired for nepotism. Let me guess - he also got into MIT through nepotism as well.
    - stefan_ 4y ago
      His parents are professors at Stanford. So yeah, of course he did.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Gotcha and thanks for being upfront about your reasoning. I'll let others decide on whether they find that reasoning convincing!
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        You "got" a different poster, though.
      - eddsh1994 4y ago
        What was his GPA at MIT? Did his parents jobs get his exams marked higher?
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        Can't tell if you are being earnest but as someone who majored in CS at a HYPSM, I can tell you there is literally no chance that this occured. I know kids who definitely got in because of parents money, but it certainly did not impact their grading.
        NtochkaNzvanova 4y ago
        I would exclude MIT from that list, but the rest of those schools basically have a huge reputation for grade inflation -- i.e., once you get in, you won't be given a bad GPA because you're paying so much. Grading people legitimately based on competence would piss of the parents/donors too much. Curious to hear your take on this.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        My impression is that grade inflation is definitely a thing, I am not so sure that it is for the reasons you suggest (pissing off parents/donors/people paying for degree). What grade inflation really means is that for many, if not all, majors at a school like Harvard, you can take a path of classes that will end up with you completing your major and having a high GPA. That said, there are certainly classes that will be much less nice to you when grading and have a self-selected group of students. My guess is that if JS has enough people from, say, Harvard, they will know the difference between a student who took hard upper level courses to complete their major vs. just the simple basics. In terms of why this grade inflation is so prevalent, one reason I think is that faculty want to have students in their courses/run a "superstar" course, and students select classes with the easiest grading policy. Schools like MIT (and Princeton as well) specifically combat this and so are known for grade deflation.
  - 22SAS 4y ago
    Most of JS's trading interns and new graduate hires, are STEM grads at HYPSM schools. SBF going to MIT gave him a big leg up.
  - zucker42 4y ago
    From what I've heard about Jane Street interviews from people who interviewed there for intern and new grad positions, they involve solving mathematical puzzles about probability, statistics, and betting. I know multiple people who were invited to onsite interviews, including in one case for a trading position, who were in progress on math and computer science degrees, and had no specific finance knowledge. I also know people who have done trading internships at other firms with no finance experience. It seems entirely reasonable to me that Jane Street would consider a Bachelor's degree from MIT in math or computer science, being clever, and a prior internship at Jane Street as qualification to work at Jane Street.
- asdfqweqe12 4y ago
  Youre all over this thread defending Jane Street. > Jane St (unlike customer-facing finance firms, like Goldman Sachs) does not really engage in this style of nepotism hiring that I know of. Wow i'm sold.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Because it's a comment thread I find interesting, I made 4 or so comments related to Jane St, 2 of which are replying to people replying to me. I promise you I have no affiliations with JS whatsoever, just think that there is lots of sloppy reasoning going on in this thread.
    - hnfong 4y ago
      > I promise you I have no affiliations with JS whatsoever Makes your claim unconvincing though. At least if you had worked there you might be in a position to make a claim either way.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        Well I went to a major feeder school and know a lot of people hired by JS. The class of people hired by firms like Goldman Sachs is obviously nepotistic in nature and very different from the class that JS hires. A substantial portion of the GS mix is athletes & what I would call traditional Northeast elites, Jane St hired mostly out of the top physics, CS & applied math classes I was in. Beyond that, having parents who are prominent professors is nothing special at these schools and definitely would not give you pull at these institutions. Finally, Jane St has no incentive to engage in this sort of hiring because they are not customer/client facing.
  - naijaboiler 4y ago
    Hahahah its the funniest thing I ever read. Some people are so doggedly invested in the believing myth of meritocracy. Yeah right a private firms hiring is totally meritocratic.
  - unmole 4y ago

billsnow 4y ago

He was there for only three years, and at least ignorant about the finer points.

psychlops 4y ago
His point, I believe, it that it's traditional finance using crypto to do their usual thing. Pump and dump.
- billsnow 4y ago
  That’s not what traditional finance does…
  - psychlops 4y ago
    Where do you suppose the term comes from?
    - billsnow 4y ago
      Ok fine that’s not what jane street does.
      - psychlops 4y ago
        Fair enough, I know very little about Jane Street other than where they are located and that I'd never qualify to work there.
        ericd 4y ago
        (They're not located on Jane St)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

spamizbad 4y ago

Makes me wonder what’s going on at Jane Street. How sure are we they’re above board?

typon 4y ago
This is what I have been thinking. This whole thing has soured in my mind: Jane Street, Effective Altruism. Crypto, VCs, Silicon Valley culture in general I already assumed are scummy.
- ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
  You got it. That is the correct line to follow. Sequoia in particular must be heavily investigated.
- neilparikh 4y ago
  > Effective Altruism The practical version of Effective Altruism for most people is essentially "if you're well off, you should donate a chunk of your income to buying anti-malaria bed nets/deworming medicine/direct cash transfers for the global poor". I don't see how that could "sour" in your mind, seems like a fairly unreservedly good thing. I want to point out that there are real people [1] being helped by Effective Altruism right now. Telling them "sorry, can't help you any more, some rich asshole in the US just committed a scam, and he claimed he wanted to help you too" just seems incredibly petty and cruel to me. [1] - This is also a group that traditionally doesn't receive much attention either.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    This is why so many people find EA annoying. People donated to malaria causes well before EA was a thing, but of course now, without EA, there's nothing.
    - hestefisk 4y ago
      I find it very annoying. Why I’ rely on the benevolence of a few rich people when you can do the same much more effectively with proper taxation and wealth redistribution.

mediaman 4y ago

I can't look at their balance sheet and conclude that they were anything but ignorant of traditional finance. He seemed completely unaware of duration risk, and it seems like they have never talked to an accountant or anyone who has even the slightest clue about what a balance sheet should remotely look like. SBF worked at Jane Street, but he must have been there in a capacity that insulated him from this sort of knowledge. At large firms such as that there are very specialized roles that juniors typically start within, where the visibility is fairly limited.

HDThoreaun 4y ago
They knew this balance sheet was bullshit. They were just trying to cover up the $10 billion "loan" they gave alameda after it blew up in the spring. I agree that alameda made mistakes that traditional funds wouldn't, but the balance sheet isn't one of them.
tick_tock_tick 4y ago
Or he thought he could get away with it and grow fast enough where it wouldn't burn him.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lancesells 4y ago
You think this is ignorance? I know very little about finance or the technology of finance but this is pretty clearly fraud and criminal behavior. My only question is was he able to pay for his private jets or residences in FTT? He seemed pretty convincing to a lot of people so it would be interesting to see if everything was paid in his own made up currency.
- monetus 4y ago
  I don't think ignorance and fraud are mutually exclusive. I think he has put both on display to a pretty significant degree, personally.
- 4y ago

bogomipz 4y ago

Perhaps not ignorant but maybe inexperienced for the roles and responsibilities they assumed at their new company? This is from a piece about Caroline Ellison the CEO at Alameda: >"Before joining Alameda as a trader in March 2018, Ellison spent 19 months as a junior trader at Jane Street after graduating from Stanford University with a bachelor's degree in mathematics in 2016. In a podcast two years ago, Ellison explained that Jane Street was her first job out of college. A diehard mathematician and Harry Potter fan born of two economists, Ellison she hadn't wanted to go into trading but "just didn't really know what to do" with her life. > "She was persuaded to join Alameda by SBF, who also previously worked for Jane Street. When she quit Jane Street, Ellison said she felt bad for staying such a short amount of time. However, this feeling quickly dissipated when she arrived at Alameda and discovered that she had "kind of more trading experience than a lot of Alameda traders," anyway."[1] And similarly for Constance Wang the FTX CEO/COO: >"Constance Wang joined FTX as chief operating officer in the Bahamas in 2019. Initially, she was chief operating officer (COO) of FTX's crypto derivatives exchange. In January 2022 she was promoted as CEO of FTX digital markets, with responsibility for the Bahamas HQ. An org chart published by the Information puts her one level below Sam Bankman-Fried. >This looks like a big job. All the more so because Wang is only a few years into her career. Before she joined FTX, most of her time had been spent at Credit Suisse in Singapore. >Wang wasn't an MD at Credit Suisse. She wasn't even a director or associate director. She was an analyst and she worked at the bank for two years, first in KYC in the private bank and then in APAC risk and controls. It was her first job out of university. "Admittedly, Wang didn't go straight from Credit Suisse to FTX - there was an eight-month detour to Huobi Global, a crypto exchange in Singapore first. However, the fact that this was sufficient to land her a job in her late 20s running 'institutional clients servicing and operational procedure,' at a fund with $1bn of revenues last year, looks slightly questionable."[2] [1] https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/caroline-ellison-alameda-research-ftx-sam-bankman-fried https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/caroline-elli... [2] https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/constance-wang-ftx-credit-suisse https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2022/11/constance-wan...

jnwatson 4y ago
You can’t make this stuff up. This would make an amazingly funny movie.

MrMan 4y ago

prop trading firm and a sell side firm or an exchange are not structured the same way. its like calling zebra and deer and giraffes the same animal.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

do you mean they were knowingly manipulative of those who actually were ignorant of traditional finance, as a business plan of sorts?

saberdancer 4y ago

Did you read comments Caroline made on her blog/tumblr? Not sure of the timeline but she was asking why not double down on a 50/50 bet every time (if you lose) - you can earn "infinite" money but lose only your bet. I am not sure working somewhere means you are an expert in it. It's incredible these people managed to create a company size of FTX.

jsemrau 4y ago
> read comments Caroline made on her blog/tumblr? Isn't that the Martingale strategy? > It's incredible these people managed to create a company size of FTX. Didn't they got hundreds of millions in play money from their network (school friends). This worked while everything was going up and new cash was coming in.
- DebtDeflation 4y ago
  >This worked while everything was going up "Never confuse being long in a bull market with genius." --John Bogle
jonasdegendt 4y ago
Rookie mistake! The trick is to double your betting amount every time you lose the 50/50, until you win, and then return back to your regular bet. That’s how you turn a profit. (/s)
- throwaway777845 4y ago
gruez 4y ago
>Not sure of the timeline but she was asking why not double down on a 50/50 bet every time (if you lose) - you can earn "infinite" money but lose only your bet. I'm pretty sure you're referring to this tweet https://twitter.com/0xHonky/status/1591630071915483136 https://twitter.com/0xHonky/status/1591630071915483136 In which case she wasn't the person asking the question. Somebody else was asking it, and she was unequivocally saying that it wouldn't work.

jsemrau 4y ago

Being an entry level staffer is not the same as running a n-Billion dollar business. The higher you rise, the more important the role of governance, compliance, and risk management becomes. If you shortcut this you will miss an important part of "job experience"

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> worked at Jane Street or other big name financial firms. They weren't ignorant of traditional finance I was an options market maker. That taught me a lot about options but little about finance. The latter comes from curiosity and initiative, up to and including reading history books. Given SBF was post book or whatever, the ignorance isn’t surprising.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]